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2026-02-1619:09130132wero-wallet.eu
Experience fast and secure digital payments with Wero’s wallet, enabling you to send and receive money between bank accounts in under 10 seconds.
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From what I've gathered, they've decided to make this completely unusable without a Google- or Apple-approved smartphone. Horrible! Are individual banks even allowed to make that an option for clients? Though even if they are, I doubt any will.
I would LOVE a PayPal alternative, but this is just not it.
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From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599074240...:
> It is not possible to use Wero via a web browser or on a computer.
Your link is broken for me.
From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599098295... it seems they don't even support phones with developer settings turned on, much less custom ROMs, rooted or jaibroken phones.
By riedel 2026-02-1622:54 And android will actually turn off certified state if you install open source apps that were not signed by a registered developer
By wolvoleo 2026-02-175:50 Oh yeah that's a complete deal-breaker. I always have developer options on and I always will. Ridiculous.
And yes there should be a web/desktop option. I don't understand why this was made so crap
By shock 2026-02-1621:03 If it works, it's by happenstance not officially. According to the link above (official FAQ):
> If the operating system is an Android variant (also called a 'custom ROM'), such as LineageOS or Pixel Experience, then the wero app can’t be installed for security reasons.
By microtonal 2026-02-1620:091 reply As long as it works on a degoogled Android phone I'm fine with it. Maybe someone in the supported countries with an GraphenOS or /e/OS phone can confirm?
Edit: for some banks it will just forward to the bank's app. So most likely it works as long as your bank supports degoogled Android, similar to how iDEAL + Tikkie works on degoogled Android with most Dutch banks.
I should've been clearer - by Google-approved, I meant that your device has to pass Google's remote attestation scheme. From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599098295...:
> I’m seeing this error message: "Your device does not meet our security requirements".
> /../ If the operating system is an Android variant (also called a 'custom ROM'), such as LineageOS or Pixel Experience, then the wero app can’t be installed for security reasons.
By breisa 2026-02-1620:24 The thing is, with most banks you aren't even allowed to use the Wero app that has this play integrity restriction. The banks integrate Wero directly into their own apps. So its mostly up to your bank.
By microtonal 2026-02-1620:42 It does not say anything about remote attestation, only rooted/unlocked phones. Most likely it works fine if you run GrapheneOS with a locked bootloader.
Many European banking apps work on degoogled Android like GrapheneOS or /e/OS fine, as long as you have locked the bootloader and USB debugging disabled.
Ah, so this EU wallet is only usable after US companies bless my device? Outstanding move!
By microtonal 2026-02-1620:241 reply This is not a wallet (the name is a bit confusing). Wero (like iDEAL, which it is partly based on), is an online payment system directly backed by your bank account. This is an app that uses the Wero system for doing P2P payments (like Tikkie in The Netherlands).
Most likely, Wero (like iDEAL) will also support alternative apps for P2P payments.
Also, Wero will support in-store payments in the future, making Google Pay/Apple Pay unnecessary [1] unnecessary, which is a big win.
[1] Strictly spoken it's unnecessary now as well, but then each bank needs to implement its own NFC app and most simply opt foor Google/Apple Pay.
I think most/many banks had their own nfc tap-to-pay solution before Google/Apple Pay came along. Any idea why the banks chose to give that up?
On Smartcards yes, maybe Android, but certainly not on iPhones. On iOS, it's only been possible to implement alternatives to Apple Pay since 17.4 (2024), and only in Europe (EEA).
By vanviegen 2026-02-1819:30 Ah, I didn't realize the landscape was different on the Apple side of things.
By TitaRusell 2026-02-1622:521 reply Because it cost money to develop and Google/Apple Pay works really, really well everywhere on the planet.
By vanviegen 2026-02-176:38 But they already had their own solutions that worked just fine. I can't see how switching to integrate a new system instead would save on dev costs. There surely must be some other reason?
By toomuchtodo 2026-02-1620:04 It can be both, the plumbing is straight forward, simply a matter of will to implement. UPI in India, Pix in Brazil, FedNow in the US, etc. Trimmings are things like paying via QR code and alias support (phone, email IDs). Pix had native alias support, Wero is alias support on top of SEPA Instant payment rails (with a ~ten second settlement SLA).
