AI is making us work more

2025-10-2115:19228256realm-hugo-9f14f6.gitlab.io

How tools that were supposed to free us up to find meaning work have exacerbated the rat race.

I was listening, recently, to an episode of The Pragmatic Engineer podcast with Armin Ronacher, and something he said really resonated with me. He pointed out how paradoxical it is that AI was supposed to free us and allow us to work less yet, somehow, we find ourselves working more than ever before (timestamp).

I have seen the same trend in my own work patterns. This increase in work is not necessarily in the sense of being busier because there’s more work to do. Instead, it manifests as a psychological compulsion to keep going. The very existence of these hyper-capable tools seems to have created a new kind of pressure, an existential duty to keep working, to keep driving the machine that never sleeps.

The 996 concept - working from 9AM to 9PM, six days a week - used to only be associated with Chinese tech companies, having been championed by the founder of Alibaba, Jack Ma. The rest of the world, however, used to see it as nothing more than an extreme, sustainable model of hustle culture.

In 2025, however, there have been several reports of this (toxic?) work culture migrating west.

According to a recent Wired investigation, AI start-ups in Silicon Valley have begun to adopt 996-style work schedules. The rationalisation, of course, is “to stay competitive”. Leaders at these companies believe that with things moving so fast, especially in the AI space, and with developers having access to tools that can keep going so long as there’s a human there to steer them, people must worker harder to keep up with that. It has become not at all unusual to see job postings that make it clear to prospective hires that they should look forward to long, gruelling hours.

Throughout human history, the natural constraint on work was always human fatigue. We stopped working when we were tired. And, we took time to rest because our minds and bodies needed to recover.

However, the introduction of generative AI and agents fundamentally shifts the status quo. These tools never tire, never switch off, and never lose motivation. even as you rest, the tool keeps running, always available to generate ideas, code, text, designs, etc.

As a result, a new psychological loop forms:

“Every moment I don’t spend prompting, I’m falling behind.”

The system insidiously guilts you for not leveraging it constantly. Allowing AI to sit there, just waiting, feels like a waste. It’s subtle, but corrosive. Any downtime becomes a missed opportunity, and rest turns into inefficiency. Within this framework, leisure becomes a moral failure.

Of course, this is not an entirely novel development.

From lamps to lightbulbs, and now with LLMs, certain human advancements have had the capacity to transform the nature of work. This transformation comes in the form of leverage, allowing us to do more, to transcend limitations, and manifest more than we ever could. In the case of the aforementioned illumination technologies, people who had to set their tools down at sundown because it was now too dark to work could now go on well into the night.

And, with that came a subtle shift as “can work” transformed into “should work”. Such is the nature of advancement - recently acquired luxuries quickly transform into necessities, and pushing our newfound capabilities to their limits becomes an expectation.

With this, the 996 culture re-emerges, not because someone imposed it but because the tools themselves, and the culture surrounding them, make rest feel like lost potential

“One of history’s few iron laws is that luxuries tend to become necessities and to spawn new obligations.” - Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind Book by Yuval Noah Harari

The Korean-German philosopher, Byung-Chul Han saw this coming. In his book, The Burnout Society, he argued that modern work culture replaced external oppression with internalised “self-discipline”. We don’t need anyone shouting orders at us anymore. Instead, we do it to ourselves in the name of “productivity”, “passion”, and “self-actualisation”.

AI amplifies this dynamic. It extends what Han calls “the excess of positivity” - what I would call the tyranny of can - which is the idea that we can always do more, and therefore must.

Possum, ergo debeo.
I can, therefore I must.

There is no external whip required here. Just a quiet, internalised command: the machine can keep going, so why can’t you?

The recurring narrative within the tech community is mostly the same: infinite tools + infinite leverage = infinite potential. But, I find this to be a corrosive mentality with potentially devastating effects on our psyches.

Where feeling tired used to be a signal to rest, now it’s a sign of weakness. Every break you take feels like a gap in your potential productivity.

What we become, then, is our own taskmasters. From the moment we wake until our heads hit the pillow in the evening, we must make use of every available moment. We internalise the myth of this infinite potential and, under the guise of our own search for freedom, we exploit ourselves, putting constant pressure on ourselves to prompt, iterate, and improve. All to keep up with a machine that never sleeps.

Sadly, as a recent NextGen Hero analysis pointed out, this “hyper-productivity loop” is self-defeating. As burnout rates climb, creative output falls, and the majority of teams working 996 often become less instead of more innovative when compared to balanced ones.

And, as the machine continues to improve, so too does the baseline expectation of what you should get out of it. What once looked like “good output” becomes “not enough”. We struggle to improve our prompts, and mould the deluge of mediocre output into something useful.

Meanwhile, as a consequence of how the loudest proponents of this technology speak about it, we absorb the belief that we can (and should) be orders of magnitude more productive, we can (and should) build lucrative businesses, and we can (and should) multiply our abilities with AI tools. Any kind of doubt, scepticism, or negativity is shunned. Any failure on your part to use AI tools to elevate yourself is, at best, a skill issue and, in the worst case, stubborn refusal to embrace a revolutionary technology.

In such a world, rest itself becomes an act of rebellion. If AI gives us near-limitless productive capacity, the truly radical act might be to not use it at all. By setting realistic targets for ourselves, and putting up boundaries, we can slow the erosion of our humanity.

Similarly, AI creates nigh-infinite consumption potential. OpenAI’s Sloptok can generate endless content, which could just as easily trap us in a Sisyphean-loop of consuming limitless content.

In itself, saying “enough” might be a kind of innovation.

Because, ironically, most research supports the idea that innovation and creativity emerge from reflection not exhaustion. Our best ideas usually come not from being “on” all the time, but from being free enough to ponder and let our minds wander.

The way I see it, this is ultimately a story about culture.

Tools don’t demand work; people and systems do. The machine doesn’t care whether or not you sleep. What keeps us awake are the stories we tell ourselves about what it means to be “productive”.

So, maybe, the challenge of the AI era isn’t just learning how to leverage these tools. It’s learning to live with them in a healthy way that doesn’t allow them to enslave us. And, as I will explore in the second part of this series, it’s also knowing when and how to use them in a way that doesn’t diminish our efforts.

Because, just as the light bulb extended the day, AI is extending the workday. The question is whether we’ll allow it to extend the night, too.


Read the original article

Comments

  • By everdrive 2025-10-2116:0414 reply

    I was never excited for automation. Automation doesn't mean we do less. It means that we do as much work, and now also the work has a higher complexity ceiling; you need to understand the systems that are being automated, and need to maintain the automation. More things are possible, but everything is more complex, and of course, you still need to work 40 hours a week. Products don't get better either, but that's more of a "shareholder value" problem than it is a specific technology problem.

    And yes, I only talked about automation, but the same high-level issues apply to LLMs, but with different downsides: you need to check the LLM output which becomes a bigger topic, and then potentially your own skills stagnate as you rely on LLMs more and more.

