How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

2021-07-056:59423166www.learning-to-see.co.uk

John Wooden died in 2009. But if you're a basketball coach today, you're still living in his shadow. And for good reason. Wooden's record as a basketball coach for UCLA remains unmatched. He was…

oil painting detail, orange rosesJohn Wooden died in 2009. But if you’re a basketball coach today, you’re still living in his shadow.

And for good reason. Wooden’s record as a basketball coach for UCLA remains unmatched. He was notorious for his attention to detail, down to training his players how to put on their socks and lace their shoes correctly. He wrote books that applied his winning formula on the court to life in general, and his TED talk of 2001, The Difference Between Winning and Succeeding, has over four million views.

His methods have been studied extensively by people who hope to replicate his success in other areas, but with mixed results. In fact, few manage to come close.

Why?

According the book Practice Perfect, most of Wooden’s imitators fail to recognise the most important factor that contributed to his amazing results:

His obsession with practice.

We’ve all heard the oft-quoted “10,000 hour” rule that Malcolm Gladwell borrowed from K. Anders Ericsson and then popularised in his book Outliers. If we want to get better at something, we need to do it a lot.

But that’s not even half the story.

Just doing something a lot will not guarantee improvement. Depending on the way that thing is done, it may actually have the opposite effect. Because the 10,000 rule, in the simplified form we usually find it in handy quotes in blog posts or on Facebook, misses the difference between performance and practice.

And that difference is key.

The difference between performance and practice

Performance is:

  1. The employment of a lot of different skills together, at the same time. If you’re painting, you’re having to think about values, brush control, colour, technique, composition, drawing – all together.
  2. Creating something finished. For us, that means a drawing, painting, or sculpture. That also means pressure, since we tend to judge ourselves by the results.
  3. Repeated mistakes. It’s too easy to fall into the same patterns, the same idiosyncrasies, when performing. Very often, that can mean repeatedly doing things in a way that doesn’t result in improvement at all. Think about drawing accuracy. If you repeatedly misjudge distances too large, but never check to see that you’re doing that, you will further ingrain the bad habit by doing it more often. You get better at doing something badly.

Practice is:

  1. Doing one thing at a time in a very focused way. Instead of trying to get the drawing and the colour right at the same time, you might be practising only judging distances by eye (which will improve your drawing accuracy), or mixing colour, or matching values.
  2. Done purely for the sake of improvement. The intended result is not a beautiful painting or drawing, it is improvement in the skills that the creation of a beautiful painting requires.
  3. Repeatedly doing it right. By using feedback to make sure that you correct habitual mistakes and practice doing things the right way, you ensure improvement over time.

Those short lists give us a good idea of the difference, but that’s not the whole story either. Because there are two ways to practice; one is extremely effective, the other much less so – but is the one most commonly done.

These approaches are scrimmage and drill.

The difference between scrimmage and drill

Scrimmage attempts as much as possible to replicate the conditions of performance, but under more controlled conditions. For painters, an example might be painting a small still life that you can complete quickly, or doing a block-in for a portrait.

But it’s not where you develop your skills. The big drawback of scrimmage is that, like performance, it allows you to persist in bad habits. Because, as with performance, you’re employing and integrating a lot of different skills at once. You don’t know what you’re doing right and what you’re doing wrong.

Drill, on the other hand, means isolating a specific skill – judging the distance between two points, say, or matching a perceived value as closely as you can – and practising it repeatedly, with feedback, so that you can see what you’re getting right and what you’re getting wrong.

If you practice matching values for a while, you’ll probably find – as I and many of the people I work with at Creative Triggers found – that you consistently estimate them too light. That’s a habit that you can correct, and that correction results in real improvement.

But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills.

Wooden used drill much more often, when his contemporaries were concentrating on scrimmage. Wooden only used scrimmage to evaluate the results of drill. So if you want to improve your painting, and you’re prepared to practice, you’d be well advised to eschew making paintings so much – even small, “practice” pieces – and drill instead.

But surely art is different?

You may be thinking that art is very different from sport, and Wooden’s example doesn’t travel well to our field. You might think that art springs from the soul, that you can’t practice inspiration, and that talent and practice are different things.

You’d be wrong. And unfortunately, you’d be preventing yourself from making progress with that mindset. I don’t want that for you. I want you to achieve your goals with your art, to realise your dreams, as much as I want to realise my own.

Practising drawing and painting obeys the same basic rules as every other human activity. Those rules are established by the way our brains work when we’re learning something new and developing our skills. Those rules are the same whether you’re learning to shoot hoops or create a beautiful composition.

Here’s an example a little closer to home.

How drilling composition improved my paintings

For five years, I didn’t paint.

There were a few reasons for that. We were about to adopt our first child (the first of two, as it turned out). The back bedroom in our small, two-bedroomed house just outside London that had served as my studio was surrendered to make room for the impending little one.

At the same time, my freelance work dried up and so did my wife’s. But the bills still needed paying.

So I went back to a full-time day job. I’d lost my working space and my painting time. The easel and paints were packed away, and we embarked on a wholly different journey. Three years later, just as the dust was beginning to settle, we adopted our second little boy.

The effect of all this on my painting was that I didn’t actually try to create paintings again until very recently – in fact, until I was made redundant last September from said day job and found myself with a little time on my hands. You could say that life has been interesting lately!

So I found myself with a little time to paint, and the living room now doubles as a studio space now and again. I’m back at the easel for the first time in over five years.

Can I still paint?

I expected to be very rusty when I first picked up a brush. I expected to struggle. But I was surprised to find that I paint just as well as I did before I stopped. In fact, I think I’m painting better. And I think I know why.

For the last five years, although I didn’t paint, I did get into a habit of drawing regularly. For much of that time, I was deliberately practising something very specific: composition. I was lucky enough to find a book that was filled with some very effective exercises designed to develop sensitivity to spacing, proportion and pattern – Composition, by Arthur Wesley Dow.

The Dow book exemplifies the concept of  drill. Each exercise isolates a specific area of composition and places emphasis on practising repeatedly to develop skill at it. The exercises are simplified. For months on end, I did nothing but simple line drawings of plants, and then took crops of those drawings and repeatedly refined them by tracing. I’ve done literally hundreds of these simple little drawings. I credit this practice with developing my sensitivity to spacing and proportion.

Composition practice drawing of hollyhocks

Cmposition practice drawing of hollyhocks

I also did some practice with line quality and value design (which Dow calls notan). One way I did this was by redrawing the same simple picture of a lily 100 times, in two values.

practice drawing of a lily, ink and brush

That’s drill, not scrimmage. Here are the specific skills I was working on:

  1. Motor control skills. Quite a lot of the practice I did was with a Chinese brush and ink. If you haven’t tried it, I can tell you it’s a really challenging medium to work with – way harder than oils to control. Creative triggers members are often surprised at how tough it is even to draw a straight line with a Chinese brush and ink.
  2. Design. Before all this practice, I used to think that I spent quite a bit of time thinking about the design of my paintings – despite being disappointed when they often didn’t come out well! I thought that considering the design of a painting before painting it was enough. I’d paint a few thumbnails, think about the values. But I hadn’t done any of intensive practice that stretched the skill itself. I hadn’t done any drill.

