After my dad died, we found the love letters

2025-11-238:40637295www.jenn.site

a few days after , we found the love letters, hidden away among his things. one of them said, my parents were not a love match. at 27 and 26, they were e...

a few days after dad died, we found the love letters, hidden away among his things. one of them said, i love dota and i love peaches, but i love you more. i will quit smoking and lose weight for you. the happiest days of my life are the ones that start with you across the breakfast table from me.

my parents were not a love match. at 27 and 26, they were embarrassingly old by the standards of their small chinese port town. all four of my grandparents exerted enormous pressure to force them together.

my father fulfilled the familial obligations heaped on his shoulders without complaint. he didn't get along with my mother, or my younger brother, but this wasn't too bad; he often worked away from us (for months and even years on end), mostly in china, more recently in redacted, another canadian city.

the physical distance between us for most of my life has made his passing easier for me to come to terms with. i call him dad here but i didn't lose a dad, i lost someone who was abstractly a father to me. he was more often gone than there, had missed all of my graduations and birthday parties. there was one time he took care of me when i was sick. his hands on me were gentle, and he told me stories from chinese history while i lay feverish in bed. i was seven. this is approximately the only memory i have of him being a dad to me.

still, the two of us were close in our own way. sometimes, the two of us would go on long walks together. after fifteen minutes of silence, or twenty, something would loosen in him and he would start to tell me about the depths of his sadness and the disappointment in the way his life played out. i was good at not taking this personally. i didn't think he ever had a chance to be happy or authentic, his entire life. he sacrificed himself so i could.

i always thought that if he had a chance at happiness, he would be the gentle, funny, and sensitive aesthete that i caught glimpses of sometimes, instead of the bullheaded chinese patriarch others seemed to demand.

except it turns out he did have this chance after all. his lover and i ended up meeting soon after his death. edward lived in redacted, the city that my dad had worked in for the past year and a bit.

edward tells me their story, all in a rush. he and my dad had been seeing each other for three years, and had agreed to go exclusive a year and a half ago. they met while he was in china, and there was an instant spark between them, something special and precious that neither of them had felt before. dad convinced him to apply for a university program here in canada, to eventually get permanent residency in canada. so edward, in his 30s, sold his flourishing business and his house, and came to start over in a foreign land for the sake of being with him.

edward reckons they were engaged, or something like it; they lived together, toured open houses in redacted every weekend with every intent to buy something together, and there was an understanding that dad would soon come out, divorce my mother, and live in the open with edward for the rest of their lives.

edward gave me some photos he had of my dad, and i could scarcely believe that they were of the grim, sad man i knew. he beams in all of them, glowing with joy, his smile more incandescent than i've ever seen in my entire life. i steal glances at edward, the person who took all those impossible photos. the person he was looking at.

my mind keeps stuttering to boskovitch's installation, that single box fan behind plexiglass. i imagine the course of events from edward's point of view: a year living with the love of your life, and then they are suddenly gone in an awful accident and you are too late to see them one last time, to attend the funeral. your own grief is an isolating thing because you are closeted and no one else knew who you were to each other. i wish we had gotten in touch sooner, but edward is grateful to be allowed any affordance, at all.

their life in redacted seemed similarly impossible: a life where my dad splurged on the treats he never did at home (hagen dazs ice cream, honeycrisp apples, nice shoes) and left the house on a regular basis to explore the city with the one he loves. a life where he felt safe enough to ask for kisses and cuddles because he knew they would be provided, even to sa jiao playfully. all i ever knew him to do at home was to sit in a stupor by the television set.

and there was a new hurt, but it was sweet, to imagine the way life could have been in ten years time, a life i've never previously imagined; dad happily with edward in a nice new house where i'd visit every so often, shoulders loose and smiling, and we'd get to talk, actually talk.

according to edward, my dad had known that he had liked men at least since his university years. that makes it almost forty years in the closet, then; just thinking about it makes me feel a sort of dizzying claustrophobia.

i came out to mom years before i came out to dad. when i did, mom told me that coming out to dad was not a good idea, because he was such a traditionalist and she didn't know how he would react. but i came out to him anyways, one quiet afternoon when i visited him in china, because i thought our relationship was good and that he can handle it, and i wanted him to know this about me.

when i did, he took it well. he told me that though the path i am on is a painful one, he would be there for me, and that the most important thing was to find xin fu in life, not to live your life in accordance to the expectations of anyone else. in my staggering relief i did not notice the confusion. i just felt so grateful to have had that understanding, a precious gift that i did not have any expectation of receiving. now, i feel only bereft of the conversations we never managed to have, and grief for the life he never got to live.

dad lives in my living room these days, in a box made of cherry wood, because mom didn't want him in the house after the truth came out. so when edward visited, he got to see him one last time, and say goodbye. he held the box in his arms and wept, spilling more tears and emotions than his biological family managed to, and i escaped to my room for the evening to give them some privacy.

did i mention the shrines? we set them up for the dead in our culture. we had ours, a formal thing in a cabinet, and we had knelt in front of it like we were supposed to, given the correct number of kowtows. edward shared with me pictures of his. it sprawled over the entirety of his dining table. it had packs of playing cards from the brand he liked best and his favourite cuts of meat and the wine he finished off the day with. every morning, he would play my dad's favourite songs to him. i didn't know my dad's favourite cuts of meat. i didn't know he drank wine. i didn't know he listened to music.

so of course i let them say goodbye to each other. when i went out of my room the next morning, he was still fully dressed on my couch, bedding untouched, staring blankly at the box in his lap. it gleamed red in the morning sun. he rose at my approach, put my dad back on the mantle with gentle hands, and then stood quietly at a perfect parade rest in front of him as i managed breakfast for the two of us. his flight back to redacted was that afternoon.

i don't know how to thank you for all this, he says. the chance to say goodbye. he was really proud of you, he spoke about you to me all the time. he never told me that you were gay. edward tells me that dad had plans to go back to redacted in a few weeks time and that he wanted to tell me everything before he left, but he was anxious about how i'd take it. i don't ask edward how many times he'd made the resolution to tell me before.

because you see, my dad was a coward. mom had started asking for divorces by the time i was in my teens, and dad was the one who always said no. he would complain to her mother, a traditionalist, to ensure that she would berate her daughter back into line. his family and his culture had no place for him, so he used her as a shield to make sure that he would be spared the scrutiny. slowly, we found evidence of other affairs, going back decades. of course my mother did not want him in the house.

i sit by my dad sometimes, and i make sure he always has a bowl of fresh fruit. fifty seven years, most of them suffocating and miserable, the last three of them shot through with so much joy his smile absolutely glows.

he wasted his entire life, my mom said to me, the evening we found the love letters. his entire life, and mine as well.

(dissolution)

#diary #longform


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Comments

  • By pavlov 2025-11-2312:1611 reply

    Ouch. This hits incredibly hard.