    • By BeetleB 2025-10-2117:004 reply

      My first engineering job was non-SW, and had a lot of manual work. I automated a lot of it.

      Yes, it led to more work. What would take half a day could now be done in an hour. So we now had to produce 4x more.

      I spent 4 years there automating left and right. Everyone silently hated me. One of the problems with my automation was that it allowed for more and more Q/A. And the more you check for quality issues, the more issues you'll find. Suddenly we needed to achieve 4x more, and that meant finding 4x more problems. The thing about automation is that it doesn't speed up debugging time. This leads to more stress.

      One senior guy took me aside and said management would not reward me for my efforts, but will get the benefit of all my work.

      He was right.

      Eventually, I left because I automate things to make my life easier. If it's not making my life easier (or getting me more money), why should I do it?

      Since then, whenever I get a new job, I test the waters. If the outcome is like that first job, I stop working on process improvements, and look for another job.

      • By abraae 2025-10-2117:274 reply

        I read a great article a while ago (can't remember where) when they tasked some embedded guys with building a somewhat complex front end app.

        When it was done, there were no bugs. Not a single issue. They asked the embedded guys how they had accomplished it. They said "we didn't know bugs were allowed".

        Many people have never authored or even been involved with a high quality piece of software, so they just don't know what it looks like, or why you'd want it.

        You'd think that someone in the exec team would have some personal pride and ownership in the code and would want to flush out bugs and improve quality. But nah.

        • By daheza 2025-10-2117:54

          This nails so much of my frustration with software development at the moment.

          The requests to my team are:

          build what product says

          close out 90% of the defects you find by priority order

          deliver in the priority of feature > security > accessibility

          once delivered move on to something else we only have time to work for 3 months on an initiative before we move on

          These requirements don't end up with a well working product. They end up with gaps in product, defects that are obvious, non-accessible site. Things take time to polish and be made right, but that's not what is requested. Wanting to iterate and measure isn't important because its not more features.

        • By EGreg 2025-10-2118:19

          One would think that machines and automation would be the perfect thing to catch bugs.

          We already do that on many levels -- compilers, linters, pre-commit hooks etc. Well, AI can just red-team and create new tests. The great thing about red-teaming vs blue teaming is that false positive and hallucinations don't hurt the final product. So you can let it go wild.

        • By swat535 2025-10-2122:07

          I mean they don't care about bugs because it doesn't affect sales or bottom line..

          Everyone is used to terribly software with awful security holes and performance so why rock the boat?

          It's not like average normies will complain.. after all, they are probably used to swimming in an ocean of ads, telemetry and junk. Investors will cut the execs a check regardless, the only thing that matters is piling on more features and growing.

          There are _zero_ consequences for writing bad software.

        • By unloader6118 2025-10-2118:20

          Honestly, firmware is usually where we find the worse kind of bugs.

      • By Nextgrid 2025-10-2120:33

        The trick is to automate for your own benefit and keep quiet. Automate your 8hr/day job down to as low as possible, and use the free time for entertainment or another job (where you ideally do the same).

        The reward for good work is more work. If they company wanted to pay you more, they would've already done so. If the company wanted automation, they would put that as a job description and pay accordingly (or more likely outsource it and get a shitty result for 10x the price - despite never willing to pay you anywhere close to that even if you were to give them the fully working solution).

      • By nonethewiser 2025-10-2117:26

        This is just the reality of scaling. Largely but not necessarily automation. Think of customer service now compared to early 2000s. Thats not really a story of automation. Instead, it's a story of 1) outsourcing 2) a bit of legitimate self service options (automation) and 3) abandonment - they simply stopped supporting at a good level. Quality is much worse but throughput is much higher - a necessary evil to scale.

        AI actually has some ability to improve things. At least when I think about manufacturing and farming. When you produced at such a massive scale you could never individually inspect every potato, widget, or target every weed etc. You could produce WAAAY more but more bad products went out the door. But now you can inspect every individual thing. May not extend to every industry though.

      • By donatj 2025-10-2117:083 reply

        I have a friend who automated his entire days work down to the click of a single button. He did not tell management because they were pretty scummy. He got written up for not "looking busy" despite his output being higher than his coworkers.

        Business is stupid. They value busy-ness over productivity.

        • By BeetleB 2025-10-2117:27

          > He got written up for not "looking busy" despite his output being higher than his coworkers.

          Also my experience with that first job. I would get the work done quicker than others, and leave around 5pm (most stayed beyond 6pm).

          The message was clear: "There's always work to do. If you're getting work done early, you need to do more!"

          I got worse ratings than people who achieved less. It also explains why coworkers refused to learn how to automate things.

          Again: I automate to make my life easier. If it isn't working, I shouldn't do it.

        • By overfeed 2025-10-2118:581 reply

          > Business is stupid. They value busy-ness over productivity.

          Not stupid, just entitled to all of your innovation and productivity while you're on the clock (if waged) and off the clock (if you're salaried). If you've shown yourself to be an outlier - that's great for the business - and congratulations, you've aet yourself a new baseline. Isn't class economics just delightful[1]?

          The only employees who have a more direct linkage between productivity and income are sales folk, and it's boom or bust there. If you're an engineer that somehow doubles your employers profits, don't dream they'll double your salary, a once-off bonus is the best you can hope for, at the next evaluation cycle.

          1. From each, according to his ability. To each, according to "market" rates, and his negotiation skills.

          • By popoflojo 2025-10-2121:50

            But that is stupid. If they incentive innovation and productivity gains they could do more business. They don't have to give you the full value of your improvements to incentivise you.

        • By anonymars 2025-10-2117:26

          I guess it is right there in the name, isn't it?

    • By Aurornis 2025-10-2116:099 reply

      Automation is a broad topic. At home I save time because my dishwasher automates washing my dishes. The clothes washer and dryer are a lot easier than doing it by hand. The fruit and vegetable at the grocery store are a lot cheaper than they would be without automation.

      I think individuals who get comfortable in their jobs don’t like automation arriving at their station because it upends the order of things just as they were feeling comfortable and stable. Being adaptable now is more important than ever.

      > Products don't get better either, but that's more of a "shareholder value" problem than it is a specific technology problem.

      This is broadly false. Your laptop is unquestionably better because it was constructed with the help of automated CNC machines and PCB assembly as opposed to workers manually populating PCBs.

      Some companies can try to use automation to stay in place with lower headcount, but they’ll be left behind by competition that uses automation to move forward. Once that leap happens it becomes accepted as the new normal, so it never feels like automation is making changes.

      • By everforward 2025-10-2116:423 reply

        > Your laptop is unquestionably better because it was constructed with the help of automated CNC machines and PCB assembly as opposed to workers manually populating PCBs.

        This is a fundamentally flawed analogy, because the problems are inverted.