Now I have. So when I think about starting a painting, my more developed “design” mental networks come into play before I even pick up a brush. And when I’m sitting at the easel and painting, I don’t have to devote quite so much brain power to brush control or value design or proportion as I go along, because some of that processing has become automatic for me.

The practice has changed my brain.

Here’s a few of the things that came off my easel since I got back to painting again:

pink rose, oil on panel

orange roses, oil on canvas panel

Red roses, oil on canvas panel

I know I shouldn’t be surprised by the fact I can improve through drill. After all, that’s what the neuroscientists are telling us: That what we repeatedly do changes the wiring of our brains.

Still, when you see it happen, it is a little surprising. I haven’t been painting for 5 years. But in that time, I’ve developed my design skills to the point where I now think differently about picture making. And for the better. I’m not saying that I’m brilliant at either of these two things, by the way. Just that I’m better at them than I was five years ago.

What I hope you take from this:

The first thing I hope you take from this is that no matter whether you have the opportunity to devote all your time to your art or not, never stop drawing. Never stop. Because you don’t know when opportunity might find you again. And when it does, you’ll not only be ready for it, you’ll be further along.

The main point is this: If you want to get better, seriously better, try staying away from performance for a while. Constantly performing without ever practising is how amateurs approach things in other fields. Amateur golfers never drill, they just play. And being an amateur is fine. Painting for a hobby is fine.

But if you really want to improve, look at it like a professional. Even better, look at it like a professional sportsperson at the top of their game. They don’t just perform, they practice. They drill. And they know the difference.

When you’re thinking about practising, make sure you include these three things, and you won’t go far wrong:

  1. Isolate a specific skill.
  2. Incorporate a feedback mechanism. If you’re practising values, for example, practice matching local values and test your results. That will keep you from repeatedly practising doing something wrong.
  3. Drill more than scrimmage.

I’ve included the following quote in posts more than once before, and I’m including it again because it’s so true, and so relevant here. When in his senior years, world famous ‘cellist Pablo Casals was asked why he still practised every day. He said:

“Because I think I can see some improvement.”

Best wishes and thanks for reading,

Paul

Learn how to:

  • mix any colour accurately
  • see the value of colours
  • lighten or darken a colour without messing it up
  • paint with subtle, natural colour

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Comments

  • By TrispusAttucks 2021-07-063:3213 reply

    > But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills.

    This resonated with me as I watch my kids go through school.

    Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and double pluses. It seems so ridiculous. I'd rather them crush a worksheet of 20 problems that practices a single skill then 2 problems that try to include everything from reading to drawing just for a simple subtraction problem.

    • By kiba 2021-07-064:126 reply

      Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and double pluses. It seems so ridiculous. I'd rather them crush a worksheet of 20 problems that practices a single skill then 2 problems that try to include everything from reading to drawing just for a simple subtraction problem.

      The problem with these 20 problems of basically the same identical challenge is that it's actually less effective than intermixing of different kind of problems, at least according to learning science.

      You and I may prefer 20 problems that practice straight subtraction, but that's not what the science says is actually the most effective learning strategy.

      You want different kind of problems in a problem set. It shouldn't be straight subtraction, but also additions, word problems, and so forth. This creates a level of desirable difficulty, which embeds knowledge more deeply than something that is very easy to do by rote.

      • By Treegarden 2021-07-069:412 reply

        In reality the problem is more complicated and the issue is that the current media of teaching via worksheets and teachers is lacking and insufficient, which renders this debate obsolete. What you have is different parts, learning new stuff, practicing it, but also spaced repetition. Those need to be in balance with each other but also rely on cognitive overload, tiredness and motivation (among others) of the learner. So what you really need for a solution is software that replaces those work sheets and does a good job (as opposed to many of the current cheap learning apps) of giving you the right task at the right time. Eg. it knows that you have been drilling stuff and gotten good at it and so now its time for some more mixed stuff that could be paired with srs (stuff that needs refreshment). I think apps like kahn academy are good but could be improved and personally tried to build my own language learning flashcards app[0] after becoming frustrated with duolingo where I have a 2000 day streak.

        0 - https://ling-academy.com/ It's a bit of a mess. I found that its pretty hard to build a language app.

        • By mushishi 2021-07-0610:491 reply

          Cool idea, my first impression is that there should be some kind of mini-arcs or long phrases that make the content more digestible. What I mean is that now the speaker goes on and on, and the subtitles are abruptly changed to another set of words. As a learner, I would like to have better sense when the words will disappear. I noticed it's arbitrary Youtube content so it's hard.. A simple testable solution for arbitrary content: option to _automatically_ pause/slow down the video just a for second before changing to the next set of text. Another simple and stupid idea would be to show previous words below the the current context.

          In the long run usage of a particular user, maybe the app should not highlight words that it knows you have encountered in previous videos many times or if the system knows you have mastered that word -- in case the system is testing user, did not notice if it does.

          Btw. Not sure what is the difference between green and black colored words. (Don't know Spanish so hard to guess.)

          Also there's some typos at the landing page, at least these: "Activley", "wont be"

          Seems like a great concept, good luck :) (I don't find Duolingo that effective either.)

          • By Treegarden 2021-07-0611:24

            Appreciate the feedback! My biggest challenge is to polish features. I have taken out a few features from the app because they where buggy and would break. I always had some ideas and prototyped them in the app but then after trying it out and getting a feel for it, I would jump to another idea instead of polishing the prototype. I'm definitely gonna improve the youtube feature, especially the ui. Also, showing the previous subtitles in smaller font somewhere is a great idea! Thanks for that.

        • By abecedarius 2021-07-073:17

          This ling-academy looks promising and I like your philosophy. After playing with it for a few minutes, I looked for a way to create an account to save my progress -- is that not implemented yet?

      • By dataviz1000 2021-07-069:24

        Along the same lines, Alfred North Whitehead had a very similar approach to education and learning as a whole saying it is cyclic with one important stage being precision analogous to the idea of practice with a later stage of generalization analogous to the idea of performance.

        > Whitehead conceives of the student’s educational process of self-development as an organic and cyclic process in which each cycle consists of three stages: first the stage of romance, then the stage of precision, and finally, the stage of generalization. The first stage is all about “free exploration, initiated by wonder”, the second about the disciplined “acquirement of technique and detailed knowledge”, and the third about “the free application of what has been learned” [0]

        [0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/whitehead/#PhilEduc

      • By ipaddr 2021-07-064:362 reply

        You are combining too many things. Focusing on 20 simple with increasing difficult problems builds visual memory, pattern matching which is lacking with a few compounds problems.