    I’ve been this dad who sits frozen at the TV every evening. I had the affairs with the emotionally unavailable men, and became one myself.

    Before you judge the man in this story too harshly — and there’s certainly much to judge, especially given the follow-up post — consider the environment he and I grew up in. Being gay as a young teenager in the early 1990s could feel literally like a death sentence. AIDS panic was everywhere. Gay men in movies were comedy sidekicks or dying wrecks (“Philadelphia”). There was a real threat of violence from other kids. If you could pass as straight, why wouldn’t you give it your best shot? The alternative was to be a laughing stock and die alone in a hospital where nurses don’t dare touch you. (This is literally how I imagined gay life at age 13.)

    I still feel like I’m barely getting started on the therapy journey to recover from those decades. Seems like the man in the story never had the chance for professional help (or didn’t seek it). The compartmentalization can be extremely taxing. He disappointed many people, but that doesn’t mean he was a bad person.

    • By snapplebobapple 2025-11-2317:42

      Once i realized he was gay and chinese it just read how i expected it would go for most in that situation and time period. I am not gay, traditional, chinese or quite as old (probably i am 15 years younger than the gay dad) but i hope i would pull it off as well as he appears to in that situation. He raised only minorly messed up kids, managed to find a little of what his heart felt was love. Biggest fail was not finding a lesbian in the same situation to pull this off together and avoid the lieing and resentment and pain caused to the other partner from a marriage only known to be a sham to one party.

    • By JKCalhoun 2025-11-2313:515 reply

      I wasn't in any way judging the father harshly when I read it. I also read between the lines that there was additionally "traditional Asian culture" as another factor.

      I only questioned why he would have brought kids into the "union", but I can easily imagine that it was his wife's desire.

      A very sad story in general. I lost my mom a few years ago and I suspect I'll go to my grave still very sad about the could-have-beens.

      • By schneems 2025-11-2315:101 reply

        > I only questioned why he would have brought kids into the "union",

        They might be lead to believe "if only we got married ... if only we had kids ... that will 'fix' it." Even straight couples who aren't in love fall into this trap.

        I don't know how well real life imitates art, but a lot of films involving gay historical characters have a similar enough narrative I assume it has some grain of truth: The gay person would rather not be gay (it would be easier for them), and is told by society that it's a choice. Maybe they even have some small amount of feelings for the spouse or think they can "learn to love them." See Rustin 2023 as an example of the psychology in action.

        > I'll go to my grave still very sad about the could-have-beens.

        Sorry for that. Loss is one of the hardest, most confusing emotions. That lack of closure and the unknown is a truly awful feeling.

        • By locknitpicker 2025-11-2316:351 reply

          > The gay person would rather not be gay (it would be easier for them), and is told by society that it's a choice.

          What's striking about those stories is that there were clearly quite a lot of cases where people objectively chose not to be gay, but they did it by repressing and masking it away by working hard on exemplary marriages that delivered many offspring to their name. Ultimately this means that yes indeed they could chose to not be gay, but they would have to sacrifice their whole sense of self just to comply with a societal norm.

          • By mallets 2025-11-2316:46

            Being gay isn't the choice here, choosing not to act on your attraction/desires is. Might feel nitpicky but a very important distinction.

      • By mallets 2025-11-2314:01

        Having kids is half the reason (or more) for such marriages, nothing completes the nuclear family picture quite like it. And not like it's easy for gay couples in accepting environments to have kids either, surrogacy is banned in most countries ("liberal" ones too, US is kind of an exception here) and adoption is nigh impossible. Some countries like Italy go as far as selectively making both illegal, but only for gay couples.

        I would say many asian parents care very little about the partner, as long as they get their grandkids. A mix of that and "what would society think".

      • By Spooky23 2025-11-2318:172 reply

        It is a sad story. But I will say that events in my life have really made me regret questioning the decisions of others.

        I did things “right” I met my wife right after college, and I loved her dearly. We lived a happy life and have a wonderful son. We lost her a couple of years ago to cancer, followed by my parents and my mother and father in law, all of whom i was incredibly close with.

        Yet life carries on. I come from a very traditional ethnic-focused catholic background. I’m not going to be following the standard script. I’m in my 40s, any partner will likely be divorced with their own child(ren). I’m not having more children. Will that partner be compared to my wife? Will I judged if she is too old/young/in a higher/lower status profession?

        Reality: everyone has been incredibly supportive of my family and I. But the anxiety is there.

        I would just say in looking at the lives of others, try to walk in their shoes. By all accounts the father in the story was not a perfect man. Few of us are. But consider that he was facing certain and complete rejection by his entire world, and he most likely made the choice that he felt was the least bad.

        • By treis 2025-11-2318:42

          I strongly disagree. The father passed on the same trauma he experienced to his own child. It makes it worse because he knows exactly how painful it is but did it anyways.

          I'm watching my ex do the same thing to our kid. I understand it on a mechanical level. But on an emotional level I will never understand how you can look into the eyes of your child and hurt them.

          The mechanics of it are what you see in the OP. I see it in my parents, my aunts/uncles, and my cousins. It's somewhere between denial and minimization. It's like a defense mechanism against the truth which is something like my father didn't love me enough to not severely damage me. "They did the best they could" is a common refrain. Ultimately that ends up being their justification for hurting their own kids.

          There is a balance to hit here. Yes, we are all human and you can't expect perfection. What you can expect and what everyone deserves from their loved ones is for them to at all points try to and not hurt you. There's forgiveness for coming up short if there's effort and steady improvement.

        • By lukan 2025-11-2318:32

          "and he most likely made the choice that he felt was the least bad."

          The least bad for him.

          "mom had started asking for divorces by the time i was in my teens, and dad was the one who always said no. he would complain to her mother, a traditionalist, to ensure that she would berate her daughter back into line. his family and his culture had no place for him, so he used her as a shield to make sure that he would be spared the scrutiny"

      • By swatcoder 2025-11-2314:341 reply

        > only questioned why he would have brought kids into the "union"

        For a lot of people, building a family is a duty you embrace with your household partner. It's why you exist in the first place. It's why you get married and share a home with somebody at all.

        Perhaps, if you're lucky, your children are a fruit of love, or perhaps, if you're horny, they're a fruit of passion.

        But for a lot for such people, having and raising kids is the entirety of why you get married, and is the rationale for you might not marry for love or passion in the first place.

        Marrying the person you're most attracted to or have the most fun with or whose pants you're most eager to get into is a very culturally specific practice and frankly, even where it is an aspiration, its one that a lot of people just don't luck into. But they nonetheless feel an obligation, and even desire, to form and raise a family anyway, and so they march ahead and get it done, hopefully with somebody that they respect as a partner and who reciprocates the same.

        • By sallveburrpi 2025-11-2314:494 reply

          I don’t exist to produce children, tbh a very narrow view of what life can be.

          • By swatcoder 2025-11-2314:571 reply

            That's great. Indeed, many of us don't see ourselves existing for that reason, especially among people who read and post on this site.