This gets you to utility cost recovery fee structures and sovereignty over your payment infra, versus other countries controlling your value transfer capabilities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_payment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/retail/instant_payments/html/...
By maelito 2026-02-1620:23 I'm using my bank's app on a fully de-googlised Lineageos (no MicroG) and Wero works.
But with another bank, when I had to install the Wero app, it didn't work at all.
By kleiba 2026-02-1620:26 Oh, awesome, thanks. For someone like me who does not own a phone, this is valuable information. Now I know that I don't have to waste my time looking into this.
That link is broken for me. I would like clarity if they support AOSP devices. That would be a meaningful departure from the status quo.
This one works for me https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599074240...
By bahmboo 2026-02-1718:40 Thanks. Android 9 is the lowest they go version wise (which is ancient, 2018) but they don't say anything about Google requirements which is the real barrier.
This is a regulatory thing, devices used for instant payments should be somehow attested and be authenticated (or be a physical device the bank issued e.g your card).
It’s a difficult thing, we don’t want to have to force smartphone choices but the number of users without one these devices is so vanishingly small it’s very difficult to change the legislation in order to support them too.
I think the happy middle ground is making this system also work with bank issued cards.
By microtonal 2026-02-1620:281 reply This is not true. Many European bank apps allow instant payments and work without Google's remote attestation. They typically require a locked bootloader. I am in The Netherlands, use GrapheneOS and do instant payments all the time.
(GrapheneOS does support remote attestation, but the app needs to add their verified boot key fingerprints.)
Which bank? I work in this space for a large european bank and we wouldn’t be able to do this.
My Volksbank app here in Germany just wants a locked boatloads and no root. Works fine with microg. It's the reason I will never move!
Though the Sparkasse is the same actually, unsure about the other german banks
By cyberpunk 2026-02-1620:49 This is great news if it’s true, these regulations are so hazy it’s maddening. Even tho I’m being downvoted I am actually on the side of removing these barriers I was just sharing what I was made to understand by my bank. shrug
By microtonal 2026-02-1620:381 reply All Dutch banks for example? I do instant online payments and P2P payments all the time with a degoogled phone. My VISA credit card app (ICS) also works fine.
You mean via your banks web interface? Or via some tap to pay interface?
What i mean is can you use this to pick up a slab of beer in albert hein, or just to transfer some cash to a friend or such?
By microtonal 2026-02-1621:081 reply I can't pick up a slab of beer at Albert Heijn because it requires Google Pay. But some banks (I think Rabobank) have their own NFC app and then it works fine.
But instant online iDEAL payments etc. work fine. Person to person payments using Tikkie/betaalverzoek as wel.
Put differently, I never use my bank's web interface, only the phone app.
By wolvoleo 2026-02-175:53 Not anymore, all Dutch banks have moved to Google/Apple pay unfortunately.
I don't see, why a smartphone plus NFC enabled token device wouldn't work within the regulation, we should go that way, (or any way decoupling Google & Co. from it) because we should be prepared for US companies to be forced to act unreasonably by an unreasonable leader.
By hocuspocus 2026-02-1620:32 There's technical possibility and then real world practicality.
For the same reason, a pure WebAuthn flow in a compliant browser could technically implement secure payment confirmation mandated by the DSP, but afaik no bank does that, and the W3C is still working on the spec.
Our governments can't even manage not to depend on Microsoft/Google/AWS (and Palantir, the US military industrial complex, Israel, ...), our banks are regularly under the fire of extraterritorial bullshit due to the USD dependence.
Being worried about consumer devices and their OS is cute, but it's missing the forest for the trees.
By cyberpunk 2026-02-1620:22 I agree, I’m not saying it’s totally correct or there aren’t answers, but those are the current rules at least in my bank.
Instant payments bypass typical surveillance and fraud systems and so need some kind of authentication, if you don’t want to 2fa every time you’re at the checkout then the application has to have been previously authenticated (e.g setup with some kinda TAN from your bank) and execute on an attested device. We can def extend attestation to other devices (e.g is the kernel modified, does the app have reasonable version and checksums etc) but again, who is gonna fund that for 10 users?
edit: We have a long road to go before this stuff gets better, I think we should be happy at each step instead of really wishing we were already at the finish.
Then I'll unfortunately have to continue paying the PayPal tax - apparently they have no issues running in any browser of my choice.