        The science must be missing some inputs because the current theory is lacking.

        • By wisty 2021-07-065:042 reply

          The current theory isn't particularly lacking, the average teacher (let alone layperson's) understanding of it is lacking. Plus there's dozens of rubbish theories that are sorely lacking so you have to find the researchers that actually do solid research.

          IIRC (see the above, it applies to random comments on the internet) drill work is more effective (but feels less effective to both teachers and students) if it's mixed up with different topics or question types, kind of like how doing a kata is better than doing exactly the same punch 10x (obviously katas are not ideal either, at least not as the only tool).

          Really you need a bit of diversity, and IMO two of the big traps to fall into are overly homogenous drill work (which doesn't retain as well as mixed drills, but looks effective because anyone who doesn't eat their crayons can do it without thinking too hard) and one-off problems (do an assignment where you solve a heavily obfuscated problem once, then pretend that it's now something that students actually understand, when they've literally just answered one single question assuming they even did it themselves).

          • By stenl 2021-07-067:072 reply

            In first grade we were given a workbook for learning how to write the letters. There was one whole page of A, one page of B, etc. You had to write maybe 100 As in a row. The kids quickly figured out that the fastest way to do it was to first write the left slant 100 times, then the right slant 100 times and finally all the 100 crossbars. So yes, you do need a little variety to defeat such shortcuts.

            • By varjag 2021-07-068:32

              What a brilliant way to teach kids economies of scale.

            • By TrispusAttucks 2021-07-069:561 reply

              According to the article this is actually a really good way for kids to learn and improve. The point being that just practicing the lines is hugely important.

              • By TeMPOraL 2021-07-0610:55

                Exactly. That page full of A's, whether they "cheat" it or not, will teach the kids how to draw all lines that make an A. Repeat that with other letters, and then throw combination of different letters into the mix, which will force kids to draw one letter at a time, after they've already mastered all the component movements in isolation.

        • By diordiderot 2021-07-067:252 reply

          "The science is wrong because I disagree" - ipaddr

          • By harry8 2021-07-069:081 reply

            I'm not seeing any research linked. It will have to be pretty convincingly done too because we've seen a metric ship load of issues in psych research of late.

            I don't have an opinion on the issue at hand. "Because the science says" With nothing in support makes me really suspicious. It really starts looking like "Because $authority says so you may not question" Which is the opposite of what scientific inquiry is meant to be.

          • By dvfjsdhgfv 2021-07-069:062 reply

            They are not the only one, I see the same. Kids without math drills have problems in storing crucial bits of information in long-term memory and consequently fare worse at solving simple arithmetic problems than myself when I was much younger. I'm not talking about complex things but basic arithmetic, like multiplying digits, adding fractions or, more importantly, dealing with ratios. Drills give you a considerable advantage here.

            • By doix 2021-07-0610:031 reply

              I have another peice of anecdata with my parents/grandparents. They grew up in the USSR and went through school there, drilling (according to them) was extremely common.

              They can still remember some peoms verbatim over 70 years later (in my grandfathers case). And they still remember/understand pretty much all the math they were taught. When I was doing my Advanced Highers (final exams in Scotland) I was asking my parents for help and they could answer all the questions without looking things up.

              I looked up the exam paper[0] I sat, I'm pretty sure there's no way I'd get an A again if I sat it right now without studying for it. But I'm pretty sure my parents still woudl.

              [0] https://www.advancedhighermaths.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/201...

              • By gotorazor 2021-07-0618:58

                I had a bit of schooling in that kind of educational system (Asia) before continuing schooling in North America. I'd say that you there is no free lunch. You're always giving up something for something else.

                I had a job 10 years ago doing in-person training at a company trying to digitize their paper-based office for the first time. They were in a commodity distribution business, so while the math isn't hard, there is a lot of day-to-day arithmetic (conversion between unit of measure and price/unit vs total price) for all the employees from the warehouse guy to the sales staff.

                The system introduced a change in their workflow. Before in their old manual paper system, people just kind of put things on a truck and figure out later how much got shipped and how much to invoice a customer. The whole can be very hand-wavy. There was no live inventory system either.

                Digitization meant that sales have to write sales orders that had precise units to be sold. Based on inventory, they know how much they will actually ship and they know that down to the dollar. Everybody suddenly had to start being aware of the math involved in their work.

                It was kind of funny to see a bunch of blue-collar, ex-con, high school dropouts learning faster than all the college-education office workers. The college-educated guys were too drill-orientated and approached the work like the math worksheets that everybody is talking about. The ex-cons had a working relationship with the numbers on the screen and the things that are hanging off their forklifts. Many of the white-collar clerks had been getting by memorizing formulas. They had no idea what any of those formulas mean.

            • By kiba 2021-07-0613:53

              Sure, you can drill them. I am just saying you should intermix them with other problems.

              I am not telling you to do multiplying digit only 1 times. That would be silly. I would be telling you should mix up multiplying digits with other previously learned concepts, say 10 addition and 10 subtraction questions, and the rest can be 80 multiplying digit problems. I don't know the optimal intermixing ratio here, but it shouldn't be a straight 100 multiplying digit problems which all use the same algorithm to solve it.

              Drilling and repetition is good, but there's the danger of having illusory mastery because it's already there in short term memory. Your goal is to encode those skills into long term memory.

      • By kebman 2021-07-0619:562 reply

        > You and I may prefer 20 problems that practice straight subtraction, but that's not what the science says is actually the most effective learning strategy.

        Hi, I'm an pedagogue and a licensed teacher. Another way to phrase that, is that humans tend to find repetitive tasks overwhelming and boring. Got a load of dishes you have to do? I bet most people feel right at home in that gnawing urge to postpone that mundane and monotonous task. I mean how many times haven't you sat there with a really dull chore and started daydreaming until someone snapped you out of it?

        The fact is, humans need variety, but more importantly we need a sense of agency. You kinda lose that when you're forced to do something repetitive over and over, and so naturally it's not a very effective way to learn or teach.

        If you're faced with repeating something 20 times, even with slight variations; first off it's overwhelming, and second if you feel that it's forced on you, then you lose agency. In other words, you're no longer the owner of the task. In turn that means you're no longer in control, so why would you slave away for that "evil" tutor over there? This is why repetition isn't very effective pedagogically speaking, because worst case it can even create antipathy towards you or the task you're trying to teach.

        On the other hand, it's exactly repeating something over and over that makes you master it, though... But how can you master a thing when it's too bloody boring to learn in the first place? Enter motivational strategies! And tactics to heighten morale.