            But many many many in the world do see it that way, and more even in the past -- when the "dad" would have been making life their life choices -- than do right now. Either partially, but significantly, or wholly.

            My comment was helping its parent recognize the influence of that way of seeing the world, as it seemed to have escaped them.

            • By mettamage 2025-11-2317:24

              Yea, solid take.

              > Marrying the person you're most attracted to or have the most fun with or whose pants you're most eager to get into is a very culturally specific practice and frankly, even where it is an aspiration, its one that a lot of people just don't luck into.

              Man, I feel this. And it's also funny that you write it in such an objective way but it's true. It _is_ a very culturaly specific practice.

              I've lucked into it. It feels amazing. But I'm lucky that I was crazy enough to really teach myself how to get over rejection and just search for as long as needed to find someone who felt the same way about me as I felt about her. Amazing character building though, it was a true rite of passage for me that started around when I was 16 and ended when I was 32 and married. Dating and being good at it, in order to be in an amazing relationship, has been an obsession of my life. This was in part because I sucked so hard at it as a young teenager. I think in earlier times I'd have settled for someone unappealing or stayed a virgin. Thank god, the internet was a thing when I was young.

          • By Forgeties79 2025-11-2317:20

            >For a lot of people,

      • By parpfish 2025-11-2316:24

        if the social pressure was strong enough to push them to get married, it would undoubtedly be strong enough to push them into making babies

    • By agumonkey 2025-11-2315:17

      I rarely judge people in these situations (sexuality or whatever the reason, there's a million different way to get stuck in a false life due to social pressure, "weakness" [aren't we all at times?]...)

      I'm just floored by the misery most people go through, the misery we inflict on each others... it's not easy to bold, to be free, to be you.

    • By ycombinete 2025-11-2313:261 reply

      Have you read John Cheever’s diaries? It’s the same story.

      I can’t really get into his fiction, but the diaries are astounding.

      He gave them to his son to read and publish posthumously.

      • By pavlov 2025-11-2315:44

        Thanks for the tip, I’ll have to read that!

    • By nobodyandproud 2025-11-2315:27

      At 57, that means he entered university during the early to mid 1980s.

      That was peak AIDS phobia (for good reason), and the anti-gay rhetoric was also at its peak.

      There was a lot more to lose coming out during those days, beyond just marriage and family cold-shoulders.

      By good reason, I mean people were panicked because people didn’t know which activities could spread the virus. Anyone else remember toilet seat fears?

    • By ericmcer 2025-11-2319:001 reply

      You can extrapolate this on to anyones life, not just someone with such a huge and dramatic secret they were hiding for the stability of their family life.

      If your parents get old/sick or you have kids or a bad relationship or you get stuck in a job or any other myriad life events occur, the weight of your own days can suddenly drain so much time and energy that years fly by. Suddenly you wake up in an aging body and your ideal life seems far away. As I get older I kind of understand the people who just flee their lives. Being saddled with responsibilities you never wanted you are forced into choosing to either strangle your own desires or be perceived as a terrible person for not fulfilling your societal obligations.

      • By ta9000 2025-11-2319:091 reply

        And this is why society is going to shit. “Live free, no regrets” has to be one of the most narcissistic memes I’ve ever heard of. If a person commits to a partner and/or a family, they shouldn’t just hit the reset button because they’re bored or upset with how life turned out. Talk to your partner. Tell them the truth. It’s wild that this has to even be said. Obvious caveats for abuse or depression, but come on. Have some grit.

        • By senordevnyc 2025-11-2319:49

          No one advocated for anything you're railing against.

    • By armchairhacker 2025-11-2314:59

      I see his actions as immoral (not as much as most violence) but could seem justified to a person in his circumstances with reasonable moral judgement.

      He grew up in a social environment where coming out as gay would make everyone around him sad and angry/ashamed at him. But he was gay, intrinsically. Eventually (possibly because of societal acceptance, possibly because he decided total suppression wasn’t worth it), he secretly broke his traditional relatives and friends’ trust by acting gay. Something most people today see as justified. But he also broke his lovers’ trust by having multiple affairs, something most people today see as unjustified.

      A caveat is that he didn’t even confide in his daughter, who is gay; he didn’t file for or allow divorce, to make things easier for his wife; and perhaps he should’ve noticed that, in the changing times, being gay became acceptable but not cheating. Again, I don’t think he was right, and I can imagine a different person in his position handling the moral disconnect better for his family, who I believe he still cared about. But my understanding is that being gay is really taboo in some cultures, and has been in many more even a couple decades ago, so I can understand him being really suspicious and assuming those taboos held more strongly for more people.

      In which case to him, doing anything gay was setting up emotional damage to many people, and every affair was just setting up damage to one more person.

    • By anal_reactor 2025-11-2313:331 reply

      My father had an affair, with a woman. It came to light but remained contained within the family. My parents are still married. The whole situation taught me that life is complicated and sometimes situations that seem morally obvious on the surface can actually be very difficult and have lots of nuance.

      When I was a teenager I dated a married man. On paper it's easier to explain "gay dude in a homophobic society" but in reality, he was an asshole and a coward. No empathy for him.

      • By caminante 2025-11-2314:061 reply

        This is the sober take.

        People will try to explain away all kinds of behaviors that violate trust a la "they'll never find out..."

        • By lazide 2025-11-2315:101 reply

          When a lot of dudes get murdered for it (historically, and currently in many places), there is also a pragmatic aspect.

          I agree on the immoral part, but I’ve seen so much immoral behavior over the years this seems (relatively) mellow.

          If you’re in the medical field, you see some wild stuff.

          • By caminante 2025-11-2317:441 reply

            I know what you're saying, but pragmatic doesn't apply here.

            We're talking about secretly dating a teenager while married with children. This is more than serving "societally taboo" urges on a transactional basis.

            • By lazide 2025-11-2319:02

              Hey, at least the teenager didn’t get pregnant, and wasn’t related? (Cringe, I know) And also seems pretty consensual, despite the age difference.

              Also, no one got murdered or blackmailed to cover it up apparently? Or even bullied into leaving town?

              Any small town has half a dozen or more of these types of stories.

    • By crossroadsguy 2025-11-2312:326 reply

      I have heard this play out too many times.

      Most recently here, a college junior's wife revealed four months after marriage that she is actually a lesbian (she didn't share it – he caught her in their bedroom with a colleague of hers when he returned home early from the office), and he would be free to do what he wants; she should be too. Hit him hard, but he said they should go for an annulment— out of question; a divorce— out of question. Her point was if she had to do all this, why would she have agreed to a marriage in the first place! It was to get society off her back and her parents.