        CNC and automated PCB assembly work well because creating a process to accurately create the items is hard, but validation that the work is correct is easy. Due to the mechanics of CNC, we can't manufacture something more precise than we can measure.

        LLMs are inverted; it's incredibly easy to get them to output something, and hard to validate that the output is correct.

        The analogy falls apart if you apply that same constraint to CNC and PCB machines. If they each had a 10% chance of creating a faulty product in a way that can only be detected by the purchaser of the final product, we would probably go back to hand-assembling them.

        > Some companies can try to use automation to stay in place with lower headcount, but they’ll be left behind by competition that uses automation to move forward.

        I suspect there will be a spectrum, as there historically has been. Some companies will use AI heavily and get crazy velocity, but have poor stability as usage uncovers bugs in a poorly understood codebase because AI wrote most of it. Others will use AI less heavily and ship fewer features, but have fewer severe bugs and be more able to fix them because of deep familiarity with the codebase.

        I suspect stability wins for many use cases, but there are definitely spaces where being down for a full day every month isn't the end of the world.

        • By jononor 2025-10-226:36

          I would not call validation of PCBs easy conceptually. We had to develop a lot of automation in validation to enable today production. Optical verification has been standard for many years, and X-ray is now getting commonplace also. Flying probes commonly used. Functional automated testing is standard for any non-hobby product. But you are right in that the automation overall was/is bottlenecks on the ability to do QA - which not only prevents defects from being sent out, but is also critical to systematic improvements in the production process (both tuning and new iteration). And I believe you are right to call out LLM based systems to be weak in this area, and it is a limiting factor. I believe that automated QA will be more and more critical to positive LLM impact.

        • By throwaway31131 2025-10-2118:131 reply

          Validation that a PCB was manufactured correctly is... easy. Disagree, but how about VLSI. It's hugely automated. Moore's Law is exponential but team sizes aren't. That productivity gap is made up for with huge amounts of automation. And nothing is easy about manufacturing validation of an ASIC.

          I do think one primary difference between physical objects and software is we bother to have precise specifications that one can validate against, and I think that's what you're trying to get at. If all software had that then software could have an "easy" validation story too, I suppose.

          I have mixed feelings about precise specifications in software. On the one hand the hardware engineer in me thinks everything should have an exact specification. On the other hand, that's throws away the "soft" advantage which is important for some types of software. So there is a spectrum.

          • By godelski 2025-10-2119:22

            FWIW I don't think there's anything factually wrong with what you said, but I think misses the parent's point. They would be incredibly naïve to say that hardware is easy. But I think they were using "easy" as a relative word, not absolute. As is natural in these conversations, but also easily leads to misunderstanding.

              > I do think one primary difference between physical objects and software is we bother to have precise specifications that one can validate against
            
            Having been on the hardware side and now on software (specifically ML) this is one of the biggest differences I've noticed. It's a lot harder to validate programs. But I think the part that concerns me more is the blasé or even defensive attitude. In physical engineering it often felt "it's the best we can do for now" with people often talking about ideas and trying to make it work. It seemed of concern to management too. But in software it feels a lot more like "it gives the right output" and "it passes the test cases" (hit test cases aren't always robust and don't have the same guarantees as in physical design) and call it done. The whole notion of Test Driven Development even seems absurd. Tests are a critical part of the process, but to drive the process is absurd. It just seems people are more concerned with speed than velocity. A lack of depth, and I even frequently see denial of depth. In physical it seems like we're always trying to go deeper. In software it seems like we're always trying to go wider.

            This isn't to say that's the case everywhere, but it is frequent enough. There's plenty of bad physical engineering teams and plenty of great software teams. But there's definitely differences in approaches and importantly differences in thresholds. The culture too. I've never had a physical engineer ask me "what's the value?", clarifying that they mean monetary value. I've had managers do that, but not fellow engineers. The divide between the engineering teams and business teams was clearer. Which I think is a good thing. Engineers sacrifice profit for product. Business sacrifices product for profit. The adversarial nature keeps balance

        • By godelski 2025-10-2118:58

          Be careful of Lemon Markets[0]. The problem with them is that they create a stable low quality state. They tend to happen when product quality is not distinguishable at time of purchase.

          Which I think we already see a fair amount of this in tech. Even as very tech literate people it can be hard to tell. But companies are definitely pushing to move fast and are willing to trade quality for that. If you're trying to find the minimum quality that a consumer is still willing to pay for, you're likely in a lemon market.

          I mean look at Microsoft lately. They can't even get windows 11 right. There's clear quality control issues that are ruining the brand. Enough that us techies are joking that Microsoft is going to bring about the year of Linux, not because Linux has gotten better (also true) but because Microsoft keeps shooting itself in the foot. Or look at Apple with the new AirPods, they sound like shit. Same with Apple intelligence and liquid glass. A big problem (which helps lemon markets come into existence and be stable) is that competition is weak, with a very high barrier to entry. The market is centralized not only because the momentum and size of existing players (still major factor) but because it takes a lot of capital to even attempt to displace them. That's probably more money and more time than the vast majority of investors are willing to risk and the only ones with enough individual wealth are already tied to the existing space.

          I think you also have it exactly right about LLMs and AI. A good tool makes failures clear and easy to identify. You design failure modes, even in code! But these machines are designed for human preference. Our methods that optimize for truth, accuracy, and human sounding language simultaneously optimize for deception. You can't penalize the network for wrong outputs if you don't recognize they are wrong.

          A final note: you say velocity, I think that's inaccurate. Velocity has direction. It's more accurate to say speed.

          [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

      • By everdrive 2025-10-2116:113 reply

        >Being adaptable now is more important than ever.

        I do actually plan on getting old, and as much as I would love to retire before I'm no longer adaptable, I'm not so sure my finances or my brain will comply.

        >At home I save time because my dishwasher automates washing my dishes.

        I don't think this fits my analogy, because you personally can go watch TV or read a book or exercise given the time that is saved by the dishwasher. At work, you must be at work doing something else, and the "something else" is seldom a real improvement. If I could automate my job and then go on a hike I'd be a lot more excited about it.

        • By Aurornis 2025-10-2116:183 reply

          > At work, you must be at work doing something else, and the "something else" is seldom a real improvement. If I could automate my job and then go on a hike I'd be a lot more excited about it.

          When you find an employer that is happy to pay people to not work, let me know because I also want to work there.

          • By Nextgrid 2025-10-2120:37

            The key is to never let them know you're not working. Deliver the output they want. Whether you personally created that output or a machine is irrelevant.

            Labor, just like any market relies on information asymmetry. Your company is in business because it manages to sell something at a higher price than the cost it incurs producing it. Your company will absolutely not give away its "secret sauce" to their customers so they can go off and do it themselves and stop paying.

            You should act the same; if you have "secret sauce" that allows you to deliver the expected output quicker, enjoy the free time or put it to use elsewhere.