        This is explains why you may prefer solving 20 problems that practice straight subtraction, because you're already motivated for it, and then it's easy. But when you're dealing with an entire class of pupils, you have to make sure as many of them as possible feel the same way about those tasks, or they'll fall behind. And so, at the most basic level, teachers need to vary their approach to a topic in order to effectively teach it. This means finding new ways, new angles, to look at a problem, and make sure you get some variety in between, so the thing doesn't become boring. Meanwhile, if you already know that your pupils are very motivated, you can get away with more straight repetition.

        • By dionidium 2021-07-0712:09

          > But when you're dealing with an entire class of pupils, you have to make sure as many of them as possible feel the same way about those tasks, or they'll fall behind.

          One reason this topic is hard to talk about, I think, is that, "what is best for my kid" and "what is the best strategy for a roomful kids from various backgrounds" are often not the same thing; in fact, they can be in direct opposition to one another. Educators think about the latter, naturally, but parents think primarily about the former.

        • By kiba 2021-07-074:27

          My understanding is that it's not about motivation.

          It's not about whether it's boring or not when it comes to intermixing versus blocked practice.

          It's that intermixing require more thought and thinking rather than just following steps by rote.

      • By wirrbel 2021-07-0611:041 reply

        I am of course not an empirical scientist in that area but I tutored math middle school students when in High School. [Note: This was in Germany and not in the US so it wasn't 'common core']

        You see, the students who failed at the interleaved problems initially, were rocking it when I had them work through like 3 of these 20-similar problems worksheets before moving on to the 'pedagogically designed' problems.

        And epistemically I think it makes a lot of sense to train basics and build upon that.

        I think Math education could benefit a lot if we split the subject in two courses, 3h per week on drill (Arithmetics), 2h per week on the beautiful math (can also expose the student to axioms there, functions, mappings, etc, more complex problems and solving that with math, potentially with CAS support). Best separated with different teachers.

        Fact is, most high school graduates will find it challenging in their lives to apply the 'rule of three'. During the covid pandemic we have seen that members of the executive branch have no understanding of exponential growth (bad during the pandemic, but I wonder how the fiscal policy is affected by that??).

        Maybe we need to rethink mathematical education once again.

        • By stjohnswarts 2021-07-079:57

          I don't know this was how I was taught. Mind numbingly boring rote style in 1-6, them a mix of stuff like reading problems and assignments along with practice assignments, by high school it was fairly even mix of progressively harder problems mixed with "reading problems" and projects (geometry, trig, calculus, diffeq)

      • By interesting22 2021-07-064:391 reply

        This is very interesting and I'd like to share info about this with my wife, as we're approaching this challenge right now.

        Do you have any articles or references that you'd personally recommend, in order to learn more?

        • By SiVal 2021-07-065:121 reply

          Do yourself a big favor and read the book "Why Don't Students Like School?" by Prof. Daniel T. Willingham. He's a prof of psych at the University of Virginia specializing in the application of cog sci and neuro sci to K-12 education.

          I don't know who chose the title, but it doesn't describe the book, which is really a collection of articles about the results of experiments comparing various learning & teaching techniques. Only one chapter is about why children, who like learning some things, don't like school.

          Willingham publishes in academic journals and in journals for educators, so you can find other writings online. He tries to persuade teachers that so much of what the elite grad schools of education teach is intellectual fashion out of touch with actual cog sci findings, but all he cares about are the science experiments.

          • By TheOtherHobbes 2021-07-0618:10

            Huge upvotes for this. The book isn't just about learning, it's about how our minds really work - as opposed to how we think they work.

            It's as useful for insights into practical intelligence as it is for theory-of-teaching.

    • By analog31 2021-07-0612:531 reply

      Math teaching has never been successful. Nobody knows why we do it. The parents all learned it the old way, meaning that they got good test scores but did not retain any useful facility with math beyond their obligatory high school and college courses. A few people who managed to carry math to the level of being an art, like painting, probably can't tell you how or why that happened.

      My kids did lots and lots of drill. But no proofs.

      I struggled with math until we started to do proofs. Then it came alive for me. I loved sets. My school also used a series of textbooks in which some of the problems had no answer, and you were supposed to write "no answer." Those problems were a special rare treat that motivated me to do all of the problems.

      For most kids and their parents, math functions as some sort of diligence / obedience / IQ training that they hope will get them into a better college and job before it is forgotten.

      • By the__alchemist 2021-07-071:161 reply

        A Mathematician's Lament (A Mathematician’s Lament): https://www.maa.org/external_archive/devlin/LockhartsLament.... is an outstanding article on the topic.

        • By analog31 2021-07-071:49

          I wonder if a problem with math is that there are (at least) two sides to it: Practical and artistic. And I wonder if the practical or useful side of math could be taught today via computation.

          Even the useful side of math -- the stuff supposedly taught in service to the science and engineering courses -- is taught with a computer nowhere in sight. Yet people who use math in those fields, including myself, always do it with the assistance of a computer, whether it's to help avoid dumb mistakes or to automate tasks involving large amounts of numbers. And the physics problems that can really be solved with purely symbolic math are few and far between, and rather contrived. It actually leads students to believe that the formulas are false when applied in the real world.

          I don't think teaching computation would harm the handful of students who develop an interest in math as a liberal art. If they want to explore, they will, either on their own or with guidance. There's no reason why they can't be introduced to abstract math, and proofs, along the way.

    • By nyanpasu64 2021-07-064:163 reply

      I was taught math with the drill style. Being forced on a daily basis into repeatedly solving problems you struggle with, trapped with no ability to escape, by people with power over you (eg. parents), having your worth judged based on your ability to solve problems forced upon you, and once you learn a skill your parents find a new weakness to torment you with, is traumatic.

      • By foxes 2021-07-064:271 reply

        That is not a problem with the drill style per say but toxic teachers and parents. You can make someone drill without tormenting them for failing. I think doing drills is good if done in a supportive setting, but it is also and should not be the only way to teach.

        • By nextaccountic 2021-07-069:184 reply

          Do you know any kid that signed up for math drills? It's nearly always imposed by parents or teachers.

          • By throwyuno 2021-07-0610:46

            I loved math drills. In first grade we would get a sheet of simple math problems and the teacher would give us 5 minted to complete as many as possible. I was good at it, and it was one of my first experiences of competition and being better at something than my peers. I don’t know if any of that is a good thing, and it definitely would have sucked if I had been slow at math.

          • By tsumnia 2021-07-0614:46

            Funny enough, this is my current gripe with learning CS in K-12 settings. The mindset I have on it is "we're just teaching it to them at younger age because they can't say no".

          • By odshoifsdhfs 2021-07-0610:21

            My kid would be super happy with it. His teacher as a 'reward' for doing his language-related stuff on time/quicker, lets him do math worksheets

          • By Aunche 2021-07-0614:23

            I was certainly more excited by math drills more than attempts to make math "fun."