      Well, he filed for divorce, and it resulted in false dowry cases (yes, it's that part of the world), cruelty.. a long list. He was in lock-up for almost a month and a half, his almost 80 father and 70 mother was in a case of beating her up - (they met her exactly once – two days after marriage for a day when they went to his native village and after that they barely even talked to her on phone when they came back to they city they worked in), he lost almost everything he had, and finally, he just broke down in court and, against his lawyer's advice, just told the judge to give her whatever the judge wanted and just grant him a divorce. This was after almost three or four years of struggle. This guy is damaged now. We were in two sports team together in the college. One of the gentlest people I know. He had a minor stroke recently. He has sleeping issues. He is still fighting to just stay alive. It's difficult for him to get jobs because there's police record against him. He worked for a major MNC bank and he was fired summarily.

      No, this is not an isolated cruel example of extreme and from the hinterland of the world - this is an example of people fucking others over, mercilessly. No, this is not fighting to stay afloat in the water. It's like kicking someone off the boat because they were closer to the life jacket on the boat by few feet of another available lifeboat that the person could have taken instead. No, it's actually worse!

      I am sorry for how the world treated you and him, but no, fuck no! Life fucked him – or could have fucked him, so he gets to fuck others, right? Awesome!

      > but that doesn’t mean he was a bad person.

      No, he is a bad person! Ffs.

      • By shswkna 2025-11-2314:461 reply

        There is another, third perspective one can have on this.

        One can both find good reasons and explanations for his behaviour, and at the same time his choices can be judged harshly.

        I feel we have to heed the complexity of life and the situations people end in.

        Each of us has different tendencies. Some are by nature straight shooters. Others again, overthink a situation and lack the cognitive or emotional intelligence to always arrive at the perfect answer for a situation we are in.

        Both things can be true:

        Him making a choice that seems inevitable for the situation he is in.

        Also can be true, him wasting the life of another person (his wife) and him not seeing it this way. This is a bad deed from her perspective and can remain so.

        But consider, for example, that he probably resented her and she was proxy for society’s pressure to confirm. Or, he thought that he gave her what she wanted (kids) and provided for them. In his eyes he paid his dues and got nothing out of it.

        He might have realised that if he doesn’t get those small escapes (the affairs), he might not make it. You won’t know the make up of his reward system and his emotional make up.

        When she wanted the divorce, his coping behaviours became habit. And he might not have been able to see a way out, or not have had the strength to change his reward seeking habits.

        We also don’t exactly hear how he died in detail.

        Im am not excusing him, but I am trying to be devil’s advocate to your absolutist stance, to provide a counterweight.

        • By itsalwaysgood 2025-11-2316:07

          The author refers to their dad as a coward.

          When the wife wanted to divorce, the dad recruited his mother-in-law to convince the wife to stay on the marriage.

          He was selfishly hiding information and making lifelong decisions for everyone because "he knew best."

          The dad died of a heart attack. His family was too ignorant to know a quick drive to the hospital was the best action. They didn't know because the 911 operator told them to wait for the ambulance (for legal reasons, they will not tell you to rush to the hospital. Imagine the liability of a wreck).

          There's no need to play devil's advocate. Private decisions were made, and we all have the privilege of reading about the outcome. It gives us much to consider, and not much else.

      • By l2silver 2025-11-2313:132 reply

        I think I am totally naive on this subject,

        why was the divorce so hard for him? In that society, they just don't let you get divorced unless both parties agree to it? And with the evidence he had of her being a lesbian, does that mean nothing? What is even the point of divorce in that society?

        • By mallets 2025-11-2313:26

          I'm guessing India, and it's dowry part of it that complicates things a lot. And once either party goes into legal proceedings, it becomes a shit slinging mess of he-said she-said. Hence why most people try to "settle" things out of the court even if they were the victim. You wouldn't wish the Indian legal system on your worst enemy.

        • By fakedang 2025-11-2314:09

          Because it's the great nation of India, where harassment and dowry cases and custody laws swing hard in favor of the wife. Which has resulted in the worst of both worlds - poor women who won't even see a the light of day in front of a courthouse, never mind inside it, continue to be oppressed by their husbands, while wealthy women tired of their marriages hire ever-more-eager lawyers and slap false dowry cases on their ex-husbands.

          A guy, Atul Subhash, recently (about a year ago) committed suicide because his ex-wife and her family slapped false dowry cases against him and his extremely aged parents. Another case, a woman named Jasleen Kaur falsely accused a guy of sexual harassment, because they had a minor argument on the street. That case took 4 years, and in the meantime, Jasleen went to Canada to study, received the then Chief Minister's support and never appeared in court even once. Meanwhile the guy, Savjit, was arrested, had to post bail, was called "National Predator" and "Delhi's Pervert" on mainstream media, and received zilch for all the harassment he received. After he was acquitted, he pressed criminal charges against Jasleen and her family for false accusations, but the courts threw that case away because apparently "loss of reputation" isn't enough to press charges.

          All of this in a backdrop where poor women are raped, sometimes even murdered, every single minute, while actual rapists walk free and often even freely contest and win elections on the current ruling party's ticket. Yeah, India is super fucked.

      • By geoffmanning 2025-11-2313:091 reply

        > No, he is a bad person! Ffs

        That is quite the judgement of a person you've never known, based solely on the view of one person's brief writing processing a deeply emotional experience.

        Your judgement reflects poorly on you.

        • By l2silver 2025-11-2313:254 reply

          There's too much apologizing for people's horrible actions these days. Nearly everyone is a sympathetic character when you get to know them, but that doesn't excuse them. There were other people, in his situation, who took different approaches that didn't result in locking a woman away in a loveless marriage for her entire life. I'm sure a lot of us come from easier situations, but the people who come from hard situations will probably tell you, yeah, it was hard, it was horrible, but he didn't have to do that.

          • By geoffmanning 2025-11-2313:371 reply

            I'm not apologizing for anyone's actions. This is not to say he is a good person. It is to say that there isn't enough evidence to judge one as a bad person.

            A lot of good people have made bad choices, and these writings reflect a mere sliver of a man's life choices from the very thin perspective of one person's grief laid bare.

            • By schneems 2025-11-2314:433 reply

              I agree. To me, it's like a blameless retro. You can either seek understanding or seek blame, but not both at once.

              The author seemingly had a lot of judgement and blame for the dad before finding this out. It sounds like they are seeking understanding. I think the last line makes that clear:

              > the evening we found the love letters. his entire life, and mine as well

              And it's not to say someone can't attach judgement to characters, or that no one should hold blame. But I think it's important to honor what the author is seeking.

              • By vacuity 2025-11-2315:24

                The notions of "blame", "excuse", and "forgiveness" are strange to me now. I want to say that understanding is key, and everything else follows from understanding. If I understand a person's action, I should act, according to my values, regarding that person. Consistency to one's values is also key. Any emotions, feelings, etc. should either be recognized in my values or shouldn't interfere. If I am to praise or elevate someone, I should praise or elevate that person, and the same if I should rebuke or punish someone. Any extraneous desires that would prevent me from doing what I should do are to be contained. I must understand my values, by which I will understand the world, and how I should act within that world is then determined.