> I think the happy middle ground is making this system also work with bank issued cards.
That wouldn't let me pay online.
By cyberpunk 2026-02-1620:24 That’s authenticated and 2fa’d, so it doesn’t have the same use case as a tap to pay system, though. I’m not defending these choices, but there is a reality here.
> we don’t want to have to force smartphone choices but the number of users without one these devices is so vanishingly small
You are missing the point. The issue is that once the "vanishingly small" number of alternatives disappears, users will be completely trapped, and Google and Apple will then free to abuse that position of power (they already do). Worse, since power is centralized, it is very easy for government interference to take place, and we already see that with things such as identity and age verification requirements. It is the possibility of competition that matters more than actual competition.
Aren’t your problems solved by carrying a bit of plastic issues by your bank? Why isn’t that enough?
By drnick1 2026-02-1620:31 This "digital wallet" is precisely touted as an alternative to carrying plastic.
We really should try to understand your mentality, if only to understand why after 27 years the EU still doesn't have a PayPal alternative.
Because we don’t need it. The US banking system for example is fairly archaic. Where I live, paper checks went extinct about 30 years ago. Now with SEPA, bank transfers are cheap (cents), fast (seconds) and easy (IBAN). If our banking system would not be as convenient, I’m pretty sure something like PayPal would have been very popular.
So is it really just that simple? A lack of understanding what Paypal even is?
By hulitu 2026-02-177:46 > A lack of understanding what Paypal even is?
Your account is from 2021. There were a lot of "Paypal locked my account and all my money is in there" stories at least 10 years before that year.
So YMMV.
By hulitu 2026-02-177:43 Oh, you will underestand. When, besides your bank, half of the planet will know about your shopping habits.
The device called "Smartphone" is only used to collect every possible detail about your life. The smart thing on a "Smartphone" is that, besides your bank, a lot of other "vendors" have access (not only) to your financial information.
Can anyone explain me exactly why it is a suitable alternative to VISA and Mastercard (and why people were waiting for it). I am trying to understand the full picture here, so multiple things come to my mind.
First, SEPA instant payments already exist and are really instant up to a certain amount, and I am guessing that Wero builds on top of that a sort of identity layer, to sidestep the whole IBAN thing. But it is likely more than a SEPA alias, since it was supposedly hard to set-up.
Second, VISA and Mastercard are worldwide payment networks (or rather, they each operate payment networks with various names?). But I am failing to grasp what's hard to reproduce here too. I heard that in Europe there were only a few national alternatives, like Carte Bancaire or Girocard, but why? Is it just because banks can't agree on the design of an alternate network? But all the fees associated with using VISA or Mastercard should be a big enough incentive to push something else. (basically what's a payment network?)
And lastly, why are all the new (free) digital banks (néobanques as we call them here) relying on either Mastercard or VISA and never on Carte Bancaire for example, while it generally offers lower processing fees (and that they can be cobranded).
I think I am missing a lot of context, and I asked LLMs a while ago about these but themselves don't really explain what is the infrastructure needed to operate such a network.
By holgerschurig 2026-02-1620:231 reply Well, Visa and Mastercard are expensive and suck. The shop always has to pay them some percentage for a transaction. That adds up.
For decades, european countries like Netherlands or German had cheaper alternatives, e.g. in Germany the old "EC Card" and now "girocard". That costs a shop just a fixed amount of cent... and a very low amount.
(That is BTW one of THE reasons why US travellers won't see "Credit cards accepted" in every store ... our alternatives are just cheaper, so the market decided)
Also, Visa and Mastercard as US companies. So they are sniffing on all european transactions.
And it happened more than once that US companies tried to execute bullshit US laws in Europe. Example: there was once an german online shop that sold cuban cigars. Eventually the US website that hosted the shop said "Oh, that's not allowed" --- despite it perfectly legal by german law. And they didn't just delete this cuban cigars, they disabled the whole shop, with IIRC 20000 EUR positive balance. And the shop owner didn't even get his money, since their customer service sucked and was only automated response and untrained indian call center clerks.
So no, we cannot really depend on US services. They are expensive, they customer service sucks, they are sniffing either directly or let the NSA sniff everything.