      • By SilverRed 2021-07-065:073 reply

        Seems like a pretty poor way to really understand math anyway. If you memorize some formula you may learn how to do a specific problem faster but if you teach kids to understand how the formula was built from first principals, not only can they solve the problem, but they understand how to build the solution from scratch rather than pulling a premade solution from the memory bank.

        Memorizing solutions isn't useful anymore. We have google to list out formulas. A deep understanding of problem solving is far more important and something you cant trivially search.

        • By TeMPOraL 2021-07-0611:12

          You can't understand a formula without repeatedly applying it to great many problems, playing with it until you get a feel for how it behaves. Without that, you'll only be "understanding" your own imaginary version of a formula, a simulation in your mind with no grounding in reality.

          Same with understanding anything else in life - you don't really understand anything until you get to the point you can, in your head, predict a specific outcome, test it, and be proven correct, repeatedly.

          (At some point you may learn to gain robust understanding purely from simulating things in your head, deriving insight from lower-level principles. But this itself is a skill, a hard one, which few people master. It's not something a random kid, or adult, can do.)

        • By JackFr 2021-07-0610:43

          The deep understanding comes after knowing the facts.

          At a low level, you can point out all the patterns that are in multiplication tables, but they won’t be remembered until the student has internalized the facts.

          At a higher level, teaching epsilon-delta proofs isn’t a good way to learn calculus. Memorizing the building blocks and the chain rule is.

        • By varjag 2021-07-068:381 reply

          Right now there are students who have trouble opening up algebraic expressions or forget to cancel negatives in multiplication while doing exercises on advanced concepts. All for lack of practice.

          • By bigbillheck 2021-07-069:391 reply

            Those kinds of kids were common 10, 20, 50, 100, and more years ago.

            • By varjag 2021-07-069:411 reply

              Now they are ubiquitous.

              Downplaying it to 'dumb ones' is not helpful when they can solve polynomials without much trouble but are getting burned on concepts that should have been drilled down properly in middle school.

      • By BoxOfRain 2021-07-0612:38

        That's more of a reflection on the people doing the teaching than the style of teaching itself I think. This is purely anecdotal but I absolutely hated most of my pre-university education as it felt like jumping through completely meaningless hoops. I'll still happily practice scales or musical fragments by rote on my guitar for hours on end though, and this is a very effective method for me. It took me a long time to figure out I actually love learning, it's just that there's a lot more to learning than the industrial-style process that goes on in the average British comprehensive.

        If a person's approach to educating their kids is coercive ("jump through our hoops or you'll be working at McDonalds your entire life") or downright abusive ("you're a worthless child to us if you don't meet this grade") then the results can be catastrophic. For every success story, this kind of maltreatment will produce many people who give up on learning altogether or drive themselves headfirst into mental illness. I definitely think history will judge this period as a bit of a dark age in education, the fact that people who've long retired still report exam nightmares says a lot about the completely arbitrary and needless pressure we put our children under.

        In my experience being "well-spoken" (ie having an accent that's fairly close to RP) and being quick at picking things up has served me far better than any qualifications I have, both in the tech industry and out of it.

    • By porb121 2021-07-0612:21

      > That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills.

      this is just not true. blocked practice (i.e. practicing the same task repeatedly) is generally worse for long-term retention than mixed practice strategies where you vary the practice conditions or interleave different tasks in practice

      e.g. if you go through 100 problems of 2 digit multiplication, you will probably have worse retention than if you went through 10 of those problems, then 10 division problems, then 5 word problems, then 10 3 digit multiplication problems, and so on, equating practice time

      drilling _feels_ like a really effective way to learn because you do better at it and quickly develop muscle memory or mental shortcuts, but your performance on practice tasks is really not a good signal of your actual learning or retention.

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275355435_Learning_...

    • By eloisius 2021-07-069:362 reply

      Resonates with me too. I'm studying Chinese full-time and the classroom format is extremely drill-heavy. Here's a sentence, now say it this other way, using this new grammar device that we just learned. Here's another, and another, and another. After that we _mostly_ rote memorize characters (mostly, because they do have fragments of meaning that you can reason about sometimes). We drill on reading and writing characters daily. There is little to no "creative" homework or classroom activities like writing a dialog and acting it out in front of the class, as we did in Spanish class when I was in high school in the States.

      At first I was afraid that this learning style would be ineffective. Foreigners here often malign the Taiwanese education system as full of rote memorization, drills, and testing. Yet, the average Taiwanese can put together functional English sentences. A great many of them can speak fluently, even if they've never gone to an English speaking country. That's a lot more than you can say for the Spanish-speaking abilities of non-Hispanic Americans.

      Drilling like this let's me build confidence, memory muscle, and trains you to quickly pattern match and respond without giving the logical part of your brain time to get in the way and start translating slowly. It actually works outside the classroom too, I'm repeatedly surprised how natural words or grammar I drilled in class feel when it comes up in daily life. I cannot imagine the American style of incorporating a bunch of other activities into the exercise would help at all.

      • By CorrectHorseBat 2021-07-0610:13

        Yes, some kind of drilling is definitely necessary, the issue is that traditional drilling is not efficient and there is so much more to language learning.

        I don't think traditional drilling doesn't work at all, it's just super inefficient and boring.

        That said, I also kind of feel that dialogue with other students isn't that useful.

        I don't know about English in Taiwan, but if it's similar to Mainland China then then many of them started with learning English when they were 3 or so. The level of English you get from that is rather disappointing.

      • By tasogare 2021-07-0610:321 reply

        > Yet, the average Taiwanese can put together functional English sentences. A great many of them can speak fluently

        Not true at all in my experience. I met only a few people there speaking English or French and all where young and most studied in a language department at university. There's surely a big divide along age categories and probably a North/South divide as I sometimes read people on the internet claiming Taiwanese are somewhat good in English, while I haven't seen that at all where I went (mostly Southern part).

        That being said I agree with the rest of your post. Anything trying to make learning Chinese fun is actually a waste of time, and rote memorization is extremely effective. In fact, it's one of the most effective way to learn vocabulary (Nation, 2001). I find it very sad that bad methods like Remembering the Kanji are hugely popular when they are in fact a waste of time. The amount of bad content on the internet is staggering. I think the biggest issue is that most people lost the willingness to put efforts in learning, and want everything immediately.

        As for learning Chinese, it also helps speakers of Chinese are usually very keen on correcting mistakes and teaching things even when not asked.

        • By CorrectHorseBat 2021-07-0611:331 reply

          > In fact, it's one of the most effective way to learn vocabulary (Nation, 2001). I find it very sad that bad methods like Remembering the Kanji are hugely popular when they are in fact a waste of time. The amount of bad content on the internet is staggering. I think the biggest issue is that most people lost the willingness to put efforts in learning, and want everything immediately.

          Are you talking about this book? https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/learning-vocabulary-in-...