              • By candybar 2025-11-2316:271 reply

                I think you're misreading that last line. I'm pretty sure what the author is saying is:

                > the evening we found the love letters my mom said to me, "he wasted his entire life, his entire life, and mine as well."

                Also, I don't think she's seeking one vs the other, nor is she judging him less now that she knows he's had a bunch of affairs. She's presenting a story and it's obvious that she has mixed feelings, full of both positive and negative judgement.

              • By 101011 2025-11-2315:082 reply

                > You can either seek understanding or seek blame, but not both at once.

                This is the first I've heard this statement (not necessarily the idea), but I found it incredibly beautiful in it's simplicity - thanks for sharing!

                Are there origins to this that you're aware of? With some searching I found some adjacent thread lines to stoicism and Buddhism, but nothing quite the same.

          • By ricardobeat 2025-11-2316:35

            Does chinese law not allow a woman to individually apply for divorce without the partner's consent, or start a court case? Seems like they were both 'locked' in similar ways.

      • By judahmeek 2025-11-2313:441 reply

        Your comment definitely made it sound like the victim/husband's suffering came from the culture they lived in, not the wife's actions directly.

        So I vote for bad system, not bad people.

        • By StopDisinfo910 2025-11-2314:592 reply

          I think marrying someone despite being attracted to the other sex without telling them and then having an affair with someone definitely makes you a bad person. But that’s me.

          • By anon84873628 2025-11-2318:07

            I can even tolerate / excuse / forgive up until that point, because it is indeed an unfair system. She took a gamble and got caught, at which point she ought to have made a deal with the guy. Not exploited the other unfair system of state violence against him.

          • By judahmeek 2025-11-2316:02

            I think judging a person's actions without considering their circumstances, which includes culture, is a mistake

      • By woodpanel 2025-11-2313:39

        Oof… obligatory HN downvotes because one dares to scratch the narrative, that it’s always women who are victims of men and never the other way around… who saw this coming?

    • By billy99k 2025-11-2315:113 reply

      "Before you judge the man in this story too harshly"

      I will judge him harshly. Instead of getting a divorce, he emotionally abused his wide and child, which probably means therapy for the child for life. He's a selfish asshole, that doesn't think about anyone but himself.

      He also could have brought diseases back home to his wife (Just hearing the stories of his selfishness, he would have kept this hidden or not even gotten tested at all).

      "The alternative was to be a laughing stock and die alone in a hospital where nurses don’t dare touch you."

      This is the worst case scenario. He could have gotten a divorce, and lived the life he wanted.

      This guy deserves zero sympathy.

      • By msteffen 2025-11-2316:35

        Not to mention the partner who he made move to another country and then still wouldn’t tell anyone about. The more I think about this post the more insanely controlling the guy seems!

      • By pavlov 2025-11-2315:54

        It’s really easy to prescribe what other people should do when you don’t have to walk a yard in their shoes.

      • By dpark 2025-11-2317:041 reply

        Where in that story did he emotionally abuse anyone? He was distant and miserable but that’s not abusive (except to himself).

        • By anon84873628 2025-11-2318:091 reply

          Um, you don't see the problem with that when it's your father / husband?

          • By dpark 2025-11-2318:18

            “Problem” is not the same thing as “abuse”.

    • By arkitct 2025-11-2313:59

      pavlov: Thank you for sharing!

  • By quitit 2025-11-2311:087 reply

    From reading both posts, there's a few things that come to my mind:

    - It seems this is how the author is processing her father's passing, and it's not really up to us to make moral calls on the content of the posts. They are thoughts with gaps of missing context against a real life of highs and lows which is not readily condensed into a blog post.

    - I'm peering into the life of a private person, that feels like a violation. Even though they have passed, the people around them are very much alive.

    - We can't makes guesses at what a person truly values, neither positively nor negatively. What can be seen as promiscuity can also be seen as seeking validation, human motives and emotions exist in the grey area.

    - This is a person who was deprived of the sort of genuine sexual and emotional attention that we take for granted from puberty age. They lived as a type of outsider in school, work, and their daily norms. The integrity of their actions shouldn't be evaluated against our own values which were likely built from a different life experience.

    - It's ok not knowing or judging. One has to practice a type of "radical acceptance" when reviewing these sorts of life matters.

    • By charles_f 2025-11-2318:38

      > It's ok not knowing or judging

      > One has to practice a type of "radical acceptance"

      Here's a funny thing, what I got from that story was that it must have been a hard and sad life for the dad, probably the mom, and especially a horrifying discovery for the mom. These are not judgments, but tidbits of empathy and sadness for all the parties involved. I didn't have to force myself into that, probably because it didn't clash with my personality or values.

      If something made you tick and you want to condemn one of the people in the story, I'm wondering if forcing your brain into "accepting" would make any difference. The real question is what you feel for the other person. I think it might come out as a judgment if it clashes with your actual values and personality. If you don't recognize yourself and would have had a different approach, you might have a negative outlook on the people in the story.

      I'm extremely lucky to be a straight dude in the progressive society of today's. Had I been a gay guy in the traditional Chinese culture of the 80s, I'd probably have had the same life as that dad, and employ some of the same strategies. So it's easy for me not to judge. But some people are more upfront, active, liberated, and for them it might be harder not to judge ; and I think that's fine.

    • By jeswin 2025-11-2312:182 reply

      > One has to practice a type of "radical acceptance" when reviewing these sorts of life matters.

      Thanks for writing this. The author is working back to define some context from which those discovered artifacts came out, and that is fraught with danger. And what she discovered might be a randomly selected sample of what he really was.

      The article almost seems like it was written to seek attention. It's a troubling transgression.

      • By wjnc 2025-11-2312:31

        She has a right to seek attention? And you are right. The truth untold and the moments that never were cannot be recounted. They can be grieved and part of grief is anger.

        I re-learned by my tears when reading this that the only thing that counts in life is love and connection. Connections not made are missed opportunities.

        I lost a parent in my early twenties. Alas, anger was a very large part of my emotional arsenal then. Writer could have had a role model in her father. If only the truth would have been there between father and daughter. Layers upon layers of difficult interactions. Thinking about your parents death and the period of time they made you, cared for you, formed you, hindered you, burdened you with emotional baggage, is different with each passing of a few springs.

      • By scydereal 2025-11-2318:06

        If it were written to seek attention in 2025, it would be on substack or twitter, not on a quiet personal website that can't go viral unless someone else posts it on hackernews

    • By noduerme 2025-11-2311:504 reply

      I agree with all of what you say, and while I thought the author was very good, I think calling him a coward was an unnecessary stroke of vanity and bitterness. For the same reason that no one can ever know what's inside another person's mind, much less a child understand their parents.

      • By fransje26 2025-11-2319:49

        > I think calling him a coward was an unnecessary stroke of vanity and bitterness.

        Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.