          • By dingnuts 2025-10-2116:51

            it's called being the employer. if you own the capital and you automate the labor then it's your call what to do with the extra time

          • By BeetleB 2025-10-2118:082 reply

            > When you find an employer that is happy to pay people to not work, let me know because I also want to work there.

            This was most employers during COVID :-)

            I worked fewer hours, and still got more done than most of my team. Since I didn't come to office, no one knew. As long as I responded to emails/messages in a timely fashion, no one cared.

            • By bravetraveler 2025-10-2119:031 reply

              I fail to see the problem! "Time to lean, time to clean" is fine for someone billing/paid by the hour.

              As someone on a salary, when the work is finished... I am too. What's overtime? I believe some paperwork had the word 'exempt' on it. My unvested shares are an incentive to save the place from immolation over the next N years. Where's this 'must be at work doing something else' in the contract, again?

              "Where's the loyalty?" I hear someone ask. It passed with a family member and employers that had no compassion.

              All this to say, I fully support your testing of the water. It's a strategy I've picked up/adapted, too. The poster above should enjoy the time saved by automation/hike. I shitpost.

              • By godelski 2025-10-2119:401 reply

                The problem is as soon as everyone returned to office they did care. Even while remote many employers acted like they were being cheated because employees would work less or distribute their work throughout the day.

                We have a tendency to scream crisis while stock prices and market caps rapidly rise. Every little downturn is evidence for the cry, but that doesn't change the trend. They keep saying that the share holders are the real customers and they seem to be doing perfectly fine regardless of if it's a hiring spree or firing. Regardless of if it's even a global pandemic.

                There's 4 companies worth more than $3T, one more than $4T. 11 are worth more than $1T. It's only been 7 years since we broke that $1T barrier. Most of the growth has happened recently too. Even Apple has had bigger swings since the pandemic.

                Idk, I don't think these companies are in trouble anywhere near what they claim. More concerning is this rapid growth in value without corresponding game changing products. Sure, we got AI but it hasn't changed the game like the iPhone did. I'd give up AI a lot sooner than I'd give up my smartphone, even if all it did was make calls, play music, and have a web browser. A pocket computer is very handy

                • By bravetraveler 2025-10-2119:491 reply

                  On the cheat topic: don't forget things like 'r/overemployed'. People truly taking advantage of, and ruining, what could be a nice situation. Sure, some of it's made up, but the response is certainly genuine.

                  CEOs and middle-management are loud and clear: get back to the office/work yourselves to the bone. I've never had to attend so many pointless Teams calls just to prove presence... until this started making the rounds. I've been WFH for nearly ten years. I didn't stop caring until they started. Funny, isn't it?

                  Anyway, we're rambling a bit. Why such a soft apologist? They care. And? These still mean the same thing as fifty years ago: 'salary', 'exempt', and 'at will'. If you mean the peers: well, comparison remains the thief of joy. Management probably also wouldn't want us discussing comp, eh?

                  I hope my point is clear, it's not our place to worry. This is a business transaction, the terms were well-defined. A coworker being upset that you Did Good and Was Rewarded is insanity. Go after the employer, not your peer.

                  • By godelski 2025-10-2122:181 reply

                      > Why such a soft apologist?
                    
                    To be clear, I'm not defending them. I'm doing the opposite...

                      > I didn't stop caring until they started
                    
                    I've never been a "loud laborer" but boy is it crazy how far those people go now. What little work they can get done as long as they do it loudly... (and I'm not criticizing the employee for this, I'm criticizing the one rewarding them. Same reason about comp. I've never been upset at a coworker who is making significantly more than me. I don't feel cheated by them. I feel cheated by the person who duped me into thinking my rate was the wage.)

                    • By bravetraveler 2025-10-224:361 reply

                      > To be clear, I'm not defending them. I'm doing the opposite...

                      My mistake. Much of this read like an appeal, their finances, challenges, and so on are utterly irrelevant. We're employees. Beyond the ability to maintain their contracts, we should not care.

                      The employers can want with one hand and shit in the other, see which fills first.

                      • By godelski 2025-10-224:421 reply

                        Ah, I see. Yeah, I was saying what they want and claim but contrasting. Like how they scream that times are hard as their stock goes up. That tells me times are not so hard. I'm not sure why we continue to buy it.

                        • By bravetraveler 2025-10-224:45

                          Adversity and triumph make for a great story! Nevermind that is what's really manufactured. A worse form of construction.

            • By Aurornis 2025-10-2213:22

              I saw a very different perspective. Some of the people who got to WFH for the first time thought they were getting away with working less because they could bang out Slack replies on their phone when the notification bell came in, but it was really rather obvious that many weren’t working as much.

              I’m still salty about it because the people who played this game poisoned the WFH situation for the rest of us who didn’t use COVID as an excuse to work less and try to pretend we were working more.

        • By bravetraveler 2025-10-2116:351 reply

          > At work, you must be at work doing something else

          Speak for yourself, salary means I'm done when the work is. I encourage you to enjoy the hike, book, whatever. That said, I truly hate the induced demand LLMs offer.

          • By sojournerc 2025-10-2116:421 reply

            That works short-term. Long-term, expectations of productivity catch up, and you either deliver more or get laid off. It's a treadmill not a mountain.

            • By bravetraveler 2025-10-2116:431 reply

              Eh, it's worked well for a couple decades. Pointed effort beats toil, every time. Layoffs are like the tide, do you like the beach?

              • By sojournerc 2025-10-2116:452 reply

                I thought the same... Then I got laid off. It can happen, not certain it will happen to you, and delivering quality certainly matters more than loc or stupid metrics. Glad you're in a good situation

                • By bravetraveler 2025-10-2116:481 reply

                  You say this as if I've never been laid off before. I have, because of acquisitions and even poor performance after the loss of a family member.

                  My point is this: it's going to happen anyway. I refuse to over-extend [any more] to stave the inevitable. I'm in a good spot because I have a solid network (contacts/skills) and reasonable savings.

                  I'm sure the employer would be mad to know I'm posting right now, I don't care. Their fault for allowing me to automate!

                  • By sojournerc 2025-10-2116:571 reply

                    Ok, we're 100% aligning. I was taking care of myself, because I was on the way to bad burnout, and wasn't delivering what I had during the "honeymoon" with that company. Despite feeling like a lynchpin in the organization, I was blindsided by a layoff. Now I'm a professional woodworker and don't give a shit about any of that anymore. Cheers!

                    • By bravetraveler 2025-10-2116:59

                      The wood turns on you, but never like that. Cheers indeed! Enjoy and stay safe out there.

                • By sojournerc 2025-10-2116:501 reply

                  @bravetraveler You edited after I replied. Chill, we're not disagreeing

                  • By bravetraveler 2025-10-2116:51

                    Totally fair, my emphasis remains though: protect yourself, not your role/position. edit: enjoy the woodworking, you're there already :)

        • By pmg101 2025-10-2116:254 reply

          Let's say you could automate your job and go on a hike. Great! You can have a fun hike. But you wouldn't get paid for that.