          I haven't read the whole book, but quick skimming got me to this part:

          > The highest vocabulary test scores were from the small number of learners reporting mnemonic techniques. The most commonly used strategies were effective but not as effective as the lesser used visualisation, mnemonic, oral rote rehearsal and retrieval strategies. Clearly, strategy training in memory-enhancing techniques could have useful effects.

          I can't imagine learning Chinese characters without any form of mnemonics.

          • By eloisius 2021-07-0611:571 reply

            > I can't imagine learning Chinese characters without any form of mnemonics.

            Username checks out :). Have you learned Chinese? I'm not convinced that my method is the best by a long shot, but I don't use mnemonics. I've tried memorizing other things with tricks like the memory palace, and either I don't know how to do it or my brain is busted, but I've never been able to create a "palace" much less store information I want to remember within it. I recently read about the mnemonic peg system and thought it might be useful if I could use radicals as "pegs." So far I just haven't been able to employ any of these tricks to my advantage.

            My memorization routine (about 10 new words per day) is to write down a whole list ~30 words, writing the character and it's pronunciation (I use zhuyin). Sometimes I do this in class while we're going over the chapter's vocab. I set a timer for 5-8 minutes depending on how many new words there are, how "hard" some of them look at first glance, how many have unusual radicals I haven't used frequently, etc. Looking at just the pinyin or zhuyin I try to write them all down before the timer goes off. If I can't write a whole character, I at least try to write down some of the radicals, if nothing at all I just skip it and move on. Afterwards I grade myself and looking at the characters in my textbook again, I write a new list of just the words I couldn't write. I practice writing them several times until I feel like I have the hang of it. Then I test again. Repeat until I can write the whole list. After I can write them all, ideally, I would retest again after some time, sometimes I do. Unfortunately, I usually don't have enough time and I have just barely gotten them memorized before it's time for a chapter test and then a new load of vocab. Fortunately old words get rolled into new chapters and having to write essays and stuff gives me more practice after they've had a while to stew.

            If there is some One Easy Trick that I'm missing that would make my routine 10x more efficient, I hope someone can share it, because this routine is very tiresome and time consuming. I have played a bit with visualization, where I would close my eyes and imagine every stroke of a character without actually writing it. It works, but I need a really quiet environment for that.

            • By CorrectHorseBat 2021-07-0613:241 reply

              >Have you learned Chinese?

              Yes, and still am. Not really active anymore since I'm busy with other things. I don't read much, but I can read a book, albeit slow and with much difficulty. Writing I do even less, and handwriting I never really did apart from tests and filling in forms. Speaking and listening I do every day. After a while I just decided to not focus really much on handwriting because it easily takes the most effort for something I actually barely use.

              I've played a bit with memory palaces for fun and found them to be effective, but really not for Chinese Characters. I mostly used my own flashcards with Anki. I used pictures and tone colored characters to help. That worked fine, but making the flashcards also took a lot of time so it wasn't really perfect either. Having many synonyms also complicates the whole ordeal. But overall spaced repetition really, really helps with managing lots of vocabulary. You can have a deck of several thousands of words without too many issues. If you find words hard to remember it's also OK to just delete them (Anki also helps with this by automatically labeling cards you often fail as leech).

              The mnemonics I use are the "build in" ones in the characters, maybe you already do this by yourself and actively learning them won't change too much. Nearly all characters have some meaning and/or pronunciation component hidden in them which can help you remembering them, or guessing their meaning or sound when you first encounter them.

              I don't really think about radicals since those are just arbitrarily chosen components used only for paper dictionaries (and who wants to use those in the age of smartphones...). Some random examples of interesting components: 疒, is a character that is not used anymore (I think) but it means disease and if any character has this component you can be very sure it's some kind of disease.

              月 is a tricky one. It's moon and it often really doesn't make sense in words until you know that 肉 is often corrupted into 月. The 月 in 脑 doesn't mean moon but meat/flesh.

              Some characters change depending on where they appear as components: 水/氵, 人/亻.

              I like to use the Outlier Linguistic Dictionary on Pleco for looking up how characters are build up and see if it can help me remembering the character. I find little stories help me to remember words/characters. A character I forgot how to write and just looked up: 虹 (rainbow). It' made of the component snake/insect/worm because the ancient Chinese thought it looked like a snake in the sky. 工 is there for sound because gong/hong sound similar. Or 取 (take/get/fetch), it's literally a hand taking an ear.

              I don't think mnemonics is the One Easy Trick that will make your routine 10x more efficient, but depending on how you learn now it could really boost your efficiency. If you're not using any form of spaced repetition yet I think that really could be it.

              • By eloisius 2021-07-0614:21

                Thanks a lot for the advice! I misused “radical” before but actually meant components, not the one arbitrary radical. Remembering characters as a block of components definitely helps. I think that would fall under the idea of “chunking” that memory experts talk about. Sometimes I remember a character on the first go because it’s a combination of components I’m very familiar with. I haven’t checked out the Outlier dictionary but I’m going to now. I often go looking at the character components to help me remember them, but better composition that Unicode data would but great.

                I use Pleco flashcards to do spaced repetition. Not sure how it compares to Anki, but it takes almost no effort to create new cards, and that’s good for me because I can easily get sucked into fiddling with tools instead of using them.

    • By MisterBastahrd 2021-07-066:34

      When I was in middle school, we used the Saxon method of learning math. Every lesson set contained new concepts AND forced students to answer questions to old concepts. By the end of the year, we were fluent in all the concepts regardless of the last time they were taught in class, because we were constantly forced to solve equations from all parts of the book. We all loved that approach because it kept us in practice.

    • By todd8 2021-07-0710:08

      > Math used to be taught with more drill style.

      This comment has engendered a lot of responses. Some arguing a position on personal experience and others arguing the supposed science of learning. A different and perhaps useful way to look at this is to consider how outcomes differ between large groups of schools around the world following different strategies for teaching math.

      The Program for International Student Assessment does world wide testing of 15 year olds in mathematics (and other subjects as well). The evidence suggests that whatever the US is doing isn't working. The USA ranks 25th in 15 year olds' mathematical ability with overall scores far lower that many other countries.

      Unfortunately, I can't read Mandarine, Japanese, Korean or Estonian so most of the effective text books (based on the PISA student scores) are inscrutable to me. However, Singapore's students have always scored near the top in math (second place in the most recent tests) and their text books are in available in English.

      I used Singapore math books to help my daughter improve her math after her school switched to Everyday Mathematics, a typical US math program developed at the University of Chicago. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good.

      The Singapore Math books are quite small and printed in black in white. They introduce the concepts with diagrams, etc. and have a set of easy introductory exercises to make sure the students understand the concepts. The books then have harder problems using the concepts and include word problems. The focus is on learning and practicing the techniques of mathematics. In Singapore Math, there is rote learning going on; in Everyday Math there is a kind of impressionistic emphasis where alternative approaches are encouraged, unusual methods of computation are introduced, inefficient solutions are treated as just as valuable as better approaches, and calculators replace fluency with basic operations.