        In the process of grieving, when the emotions are at their rawest, it is difficult to not have knee-jerk reactions to the emotions that are piling-up fast and strong.

        Except for that very slip, I actually found the piece impressively objective, level-headed, compassionate and open-minded.

      • By ang_cire 2025-11-2319:03

        > I think calling him a coward was an unnecessary stroke of vanity and bitterness.

        I think given that the writer, who lived in the same culture with the same dangers and expectations, decided to accept the risks by coming out, I don't think it's vanity. They did what their father was too afraid to do.

        It is absolutely bitterness, but I don't think you're in any position to judge the appropriate level of bitterness for a child to have towards their deadbeat parent.

      • By anon84873628 2025-11-2318:12

        So when can we judge someone a coward then?

      • By pwillia7 2025-11-2313:11

        It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity.

    • By tgv 2025-11-2313:19

      For those reasons, I won't even look for such letters when my parents die. I will take a photo or two. There are of course reasons to dig in the past, but that should be done cautiously, not for sensation, and even then under the condition that we only know a little and may not understand. The past is past. Nothing you learn can change it, but it can seriously fuck up your future.

    • By thunky 2025-11-2317:33

      > I'm peering into the life of a private person, that feels like a violation. Even though they have passed, the people around them are very much alive.

      Absolutely. A person's right to privacy doesn't die with them.

    • By Alt-F4 2025-11-2313:305 reply

      >- This is a person who was deprived of the sort of genuine sexual and emotional attention that we take for granted from puberty age.

      This is somewhat close to the incel line of thinking "I deserve a girl to have sex with. The fact that every girl refuses to do so means I'm a victim."

      • By Dumblydorr 2025-11-2313:38

        Why link closeted gay men with Incels? There was no shade of “deserve” or “victim” in the parent comment. Fact is gay men historically have had a very bad time finding love, Incels is a weird subgroup of hateful men with negative viewpoints, unless I’m out of touch with their zeitgeist.

        I just think the comparison comes off as unkind to gay men.

      • By tsol 2025-11-2317:252 reply

        People seem to disagree with this comment but it makes sense. Lots of people get no genuine sexually or emotional attention sure to severe disabilities, cultural incompatibility, weight issues, or simply because they don't know how to socialize properly. It's odd to say they can't live a full life, just because they didn't kiss a girl in the 9th grade.

        If relationships are so key to the human experience, the incels would be right. They argue society should feel bad for them and accommodate them, because not being able to get sexual attention keeps them from having a normal life.

        Not that I agree with them, but it seems odd to place so much value on relationships, except when people complain it's a problem they can't get one. I have a severely disabled friend who talks about wanting to get married every day. No one has ever shown him that kind of affection and I don't think anyone ever will. That's life for some people unfortunately. If you keep telling them they're missing out on the most important part of life of course it just makes them more frustrated

        • By eptcyka 2025-11-2317:41

          Human relationships are a key part of most lives. Incels might have a point, but that does not imply that they have a solution to their own woes.

        • By anon84873628 2025-11-2318:15

          That's individuals deciding not to be with other individuals. It's not two people of the same sex who want to be with each other but are arbitrarily prohibited by the rest of society.

      • By johncolanduoni 2025-11-2317:17

        Most people do deserve to be able to form emotional and sexual connections, and most people that are unable to in practice are not incels and deserve sympathy without complication. They’re victims, but only in the same sense that someone can be the victim of a hurricane. The important bit is that no person has a duty to be the one to provide those connections.

      • By UniverseHacker 2025-11-2314:45

        Not at all- human connection and love are important and hard for most people to live without. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that. The problem with incels is they feel entitled to that, and use it as a basis to fuel hate towards others for denying them what they feel entitled to- and there is no sense of that sentiment in the comment you replied to.

      • By oh_my_goodness 2025-11-2314:051 reply

        I hope this comment finally seals my departure from HN. Lots of very thoughtful people here but the small toxic fraction is still too high.

        • By Tagbert 2025-11-2318:10

          Yes, there are some toxic people here, as in any community or population, but there are also thoughtful and compassionate people here. This article seems to be mostly filled with the latter. I don’t know what your experience on HN has been but I encourage you to look beyond the that unpleasent post and consider the humane majority on this pot before you make your decision.

  • By throwaway142351 2025-11-2311:5511 reply

    I'm a dad too, and I'm in a somewhat similar situation. My son is under five, and it feels like I'm still at the very beginning of his story. I've known I was gay since high school, probably even earlier, but I kept choosing whatever seemed like the easiest path. It felt easier to stay closeted. Easier to date a woman. Easier to move in together, propose, get married, and even have a child than to face my truth.

    I love my wife and my son, and I feel loved by them in return, but I'm also painfully aware that the version of me they love is someone I constructed. I lie constantly: about why I don't want sex, about my affairs, about my feelings, about my motivations. No one really knows me, and I don't get to be myself, not even in the relationships where I should feel safest.

    I've read The Courage to Be Disliked by Ichiro Kishimi and other similar books, and I'm trying to build the courage to finally do something about all of this. It's incredibly difficult. But I refuse to use my son as an excuse to keep postponing coming out. This blog has pushed me even further in that direction.

    They'll be angry (well at least my wife). Their lives will be upended. But at least they'll have the chance to ask questions, to understand. They'll see me taking responsibility for the consequences of my choices, and maybe just maybe, in some way, that clarity will be a relief for all of us.

    • By nvarsj 2025-11-2314:57

      I know it may seem like the hardest thing ever - but you are doing the right thing. Come out, end the sham, start to heal. Otherwise you are in for a life of pain. I'm not gay but I'm divorced and whatever the reason for the divorce, it is always hard. But it's so much better afterwards, rather than living in a lie of a relationship.

    • By lvl155 2025-11-2312:341 reply

      Do what’s best for your son. There’s nothing that will overcome that guilt. Not saying what’s best for your son is for you to reveal the truth now or later. That’s entirely situational and only you know.

      • By ycombinete 2025-11-2313:311 reply

        I completely agree. Life as a parent is only about oneself insofar as looking after yourself is good for your family.

        • By spongebobstoes 2025-11-2315:53

          children mimic the actions and lifestyle of their parents

          being a role model means demonstrating how to be happy

          an existence proof of a good and happy life is a powerful thing

          people learn at a young age that words are cheap. advice doesn't cut it

    • By sokka_h2otribe 2025-11-2315:56

      Consider finding a therapist and quality couples counselor to help you navigate the necessary rupture as you take steps towards honesty and clarity in your relationships

    • By jhanschoo 2025-11-2312:421 reply

      I'm pretty certain that children are quite perceptive, and will sense an unease that something is not quite right at home. It would be a service to them to put something concrete to that unease.

      • By ninetyninenine 2025-11-2314:342 reply

        I disagree. The emotional violence erupting from such a revelation would cancel out any benefit from releasing that unease.