          I think it's broadly reasonable that you would only be paid for doing something someone else needs doing.

          • By thewebguyd 2025-10-2118:093 reply

            > But you wouldn't get paid for that.f

            Maybe you wouldn't, but you definitely should. Knowledge workers aren't paid for their labor (in the form of me trading my time and effort for wages), knowledge workers are paid for impact. I'm trading my ability to reason, decide, and create value for the company.

            I'm valuable not because I sit at a desk and type for 8 hours. I'm valuable because the outputs of my thinking help move the company forward. My employer isn't buying 8 hours of my time , they're buying the outputs that come from expertise and judgement.

            So if I automate something, the company still receives the same value the pay me for whether I perform the task manually or build something that automates it. I work in ops, so if I use ansible and a script to automate patching 100 servers instead of doing it by hand, my employers gets the same result: patched systems. The automation didn't diminish my contribution, it proved it. I get paid the same either way.

            In essence, my salary is a retainer. It's payment to keep my expertise availalbe, and working for my employers instead of someone else. It's not payment for activity or time.

            • By lotsofpulp 2025-10-2118:38

              These are contradictory claims:

              >In essence, my salary is a retainer. It's payment to keep my expertise availalbe, and working for my employers instead of someone else.

              >It's not payment for activity or time.

              If the latter statement is true, then you must not have any mandatory hours to be present.

              If you do have mandatory hours to be present, then the latter statement is not true.

            • By ponector 2025-10-2118:37

              >> My employer isn't buying 8 hours of my time , they're buying the outputs that come from expertise and judgement

              I'm pretty sure your typical managers don't think so.

            • By anigbrowl 2025-10-2119:30

              There are a few managers who think the same way, but not that many.

          • By throwaway0123_5 2025-10-2116:321 reply

            I think the problem is if/when AGI enables "someone else" to not need human employees for ~anything. The people that own physical capital (land, farms, mines, etc.) would have robots and GPT-N to extract value from it. The people who survive based on their labor are SOL. I think it is reasonable that many people won't be excited about that kind of automation.

            • By nahuel0x 2025-10-2116:521 reply

              The problem is capitalism, not automation.

              • By throwaway0123_5 2025-10-2118:07

                I don't disagree.

                Social/economic stratification (to a certain degree) makes sense as long as there is a reasonable amount of social mobility. AGI paired with advanced robotics seems as though it would all but eliminate social mobility. What would your options be? Politics, celebrity, or a small number of jobs where the human element is essential? I think the economic system needs to dramatically change if/when we reach that point (and ideally before, so people don't suffer in the transition).

          • By everdrive 2025-10-2116:273 reply

            Of course, but then why would I be excited about automation? I can imagine that the executives and shareholders could be excited for automation, but I'm not sure that it benefits me whatsoever.

            • By lotsofpulp 2025-10-2116:36

              Automation reduces cost of goods sold, so in a market with multiple sellers, it leads to lower prices.

              Also, almost everyone is a shareholder, directly or indirectly by being a taxpayer and shouldering the cost of pensions, which are invested in businesses.

            • By Coffeewine 2025-10-2116:371 reply

              The only advantage is that if the company is more efficient they'll be less likely to fire you because the business is failing. They'll just be firing you to eliminate a cost.

              • By lotsofpulp 2025-10-2116:394 reply

                When a buyer shops at a lower priced store, they are also eliminating a cost. No one seems to bemoan that, but for some reason a buyer of labor qualified as “employee” eliminating costs is different than a buyer of say, a new roof shopping around or going to Costco to spend less than the full service grocery business.

                • By bcrosby95 2025-10-2117:591 reply

                  I get that they're connected, but it isn't hard to see why people bemoan classifying humans as a cost and eliminating their ability to receive food and shelter.

                  • By lotsofpulp 2025-10-2118:19

                    The person shopping at Costco or choosing a cheaper roof installer who can work more efficiently with fewer humans is doing the same thing - “classifying humans as a cost”.

                    Choosing to clean your own house instead of hiring a house cleaner, cooking your own food, doing your own landscaping, driving your own car, all of these are “classifying humans as a cost”.

                    I probably could afford a maid and landscaper, but I don’t because I would rather keep the money. When an employer does that, it is somehow different.

                • By nemomarx 2025-10-2117:05

                  people complain all the time that Walmart and dollar tree drive local groceries out of business though

                • By immibis 2025-10-243:16

                  Distilling everything to pure numbers in a spreadsheet is one of the problems of this type of economy.

            • By bcrosby95 2025-10-2117:461 reply

              The executives and shareholders will only be excited about the first order effects of widespread automation like this.

              They will be less excited about the second order - a steady loss of revenue as whole professions are automated and people can't find a well paying job.

              The third order will be even worse when no one has a job or money to buy anything.

              People always point to the industrial revolution. But that created millions of jobs before it obsoleted millions of jobs - you needed workers to create tractors. This wave seems to be shaping up much more like what happened to the rust belt in the late 20th century, regions which still haven't recovered. However this time it'll hit pretty much everyone, everywhere.

              Good luck with that capitalism.

              • By pmg101 2025-10-226:50

                I concur capitalism has it's problems but if this means we move back to feudalism I think we can safely say that will be worse.

          • By ponector 2025-10-2118:30

            >> you would only be paid for doing something someone else needs doing

            Right, like drinking coffee at the kitchen in the office.

      • By candiddevmike 2025-10-2116:14

        I think "bottom up" or worker led automation works far, far better than top down. Leadership always comes up with "efficiency" ideas for automation without ever spending a day in the life of the people who will use the automation. And they almost always fail to realize any gains but disrupt everyone's workflow.

      • By lovich 2025-10-2118:21

        > I think individuals who get comfortable in their jobs don’t like automation arriving at their station because it upends the order of things just as they were feeling comfortable and stable. Being adaptable now is more important than ever.

        Look at all the other threads with people’s experiences. They aren’t unhappy with automation because they were comfortable. They are unhappy with automation because the reward for being more productive is higher expectations and no compensation.

        People think the Luddite movement was smashing looms because they inherently hated technology. They smashed the looms because the factories were producing more and the result of that productivity was the workers becoming destitute.

        If the machines and progress only bring about a worse life for individuals, those individuals are going to be against the machines

      • By edflsafoiewq 2025-10-2117:45

        You recoup the saving of home automation immediately as additional leisure time. But for most people, work automation neither reduces your working time nor increases your wage.

      • By jononor 2025-10-226:28

        Are you sure you spend less time per week on clothes washing than people did before the clothes washer? I suspect that before, people would wash their clothes considerably more seldom - which might even out the efficiency gains of the machine.