      I've read the research paper the Everyday Math web site uses to justify the principles underlying the program. It's garbage and not any sort of science of learning. It even cites Knuth's Art of Computer Programming: Searching and Sorting as justification for introducing multiple non-standard ways to perform subtraction, multiplication, and division to elementary school children. This is completely ridiculous.

    • By btkramer9 2021-07-0615:09

      I've noticed something similar in University that was very frustrating for me.

      Freshmen and Sophmore year all math classes had tens or hundreds of problems that get progressively harder and bring out every corner case e.g. take then derivative of x^2 then 2x^2 then x + 2x^2 then sqrt(x) + 2x^2 + 3x^3. Eventually you could derive the most archaic equations

      Junior and Senior year Engineering homework is like 2 Epic questions with 10 parts that feed into eachother. I would have learned more and been more confident if they gave like 10-20 starter problems and then one final epic one at the end.

      I feel like this is similar to the story of a pottery class having half the class make as many items as possible while the other half had to make just 1 perfect piece. The group that was targeting quantity actually produced better pieces then the group that was targeting 1 perfect piece

      edit: typo

    • By grecy 2021-07-069:231 reply

      > But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills.

      When you sign up to become a snowboard instructor in Canada they basically say "You should already be able to snowboard. We're not going to teach you that. We're going to teach you how to teach".

      As you move up the levels, you spend more and more time on pedagogy (teaching other teachers).

      Virtually all of it is drills - breaking down a small skill into an exercise or challenge or "do this 100 times before you get to the bottom" - then you "put it all back together" and ride.

      I can teach someone in half a day what took me a month to teach myself when I learned with no instruction. Drills are an awesome way to teach & learn

      • By smw 2021-07-0614:031 reply

        Any chance you know of a decent video showing how to teach someone to snowboard? (or ski?) I'd love to understand the best way to do that.

        • By grecy 2021-07-0622:44

          I've never seen a video that actually lays it out.

          The course to be a level 1 instructor (the lowest level) is three days intensive.

          Level 2 is four days.

          Level 3 is a five day course, plus separate two day exams (on and off snow).

          Level 4 (highest level).. well, I'm not there yet, it takes most people three years to do all the training and pass all the tests.

          For virtually everyone you have to snowboard/ski full time (100+ day seasons) working on your technique and teaching at least every day for about ten years to pass level four.

          The teaching isn't something you can learn from a couple of hour video.

    • By Zababa 2021-07-069:40

      When I was in school we usually had at first some drill exercises, and then at the end some bigger problems. I think it was a nice balance, and the problems acted a bit like a reward.

    • By dr_dshiv 2021-07-064:31

      We made factflow.io as a side project to help parents drill with their kids. I found it useful with mine, anyway. It's free.

    • By danielheath 2021-07-066:55

      There's a big difference between the kind of learning that's effective in going from zero to knowing basics VS the kind that's effective in going from basics to mastery.

      I don't think drill is an effective method for early-stage learning, because you don't have the mental framework to hang the new knowledge off yet.

    • By dalbasal 2021-07-0611:30

      >> Math used to be taught with more drill style.

      There are many ways to suck. We tend to think in folksy wisdom: simples rules, simplifications, generalities. Practice makes perfect. 10k hrs. Problem solving. Etc. Often, we bounce back and forward between one such slogan and another.

      Folksy wisdom requires folk to be wise. You can't just distil it into a statement and run with that. A great instructor might be extremely focused on drill X or exercise Y. In reality, X or Y outside the greater context is not the same.

      The 10k hrs "rule" is a good example. I reckon I'm closing in on 5k hrs of chess. I'm not very good. I could have probably improved more than I would be with just 500 hrs training on a team, with an instructor, game analysis, tactic training, competition, etc. 5k hrs of bullet while on the toilet is not that.

      Now... I'm not saying that the book does claim that playing 10k hrs of ultra-casual chess while on the toilet leads to mastery. You need more context. Drill & Scrimmage, in this article's terms. "Deliberate practice" in Anders Ericsson's. Competition in other's terms.

      No matter what though, I think that the actual formula is not expressible. There will be a way of sucking while still ostensibly following the formula. You need the subjective human element. A person, training themselves or others who is focused on the goal of improvement, with the methods used as tools.

      A lot of canonical examples like sports, art or whatnot us an "art & science" adjacent terminology.

      TLDR, you'll also find plenty of example of rampant suckage and plateaus using drill oriented methods of teaching.

  • By brudgers 2021-07-064:255 reply

    The premise of Wooden's methods is that the players already have a lot of experience playing basketball. Many many games by the time they got to UCLA. Informal and formal.

    And that's my caveat for this as advice on painting. If a person doesn't already have a history of painting, by which I mean starting and completing paintings as paintings, no amount of drill is going turn them into a painter. The willingness to execute paintings has to be there.

    • By temp234 2021-07-065:554 reply

      Does anybody have any reading recommendations or thoughts on the topic of how people _with_ drilled or otherwise refined skills can turn into people who come up with and complete mature creative projects? In creative contexts I know a lot of people who get stuck on just drilling their skills forever or who want to be mature creative project-completers but mysteriously aren't getting it done. I've read a lot about how people get world-class good at things ("10k hours") but I don't think those books explain why one person successfully completes a unique comic, album, short film, or novella and another person struggles with that goal all their days, either only producing derivative work or never completing their work. Some of the focus on "10k'ing" your way to world class skill feels like a distraction from developing as an independent thing-finisher. Some incredible creative work has been completed by people with decent-but-not-world-class skill.

      • By chris_st 2021-07-0614:03

        This question came up in a guitar discussion group I'm part of. Someone who was really good at the drills wasn't happy, because they could kind of only do the drills. You have to perform eventually, which for painting is finishing paintings, musicians performing entire pieces, etc. And I think that's a beginning towards an answer to your question: find something in your hobby (or job!) you love and do that as a performance. Drills are there to serve the eventual performance, they're not an end in themselves.

      • By mabub24 2021-07-0610:501 reply

        You are relatively correct. The 10k "rule" and other general guidelines are just that --- guidelines for something that often bucks guidelines and is better for it.

        3 things an artist make:

        1. Finishing and finishing often. You should not be making the same thing all the time, but you should be consciously iterating in any direction you like as long as you are still finishing. Great painters, writers, musicians, are constantly making stuff, you only see the polished stuff that ends up through the filter.

        2. Studying the great works in whatever your chosen field/style/genre. Know the "rules", the normal directions on the map, before you break them and decide on a shortcut or to buck convention all together. All great artists, even the enfant-terrible avant-garde artists, are extremely knowledgeable in art-history in their chosen field and can explain extremely precise opinions on the merits of one artist or movement. Most postures of naiveté are just that: posturing. Great artists know their stuff.