        • By ddawson 2025-11-2315:21

          Wow, I'm reading this very differently. I don't know why there has to be emotional violence erupting. Handling something that's fundamentally changed at the core of a relationship and at the core of one's identity will bring strong emotions but it doesn't have to be violent. It can also be handled with all the best qualities we all have like patience, curiosity, support, trust. Strong relationships can grow stronger after being tested.

        • By miltonlost 2025-11-2319:00

          A kid can handle a gay parent. A kid can handle a divorce. It's not some apocaplypse.

    • By tgv 2025-11-2313:26

      Try to do it peacefully, and keep good relations. That may require a lot of preparation, time, and emotional dealing, but you're weighing your struggle with your history against two lives. It may also be in your interest, because a fighting divorce may end with you not seeing your son. That's a price I consider too high.

    • By pfdietz 2025-11-2312:284 reply

      I'm straight and love my wife of 44 years. But I long ago made the thought experiment of what would happen if she were in the same kind of situation you were in: what if she decided I was a mistake, or that being in a relation with a man was a mistake, and that she needed to do something else. I decided that would require I support her in that. How can you love someone and not want what is best for them, even if that has a cost?

      I don't know your wife, and I don't know if she would feel the same way. Maybe she would?

      • By 71bw 2025-11-2313:026 reply

        I can relate to this probably the most out of everything I've seen on HN so far. My fiancee is pansexual and overall seems to prefer women, so I surely am quite a bit of a surprise in her life (to the point where her family laughed at the fact that I 'fixed her' the first time I met them...) as a straight man. I know she loves me, I love her with all my heart but I am aware that at some point she may want to change me for someone of the opposite sex. I have therefore decided that as long as this does not happen behind my back I will support her, even if that means I have to endure a lot of pain.

        • By jemmyw 2025-11-2313:301 reply

          I don't really see why you should support that. In your case your wife is not closeted and living a lie, everything is out in the open. So deciding to change you for someone else, regardless of sex, is no different than if I decided to change my wife for another woman. We give stuff up to make a commitment to someone else. It doesn't always work out and I'm not saying people should stay together when they don't want to, but I am questioning your pre-acceptance of your partner wanting to shag someone else even though that would clearly make you very unhappy.

          • By rosstex 2025-11-2315:04

            "Prefer women" could be in a sexual context, romantic context, platonic, etc. and the commenter above didn't define it. I imagine it's hard enough for bisexual people to be asked if they're "living a lie" by having to choose a side.

        • By bad_haircut72 2025-11-2314:102 reply

          For you and anyone else reading this I recommend the book "the designer relationship" - its actually about polyamory but I think it does a great job solidifying the concept that really, a relationship between two people can be basically whatever they want it to be, not defined by social norms. What comes first is open and honest communication and negotating through hard conversations to find a way of mutually meeting everyones needs

          FWIW my wife is bi and dates women, not that really ever bothered me but in no way has it ever been more damaging to our marriage beyond basic scheduling conflicts. I will admit I would have had a much harder time opening up to her being with other men though. Im lucky that she has never fallen in love and wanted to run away with one of em I guess, but partly thats because our marriage is otherwise great and shes already free to explore her gay side so why would she want to leave?

          https://www.amazon.com/Designer-Relationships-Monogamy-Polya...

          • By hatefulmoron 2025-11-2315:092 reply

            I admit that when reading the description of your relationship (I don't mean to be disrespectful, for what it's worth) I can't help but wonder how it can possibly be consistent with "a relationship between two people can be basically whatever they want it to be." It really reads like the relationship is whatever _she_ wants it to be.

            If you had come into the relationship with the understanding that you'd both date/have sex with other people then great; it doesn't matter what other people think. However, when you say that it was hard for you to accept her being with other men, and that you're lucky that "she has never fallen in love and wanted to run away with one of em", damn. My first instinct is that you should take your own advice: find or design a relationship where you don't have to accept this.

            I realize that some of my knee jerk reaction might just be instinct/cultural values, I mean no disrespect.

            • By bad_haircut72 2025-11-2315:54

              If I didnt like it, I would leave. Reread the post though you misinterpreted our situation.

          • By ninetyninenine 2025-11-2314:382 reply

            This stuff doesn’t work for most men. Most Men aren’t ok with the idea that their partner is fucking other men. It’s literally a biological instinct.

            • By ReluctantLaser 2025-11-2315:06

              It is tough to overcome jealousy/insecurity and to have that level of trust, for anyone, I agree. Phrasing it as biological wiring, I'm not sure fits.

            • By miltonlost 2025-11-2319:02

              Between this, a post about disrespecting your wife if they have sex during an open relationship, and your other post about emotional violence being inflicted on a child if their parent comes out as gay, you need to seek some therapy. This is major incel vibes.

        • By UniverseHacker 2025-11-2314:55

          You have a right to have firm boundaries and communicate them clearly to your partner. Doing so will usually make a relationship and life together better, not worse because your partner will respect your honesty and strength. If her doing that will hurt you, I strongly recommend you communicate clearly and up front that you know she has those interests, but following up on them is a deal breaker for you, and you need her to be honest about that. You’re not even married yet, have the conversation now! It won’t be good for you or for her to be an angry shell of yourself like the dad in the article, making a sacrifice you never wanted to make.

        • By anon84873628 2025-11-2318:22

          Besides what everyone else said, just get yourself a pre-nup too :-)

        • By stronglikedan 2025-11-2317:48

          dude fuck that - cheating is cheating - don't be that guy (unless you're into that sort of thing, of course). if she feels that you aren't the one for her, drop it like it's hot. there's plenty of other fish in the sea

        • By ninetyninenine 2025-11-2314:361 reply

          That’s really noble of you. I disrespect her a lot if she does that.

      • By Arubis 2025-11-2315:13

        Lots of judgment all over this thread. I vote more of us listen to anecdotes like this one here, from someone whose long and successful relationship is based on wanting the best for someone else--who they recognize as human and fallible--even when that means change.

        If you want marriage to mean that your partner will never change, or that the 100% match on the inside what you think they are looking from the outside, you're gonna have a hard time. This discussion is just further down the continuum than most.

        (Exceptions made for arranged marriages and the like; the primary purpose there isn't romantic love-based companionship, so there isn't a pretense to shatter.)

      • By vacuity 2025-11-2315:49

        I think this is a good example of how lying can affect one's autonomy (though I don't remotely hold that as an absolute principle). In the ideal exercise of love, I agree with your claim. I don't think it's dismantled in practice, but I think it is weaker. The spouse fell in love with "someone", but it turns out it's just a dummy of the other spouse. To some extent, probably everyone only loves or even perceives imperfect images of others, but this takes it a step further. I think this is somewhat different from supporting a disabled/ill spouse, because that condition arose through no fault of anyone (presumably). I think this is also different from a spouse, sometime into the marriage, realizing a different romantic/sexual orientation, because no one could've known at the time of marriage (presumably).