      • By jadelcastillo 2025-10-2116:171 reply

        It's an interesting analogy. But one difference between dishwashers and LLMs is that you don't need to check the dishes afterward (if you maintain and use it properly).

        • By almosthere 2025-10-2116:313 reply

          Yeah but to continue the analogy, the washer was JUST invented and your clothes will come out ruined for a while.

          • By fragmede 2025-10-2116:362 reply

            Oh man, remember how much bigger a deal it was that you had to separate your clothes into the exact right categories and run the machine with different kinds of loads? Modern detergent, it's basically all machine wash cold, with far fewer exceptions compared to 30 years ago.

            • By AlexandrB 2025-10-2117:39

              I don't think it's just the detergent. Modern clothes are made of shitty, synthetic fabrics. This is also why most people don't have to iron anything anymore. The tradeoff is microplastics[1], comfort/breathability, and durability.

              Classic example is jeans. Modern jeans are ridiculously stretchy compared to "real" cotton denim because they contain tons synthetic fibers. However I run through jeans at an alarming pace - even compared to when I was a kid. They wear quickly, tear easily, and generally don't last.

              [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/laundry-is-a-top-source...

            • By denimnerd42 2025-10-2117:44

              im not sure how youre getting around the physics of white lint on dark clothing. and i separate plastic clothing from cotton or wool clothing because cotton usually just gets machine dried but i dont want to put my wool or plastic clothing through that process because its not necessary.

          • By anigbrowl 2025-10-2119:311 reply

            Why are you putting your clothes in the dishwasher

            • By almosthere 2025-10-226:25

              Oh crap, maybe that's why they are coming out ruined.

          • By jadelcastillo 2025-10-2116:36

            True, but reaching intelligence is more complicated than cleaning some spoons.

      • By fragmede 2025-10-2116:332 reply

        The two other things that come immediately to mind are clothes; if a shirt cost $4,000 per, our closets would look way different, and cars. No matter your personal opinion on cars vs public transportation, if even if the cheapest vehicle cost $500,000, society would look way different. The real thing it exposes though, is which side of the capital vs labor you work on. If the widget factory suddenly is able to make 10x the widgets in the same amount of time thanks to a new automated widget machine, if you're capital, you now have 10x the widgets to sell. Awesome! However, if you're labor, you still have a 40/hr a week job, regardless of how many widgets you make in a week. And the boss is counting how many widgets you make on the new machine they bought. At the edges of this in the tech industry we have website building. The market haven't yet totally adjusted to the lower costs of labor. What used to take 10 hours to build and you'd charge a client $3,000 for, now takes 2 hours but since the client was previously paying $3,000 for that service, you're not going to charge them less, you're going to take on additional clients. Or spend more time at the beach. In this scenario, the programmer is capital, not labor, and gets to reap the rewards of automation. Until the market catches up, anyway. Given that the industrial machine in the website builder's factory is a laptop and a cloud hosting bill, it's unclear if the Marxist division between capital and labor, burgousie and proletariat is still the right place to draw the lines, but the trade off is still there. If you're selling your time in exchange for money, automation means a faster conveyor belt that you need to adapt to, but you're still working 40/h a week. If you're selling widgets, automation means more widgets to sell.

        • By rightbyte 2025-10-2117:18

          Petite bourgeoisie maybe?

        • By harvey9 2025-10-2117:581 reply

          The customer who was paying 3000 for a website may now be going to somewhere like Wix.

          • By fragmede 2025-10-2119:56

            That client was going to use Wix before AI. B2B sales is a whole thing, and businesses pay to have a human to talk to, not a website.

    • By microtonal 2025-10-2116:181 reply

      I think it all hinges on recognizing what opportunities automation helps.

      For instance, I had to rename a collection of files almost following a pattern. I know that there are apps that do this and normally I’d reach for the Perl-based rename script. But I do it so irregularly that I have to install it every time, figure out how I can do a dry run first, etc. Meanwhile, with the Raycast AI integration that also supports Finder, I did it in the 10-15 seconds that it took to type the prompt.

      There are a lot of tasks that you do not do often enough to commit them fully to memory, but every time you do them it takes a lot of time. LLM-based automation really speeds up these tasks. Similar for refactors that an IDE or language server cannot do, some kinds of scripts etc.

      On the other hand LLMs constantly mess up some algorithms and data structures, so I simply do not let LLMs touch certain code.

      It’s all about getting a feeling for the right opportunities. As with any tool.

      • By brendoelfrendo 2025-10-2116:392 reply

        > For instance, I had to rename a collection of files almost following a pattern. I know that there are apps that do this and normally I’d reach for the Perl-based rename script. But I do it so irregularly that I have to install it every time, figure out how I can do a dry run first, etc. Meanwhile, with the Raycast AI integration that also supports Finder, I did it in the 10-15 seconds that it took to type the prompt.

        > On the other hand LLMs constantly mess up some algorithms and data structures, so I simply do not let LLMs touch certain code.

        See, these two things seem at odds to me. I suppose it is, to a degree, knowledge that you can learn over time: that an LLM is suitable for renaming files but not for certain other tasks. But for me, I'd be really cautious about letting an AI rename a collection of files, to the point that the same restrictions apply as would apply to a script: I'd need to create the prompt, verify the output via a dry run or test run, modify as necessary, and ultimately let the AI loose and hope for the best.

        Meanwhile, I probably have a script kicking around somewhere that will rename a batch of files, and I can modify it pretty quickly to match a new pattern, test it out, and be confident that it will do exactly what I expect it to do.

        Is one of these paths faster than the other? I'm not sure; it's probably a wash. The AI would definitely be faster if I was confident I could trust it. But I'm not sure how I can cross that threshold in my mind and be confident that I can trust it.

        • By saxenaabhi 2025-10-2116:512 reply

          > See, these two things seem at odds to me. I suppose it is, to a degree, knowledge that you can learn over time: that an LLM is suitable for renaming files but not for certain other tasks. But for me, I'd be really cautious about letting an AI rename a collection of files, to the point that the same restrictions apply as would apply to a script: I'd need to create the prompt, verify the output via a dry run or test run, modify as necessary, and ultimately let the AI loose and hope for the best.

          Why? I never understand this level of caution since don't we all use VC? Just feed it the prompt and if it messes up undo the changes.

          • By acuozzo 2025-10-2118:001 reply

            > don't we all use VC?

            This assumes you're working with text files.

            What if you're working with ~100MiB (each!) frames from a scan of a 35mm movie?

            (Note: This isn't fictional. I've worked with file-sets like this in film restoration many times.)

          • By brendoelfrendo 2025-10-2119:33

            As another commenter suggested, this only works for some workflows. I'd also argue it kind of undermines the idea that an LLM can do this work better than a script.

        • By gmadsen 2025-10-2116:501 reply

          as part of the prompt, have a test suite with test files. Its still fully automated by the LLM but adds confidence

          • By recursive 2025-10-2116:511 reply

            If it's under the umbrella of LLM automation, then I'd also need to verify that the test suite behavior actually matches the "production" behavior.