        3. Surrounding yourself with other artists. You need people who will look at whatever you finish and tell you about it. Hopefully, these people should be as interested in good art as you, and as well versed or more well versed in art history as you. Engaging in communities of artists will make your imagination and creativity soar.

        You absolutely need 1 and 2. You can get by without 3, but you will likely never achieve true greatness without it.

        Everything else after that is luck.

        • By noahbradley 2021-07-0611:593 reply

          I'd somewhat change #1 to "starting and starting often." I see far, far too many art students fall into the trap of wasting hours finishing work when they'd be better off starting more pieces.

          • By SamoyedFurFluff 2021-07-0612:28

            I think “finishing often” means precisely that students can’t be spending too long finishing work. They have to stop and move on ASAP so they can finish again. I think there’s importance in finishing vs starting; it’s easy for creatives to get stuck starting a project and never learning how to complete.

          • By mabub24 2021-07-0612:12

            Definitely. I think were we to rewrite #1, we could say:

            1. Start often and finish often; do not be afraid to abandon something that is not working. Learning what is not working will come from starting and finishing more often over time, along with reflecting on the work you have done. This is where the benefits of #3 come into play. A good community will not only praise your work, they will tell when something isn't working or doesn't work.

          • By brudgers 2021-07-0613:51

            How much gets finished is a matter of commitment to working more than a matter of ambition.

            The wasted hours are the hours that they are not working on the thing. One hundred hours is only a bit more than four days...and if you use both hands, barely more than two.

      • By brudgers 2021-07-066:272 reply

        For art, it’s not skill or technique that makes someone an artist. It is simply the terrifying decision that what you make is art. Terrifying because the only gatekeeper to being an artist is you. Declare yourself an artist and you are. Call what you made art and it is.

        • By chris_st 2021-07-0614:04

          Yup. When I was painting, I spent some time thinking about what it "meant" to be an artist. I finally decided that an artist is just executing a vision in some particular medium.

        • By blindmute 2021-07-0615:331 reply

          It is however skill and technique that in large part makes someone a good artist. Like it or not, art is a physically skilled medium.

          • By brudgers 2021-07-0616:451 reply

            There is no such thing as good and bad artists. That’s what makes the decision terrifying.

            • By blindmute 2021-07-0619:271 reply

              There definitely is such thing, and claiming otherwise is a weird, very recent trend.

              • By brudgers 2021-07-0620:37

                Van Gogh is why there aren’t. There are establishment artists and folk artists and lots of oblique trajectories off that axis but that’s not good and bad.

                Or as Harry Truman opined. “If that’s art, I’m a Hottentotte.”

      • By egypturnash 2021-07-0615:40

        I got from “I draw isolated images” to “I draw comics” via the middle step of “I drew a Tarot deck”. I had to figure out a lot of shit about managing long projects that cannot be completed in a single day to do this. Tables to help me see at a glance what was available to work on, at what stage. Ways to think about coming back to the project again and again.

        Once I had that done I could tackle stuff like “telling a story” which is a whole other kettle of fish.

        Ask yourself what the shape of a finished larger thing is. How can you break it down into pieces about the same size as doing some of the drills you’re used to? What are the parts of it that require new kinds thinking and working? Make time to do that.

        Take examples of stuff you want to be making and break it down. For instance I found it a useful comics-making exercise to take a short story by an artist I liked and write one sentence describing what happens on each page. That got me thinking about how much story could easily fit on one page.

    • By arkj 2021-07-0613:50

      The will to do the drill will bring the willingness to execute.

      I am not a painter but I followed a pure drill approach to teach html/css/javascript to 12 of my operations/monitoring team members (11 males 1 female, aged 24-27) who lost their job during start of Covid.

      None of them had any background in programming or engineering, 3 of them dropped out after two weeks.

      All those who went through the drill got jobs as developers. 7 as react developers, 1 test automation and 1 script developer.

      All I did was ensure the drill and motivate them not to give up. They were all from very poor families so the motivation part was easy - hope of a better life at the end of drill.

      The mantra is, don’t fool yourself, type it, clock the hours and don’t miss the meeting.

    • By rahimnathwani 2021-07-065:061 reply

      The 'wax on, wax off' drill worked for Daniel Laruso in The Karate Kid.

    • By khazhoux 2021-07-066:01

      I think you're extrapolating his advice into something it's not. He is advocating a way to improve (by focusing on narrow tasks and skills), and he never says this will turn your into a painter.

      But if you are a painter (or whatever) then don't always be in "performance" mode, because that limits improvement.

    • By runevault 2021-07-065:03

      I think the key is that you have to spend some time doing the entire thing, but you have to be willing to go back and rework your fundamentals in smaller chunks (examples from the article being anything from composition to eyeing distances to color mixing).

  • By mch82 2021-07-065:083 reply

    > I paint realism in oils, mostly still life.

    I showed my grandma (98) a photo on an iPad. Her immediate reaction: “there’s no reason to paint realism anymore”. The method described in this article might work for realism in oils, but please don’t accept it as the exclusive way to create art.

    Art is about understanding the tools you’re using to create (for example how paint mixes, moves, dries, interacts with a surface), then choosing which tools to use and how to use those tools to convey an experience to an audience. Art is about experimentation, exploration, communication. Art is about studying & talking with other artists to learn how they work, the processes they use, how they solve problems; sometimes copying them and then extending beyond.

    My point of view on this developed as I studied art in high school, through AP art, and then minored in fine art in college alongside my engineering degree. Plus many hours painting with my grandma and my mom.

    • By khazhoux 2021-07-065:59

      > The method described in this article might work for realism in oils, but please don’t accept it as the exclusive way to create art.

      The method in this article applies universally to any art, music, any creative endeavor, and frankly even non-creative endeavors.

      It can be reduced to this: take time to practice, improve, and eventually excel at specific skills/techniques that comprise your craft, with no regard for any sort of big picture during this focused practice.

    • By tweetle_beetle 2021-07-067:391 reply

      > Art is about studying & talking with other artists to learn how they work, the processes they use, how they solve problems;

      Everything else makes sense to me, but isn't this a bit narrow? It implies that all art is the search for some higher truth, and that it can only be achieved as a communal effort. This academic, analytical approach would seem to fit your personal art career and that of many artists important to at history. But surely there is still artistic truth in the individual practising and experimenting for themselves, outside any scene or context. There are also examples of people doing this who are considered important to art.

      • By mch82 2021-07-0615:50

        You’re right. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.

    • By test_epsilon 2021-07-065:231 reply

      What were the remaining reasons to paint realism after relatively cheap color photography came about ~100 years ago and before the iPad was made, out of curiosity?

      • By thatcat 2021-07-0612:01

        There wasn't any really, surrealism and abstract art developed slightly before that

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