      • By ryanjshaw 2025-11-2313:271 reply

        There’s a big difference between changing and lying. I wouldn’t be happy if my spouse lied to me.

        • By pfdietz 2025-11-2313:442 reply

          I wouldn't be happy either, but I'd be understanding. Everyone is human. Everyone lies, even to themselves.

          • By swat535 2025-11-2316:52

            I think you're a better person than I am.

            Obviously I can only speak for myself here but I wouldn't be so understanding, especially when my partner lied about such a fundamental aspect of their life and joined in a union of marriage with me.

            I suppose, for me it would feel like the vows they took where not real and the foundation of our life, all the memories, thoughts and feelings were nothing but smoke and mirrors.

            You're right, we're all humans and life is complex but I think it's selfish to waste your partner's life for years because you can't face the truth. I suppose that a bitter end is better than endless bitterness however.

          • By ryanjshaw 2025-11-2314:012 reply

            Not all lies are equal. Marriage is a contract built on trust and commitment. When you have been lying about that specifically, you have defrauded someone.

            You’ve stolen time and emotional energy from these people. They can never get those years back.

            Your children have been deprived of seeing parents role modeling romantic love. They have built their entire world views based on your behavior towards your spouse, which incorporated subtle lies and deception.

            The victims of your fraud now have to deal with second guessing which things you said might be true and which might be lies - you shatter everything they ever believed throughout the marriage. It is a horrendous thing to put people through.

            So can I understand why they did it? Sure. But I will definitely judge them for their actions and not support them.

            • By pfdietz 2025-11-2315:11

              It's also built on forgiveness, because no one can possibly not ever need that.

            • By ninetyninenine 2025-11-2314:42

              Exactly. I’ve even seen cases of murder where I sympathize with the perpetrator. But we need to not get too involved with the narrators plight. It’s a first person story and it’s easy to get strung along by that perspective.

              For the article and the many admissions in the thread underneath people can’t just pay attention to and sympathize with the perpetrator you need to take the next step an construct realistic avatars for his relationships and visualize the intense damage done to them as well.

    • By quacked 2025-11-2317:04

      Read The Last Psychiatrist blog.

      "If you're going to pretend to be someone, why not pretend to be someone who doesn't hit on the cocktail waitress when he's away from his family?"

      Edit: found the exact quote:

      > "I feel like I am playing a part, that I'm in a role. It doesn't feel real."

      > Instead of trying to stop playing a role-- again, a move whose aim is your happiness-- try playing a different role whose aim is someone else's happiness. Why not play the part of the happy husband of three kids? Why not pretend to be devoted to your family to the exclusion of other things? Why not play the part of the man who isn't tempted to sleep with the woman at the airport bar?

      > "But that's dishonest, I'd be lying to myself." Your kids will not know to ask: so?

      > The narcissist demands absolutism in all things-- relative to himself.

      From this article:

      https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/01/can_narcissism_be_cu...

      Note that I am not accusing you of being a narcissist, merely saying that you may find this blog very interesting.

    • By gedy 2025-11-2312:511 reply

      Since you took this path, I'd suggest you not have affairs while married. Either divorce now or consider waiting 10 years while your son really needs you.

      • By bad_haircut72 2025-11-2314:03

        Yeah if you wanna be closeted, fine - live like it then. Otherwise it proves getting your dick wet is actually more important to you than the wife and child you claim to love.

    • By brabel 2025-11-2314:29

      Do you plan to find a new relationship after you break up with your wife? Is the desire to come out because of that or because you just want to stop lying to them and be honest about who you are? I will just say that if you have a good relationship with your wife and child, perhaps it’s worth it keeping things to yourself until your son is out of the house. If you leave them, you might find yourself in terrible relationships for a long time, or you may strike luck. But as someone who never managed to have a good relationship and family I wish I had a wife who actually wants sex and children and if I had that I would never leave even if I had to sacrifice a lot. But I do want that, maybe you never really did!?

    • By ninetyninenine 2025-11-2314:326 reply

      I would take this to your grave. You made the choice and you need to stick with it. You shouldn’t have done that in the first place and because you did it the responsible thing to do is to live with the consequence.

      By marrying your wife and having a child you did a crime that I would say deserves jail time. You fucked up her entire life, lied and manipulated her, and then you had a son and you lied and manipulated his entire reality for his entire life. This is unforgivable. Others have sympathy for you and I feel for you too. But when I look at the ultimate reality of your actions what you did is reprehensible.

      I feel the same way for the man in the article but I’m more forgiving of him because of the environment he was in. For you the environment is different and much more permitting. Either way what both of you did is disgusting. And coming out now is a relief that you and your family doesn’t deserve. You staying closeted forever is an appropriate, even mild punishment for the crime you committed.

      People may think I’m being too harsh here. I’m not. You’re not understanding the amount of lives he upended with this cowardly choice.

      • By bad_haircut72 2025-11-2315:50

        I agree with the sentiment but staying quiet is not right because it takes away the rest of the wifes life. He should have the courage to tell her so she at least has a choice of what to do.

      • By Fritatta 2025-11-2316:31

        You talk like a coming-out divorce ‘upends’ a family in some unprecedented way. People get divorced all the time. Families reconfigure, children adapt, adults survive. Get a grip.

      • By miltonlost 2025-11-2319:05

        Please go to therapy.

      • By gk1 2025-11-2314:471 reply

        This comment is sickening. If this is coming from a personal hardship, I hope you find peace soon.

        • By GaryBluto 2025-11-2316:251 reply

          I don't see what's so sickening. He made his bed, now he needs to lie in it.

          • By Tagbert 2025-11-2318:17

            Why? How is it helpful to him, to his wife, or their son to live this lie of unhappiness. The lie will be more damaging than facing the truth.

      • By _dain_ 2025-11-2315:05

        this is quite unhinged. and unfair -- the wife must endure a loveless marriage, because the husband cheated?

      • By apaosjsja 2025-11-2315:131 reply

        I share this sentiment. Most in the west (especially on HN) have been conditioned to believe mercy must always be granted and justice is evil. You can’t have one without the other or society falls apart.

        As a child of a mother who cheated and ruined our family, I complete agree with you. This story filled me with disgust, and I want to live in a culture where people like this feel guilt at what they did. The sibling response here is happy to tut-tut you with the weight of progressive cultural authority behind them, as only a short sighted ideologue could. Lying of this level is bad for the family and bad for society. Protecting it is akin to protesting the removal of a cancerous tumor.

        • By array_key_first 2025-11-2315:48

          Wishing for liars to live terrible lives does not help your life. At all. It makes it worse.

          This comment and mindset is self-destructive. Yes, bad things happen - but nothing is ruined. There is no such thing as ruining, only changing. The relationship changes, the people change, and your understanding changes.

          Desperately vying for any sense of sameness, and forcing yourself to continue a life that is not true, doesn't serve you or anyone.

          Things can be good. You can get divorced and that can be a better outcome. Things can change.

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