            • By gmadsen 2025-10-2118:34

              sure, but that is less work. you can also have separate LLM QA prompts that assess test suite behavior to production behavior.

              ultimately you are right, the buck needs to stop somewhere, but at least in my experience, the more you add quality/test checks as LLM workflows, the higher the rate of success.

    • By surajrmal 2025-10-2116:25

      Do you like washing laundry at the river or carrying water from the well back to your house? You cannot talk in generalities about this topic as it is too broad.

      There are definitely many things which when automated loses out on some edge cases. But most folks don't need artisanal soap.

    • By bdangubic 2025-10-2117:24

      > and then potentially your own skills stagnate as you rely on LLMs more and more.

      I hear this so often these days and I quite do not understand this part. If I trust LLM do to "X" that means i have made a determination that LLM is top-notch with "X" (if I did not make this determination then letting LLMs do X would be lunacy) and henceforth I do not give a flying hoot to know "X" and if my "X" skills deteriorate it is same thing as when we got equipment to tend to our corn fields and my corn picking skills deteriorated. of course I am being facetious here but you get the point.

    • By HardCodedBias 2025-10-2116:35

      Automation increases productivity.

      Without automation we would all be living in poverty.

    • By kogasa240p 2025-10-2117:27

      IMO it's an economic problem (GDP must always rise because reasons) and the hedonic treadmill at play. I would even argue against the complexity point and rather point to overengineering being the root cause; an example would be using a robot arm to automate a cup of coffee instead of using existing vending machines for that purpose.

      > potentially your own skills stagnate as you rely on LLMs more and more.

      There were some papers from microsoft that highlighted this point https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/...

    • By jstummbillig 2025-10-2116:153 reply

      This is just empirically not true. Increase in productivity has lead to broad increase in prosperity (with one relatively recent but currently very important caveat, the housing market).

      Now, if what you actually want is to be relatively more prosperous and have more status that's a game you can keep playing forever. But you really don't have to, to simply be better off than all people in the past with far less work.

      • By subsection1h 2025-10-2117:441 reply

        > Increase in productivity has lead to broad increase in prosperity

        All of my grandparents retired in their 50s with fat pensions and then lived into their late 80s without having ever stepped foot on a college campus.

        • By jstummbillig 2025-10-2118:231 reply

          You can do that today. But there was a no episode in history where that would have bene the norm or more likely than it is today. Anecdotes are just that.

          • By lovich 2025-10-2118:33

            Where?

            The only place I can think of giving pensions at that age anymore is the military. And you aren’t getting a fat pension without being an officer which requires a degree

      • By philipwhiuk 2025-10-2116:231 reply

        A bigger caveat is that measuring improvement by 'prosperity' is both vague (are you using GDP, GDP/capita or GDP/capita of the lowest 10%) and arbitrary (perhaps a better measure is the life expectancy of the poorest 10%).

        • By jstummbillig 2025-10-2117:05

          That does not seem like a caveat at all, given that the improvement is completely obvious for all of these.

      • By lovich 2025-10-2118:32

        > Now, if what you actually want is to be relatively more prosperous and have more status that's a game you can keep playing forever. But you really don't have to, to simply be better off than all people in the past with far less work.

        Everyone I grew up with or met via work that is my age or younger has 1-3 more degrees than their parents and grandparents and are significantly worse off when it comes to standard life milestones like buying a home or ever having children.

        We are not becoming relatively more prosperous as a people. We have more bread and circuses and less roofs over our heads on average

    • By j45 2025-10-2116:19

      Premature automation is what causes problems.

      Too many people are trying to jump to the end when they don't even have their day to day managed or efficient today can tend to carry forward efficiency in a number of business workflows.

      Checking the LLM output is required when it's not consistent, in many cases maintaining the benefit requires the human to know more on the subject than the LLM.

    • By Xevion 2025-10-2116:381 reply

      Lowkey it kind of sounds like capitalism is the problem here, not automation.

      • By pdntspa 2025-10-2116:401 reply

        This needs to be boosted more to this community; WE are creating the tools of our own oppression.

        The folks at the top know how susceptible we are to being nerd-sniped and how readily we will build these things for them.

        • By sothatsit 2025-10-2117:371 reply

          I want to create automation and greater efficiencies because I believe it is good for the world to have better goods and services, cheaper.

          The bigger problem I see is not automation, it is the exploitation of addictive behaviours to “capture attention”.

          • By cool_man_bob 2025-10-2117:401 reply

            I don’t give a fuck how cheap you make bread and circuses. The only goods and services I give a fuck about anymore are the ones that won’t be made cheaper with automation.

            • By sothatsit 2025-10-2117:562 reply

              Speak for yourself. I want cheaper building costs so we can build more housing, cheaper and safer vehicles, higher quality food so we can all be healthier, better medical technology and medicines so we can solve more diseases, and new washing-machine-like technologies so I can spend more time with friends/family. That’s not to mention that greater leverage on my labour would give me even more flexibility to choose the work I want to do, and how much I want to work.

              Bread is already so cheap as to not notice the price most of the time. But other goods and services are absolutely not that cheap. And there’s certainly higher quality that could be achieved, especially in areas like medicine. It is a lack of imagination to not see all the ways in which cheaper goods and services could improve our lives.

              • By throwaway0123_5 2025-10-2118:161 reply

                Making all of those things cheaper is great, as long the automation isn't also making everyone poorer at an equal or faster rate. It doesn't really help if house prices and food prices are cut in half if most people lose their employment because of automation.

                I think the concern is that true human+ AGI and advanced robotics would obsolete so many roles that it doesn't matter if things can be made more efficiently, because nobody will have any money at all. If/when AI can do my job better than me, it isn't giving me leverage, it is removing all leverage I have as someone who puts food on the table through labor.

                In the interim period before that happens then sure, the automation is great for some people who can best leverage it.

                • By sothatsit 2025-10-2118:27

                  On the path to “AGI” I would expect a lot of short-term pain as people lose their jobs while unemployment is still around normal levels. But if unemployment rises too much, we would pass laws to protect people, like greater corporate taxes to fund things like UBI.

                  But honestly, if we have this level of automation it feels like it would be very hard to predict how society will evolve. I would expect our current model of work-to-live to become untenable, and we’d move to something else. I doubt that transition will be easy.

              • By pdntspa 2025-10-2118:021 reply

                It's never going to go down like that as long as companies are required to serve shareholder interests above customers' or employees'.

                Instead all these automation tools are and will be used to cut corners and optimize on cost. Quality, peace-of-mind, and increased free time will be the sales pitch used to placate us plebes. But we all know what the executive dipshits will really care about.

                • By sothatsit 2025-10-2118:07

                  Most people here could choose to work less than full-time hours if they wanted to. I already do (although I do it so I can work more on my own projects, to be fair).

                  Although, maybe going against the hedonic treadmill is against our nature. There’s always a nicer house in a better neighbourhood to work for. But I at least want more people to have the choice to work fewer hours through higher wages. That might not come for free with economic growth, but it certainly won’t come without it.

    • By 6gvONxR4sf7o 2025-10-2116:43

      As always, labor is a marketplace, and the supply side boils down to a) how much the next person else is willing to work (all else equal), and b) external forces (like overtime requirements kicking in at 40 hours).

    • By mclau153 2025-10-2117:41

      You could remove "you still need to work 40 hours a week"

    • By risyachka 2025-10-2118:10

      Its like a factory.

      First things were made by hand, slowly - they were expensive and you could make a living making things.

      Now those things are made in factories.

      And they are 99% automated - like where software is going.

      And whats left is to be a mindless factory worker doing repetitive things all day for a living wage.

      But hey, you are so productive - now you make 100k items in a day. Must feel nice.

  • By OptionOfT 2025-10-2116:533 reply

    For me, it is making my work miserable.

    I'm seeing amount of changes needed to produce new features when coding with these AI tools constantly increasing, due to the absence of a proper foundation, and due to the willingness of people to accept it, with the idea that 'we can change it quickly'.

    It has become acceptable to push those changes in a PR and present them as your own, filled with filler comments that are instant tech debt, because they just repeat the code.

    And while I actually don't care who writes the code, I do expect the PR author to properly understand the code and most importantly, the impact on the codebase.

    In my role as a mentor I now spend a lot of time looking at things written and wonder: Did the author write this, or did they AI? Because if the code is wrong, this question changes how the conversation goes.

    It also impacts the kind of energy I'm willing to put in into educating the other person as to how things can be improved.

    • By figers 2025-10-2118:471 reply

      I reject commits like this, make them re-write it and explain why such and such coding will never be allowed in our code base.

      Forces the change in coding practice.

      • By bakugo 2025-10-2119:002 reply

        > I reject commits like this

        Which is a great idea until your superior asks why you're holding back the vibe coders and crippling their 100x productivity by rejecting their PRs instead of just going with the flow.

        • By figers 2025-10-2119:441 reply

          I'm in a unique situation where I started the company so there's nobody above me.

          • By OptionOfT 2025-10-2120:391 reply

            Are you hiring? I happen to know good Rust developer.

            • By figers 2025-10-220:22

              We are a C# .NET Core shop

        • By butlike 2025-10-2119:441 reply

          Which is the hill you get paid to die on as a manager. Die on the hill and ask for your severance package.

          • By figers 2025-10-220:22

            Yup, better to die on that hill and have a code base that's manageable vs a mess that gets out of your control that you still die on!

    • By jonator 2025-10-2117:53

      The issue you described is an issue with AI?

    • By lezojeda 2025-10-2118:10

      [dead]

  • By consumer451 2025-10-2116:314 reply

    I know it's making me work more, and I am thrilled. I have not shipped production code for 20 years, and it was desktop back then.

    I am now able to single-handedly create webapp MVPs, one of which is getting traction. If anything actually takes-off, there will certainly be need for a real dev to take over. Also, my commits are not "vibe coded." I have read every single loc, and found so many issues that I am stunned that "vibe coding" is actually a thing. I do let the models run wild on prototypes though.

    I think that I happen to be in some magical sweet spot as a person who knows the words, kept up with tech, but not the syntax of framework xyz.

    I thought this sweet spot was very transient, and I am very happy that the tools appear to be reaching a plateau for now, so I still have at least another year of being useful.

    Since agentic dev tools arrived, I am having the time of my life while gladly working 60hrs per week.

    I realize that I am an outlier, but is anyone else in this same boat? If you have product ideas, is this not the best time ever to build? All of our ideas are being indirectly subsidized by billions of VC & FAANG dollars. That is pretty freaking cool.

    • By CharlesW 2025-10-2117:21

      > I realize that I am an outlier, but is anyone else in this same boat?

      Yep. I have a computer science background but have always been "the most technical product management/marketing guy in the room". Now I'm having lots of fun building a SaaS and a mobile app to my standards, plus turning out micro-projects like pwascore.com in a day or two.

      It turns out that I love designing/architecting products, just not the grind-y coding bits. Because I create lots of tests, use code analysis tools, etc., I'm confident that I'm creating higher quality code than (for example) what most outsourced coders are creating without LLMs.

    • By insane_dreamer 2025-10-222:111 reply

      Sounds like these are hobby projects that you're doing on your own. The point of AI making us work more is referring to people at companies, not for themselves. Employers are capturing the productivity benefits (if they exist), not employees.

      • By consumer451 2025-10-223:101 reply

        That is a false assumption.

        I am getting paid. I was able to resurrect a startup that failed 8 years ago. Back then, we tried to bootstrap with a very nice off-shore dev for the MVP, that's all we could afford. The iteration period was ~24hrs. That period is now minutes. You know who that helps? Every startup who didn't nail the idea from go, and requires iteration.

        I can now meet with a user on Monday, show them the little feature they wanted by Tuesday... like a real full stack dev would have done 4 years ago. Is it ready for b2c scale on Tuesday? No, but that's not my goal.

        I understand all the LLM-dev derision to some extent. But if you are not using the billions of non-gate-kept subsidies given to all of us right now, then either you are working on real computer science problems, or you are wasting what seems like the biggest opportunity of my lifetime.

        This is the greatest time to build a startup ever. However, if you are stuck making that money for the boss, then yeah.. that's probably annoying. And yes, it is scary as hell that we are all going to be replaced, in possibly very short order. This is the time for every dev to learn to be a ... eeek... product dev, and not a just a software dev. I think Product Dev will become a thing.

        • By insane_dreamer 2025-10-225:23

          Ok, they're not hobby projects, but as you put it, you're "resurrecting a startup" which is pretty close to working for yourself. In other words, your extra productivity is being captured by you and your bootstrapped startup, which is great. But my point was the article was talking about the vast majority of people who are working for a company who captures nearly all the value from the extra productivity, which they do not benefit from. It's a bit like training your replacement.

          Also, I agree that LLMs are particularly good for quickly putting together MVPs/prototypes; one of their best use cases.

    • By xcf_seetan 2025-10-2213:51

      I am in the same boat. But i am getting overwhelm with the code quantity i have to review[0] before i update my code. I don’t let llm touch my code, i ask for code for this or that and then save the code for future review. But ideas flow in faster that i can review then.

      [0] https://medium.com/@xcf.seetan/adventures-on-the-ai-coding-s...

    • By te_chris 2025-10-2213:27

      Yes. What they've shown me is that I don't like code. Hate it, actually. But I like building things, and can still read and reason about problems and code. So I chose the best stack for what we're doing, but I don't get bogged down in arcania. It's great.

HackerNews