And, bank-wise the USA seems to be some decades back (not online-bank-wise!). I mean, they still have pay cheques? Not direct bank transfers? Shudder. No wonder that, if they have no alternatives, they think everything must be Visa or Mastercard operated.
By pepa65 2026-02-196:42 I am sure they have no direct transfer because of the credit card lobby... Just trying to keep screwing their customers as usual.
It's really simple.
You're in the Netherlands, and you are going to buy something in an on-line store. Steam perhaps, or any Dutch retailer.
You put the game in your Steam cart, and go to pay. You select Ideal (which Steam provides as an option), you pick your bank, and you follow the on-screen instructions (but you probably do that pretty much automatically). Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app on your smartphone where you confirm the amount and recipient, but you can use a physical card reader with your debit card for an OTP to use as well and do it in your bank's online environment in the browser.
That process is what the whole of Europe wants (Wero builds on the Dutch Ideal). It is stupid simple, and once you've used it you don't want to deal with credit cards and bank transfers for buying a thing on-line any more.
That's all there is to it. There is a whole country which already does this, and it works so well everyone wants it. No major US companies needed (big plus these days), and no parasites like Klarna either. Just an easy way to pay a shop using your bank account, just like you use a debit card in physical stores do the same.
By microtonal 2026-02-1620:33 That process is what the whole of Europe wants (Wero builds on the Dutch Ideal). It is stupid simple, and once you've used it you don't want to deal with credit cards and bank transfers for buying a thing on-line any more.
Can confirm. I almost never pay by card because iDEAL is simply much smoother and even many Shopify/Stripe shops offer it as a payment option nowadays. Getting this on all European webshops, for P2P payments (like Tikkie in The Netherlands), and in-store payments is just fantastic.
> Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app on your smartphone where you confirm the amount and recipient, but you can use a physical card reader with your debit card for an OTP
This seems to be mobile-centric system that essentially requires a cell phone, and probably one blessed by Google or Apple. The app will probably leak a huge amount of meta data, far more than a credit card (especially a privacy-oriented prepaid one). This kind of "solution" is dead on arrival as far as I am concerned.
Did you miss the whole part where op talks about using your physical card as an alternative?
By sghitbyabazooka 2026-02-178:361 reply who's paying for the card reader at home?
By Freak_NL 2026-02-1712:35 My bank is. It is part of their service. Obviously I pay a service charge, but the card reader is not charged separately. The card reader serves a purpose for the bank as well, because it acts as a back-up for when people lose their smartphone (by stupidity or theft), or when their app is having issues.
By haagch 2026-02-1915:47 > but you can use a physical card reader with your debit card for an OTP to use as well and do it in your bank's online environment in the browser.
That's nice for ideal users, but Wero here in Germany is completely exclusive to mobile banking apps.
I have yet to see any actual confirmation in any way that ideal will keep the alternative web based payment once they fully merge with Wero. On the one hand, EPI never puts out any concrete info, on the other hand no Journalist ever seems to ask EPI representatives the important questions.
How is that better than a card payment? Cards are accepted by far more merchants, have dispute rights, are inexpensive (in Europe) to process, supported by Apple & Google Pay, superior checkout experience, etc.
By wongarsu 2026-02-1620:34 I've never used their dispute system, and I don't think that holds much value in Europe. At least in Germany a contract is a contract, if I claw back the payment the other party will just start the collections process. A process that has teeth and generally will recover the money from me, worst case by garnishing wages.
On the other hand Visa and MasterCard are not neutral actors. They have used their market power in the past to pressure merchants to change according to American moral values. And with the current administration I have little faith that this will stay at moral values
By microtonal 2026-02-1620:37 The whole flow is so much better than card purchases, where you have to enter all the data (or see your password manager's autofill fail) and then you have to go to your credit card provider's app to acknowledge the transaction.
Cards are accepted by far more merchants,
The vast majority of Dutch online transactions are done because pretty much every Dutch online shop supports it. Also many international shops through Shopify and Stripe. Many Dutch online shops do not support credit card payments. So iDEAL is the far lower friction option here. And there is no American company in between (at least for most national payments). It's great to see this system, that served us two decades by now finally get rolled out across Europe. They tried it before in the early 2010s, but the non-Dutch banks were fighting turf wars.
By ceronman 2026-02-1620:40 1. Credit cards are not that common. People usually have debit cards. Those can sometimes be used online but they're not widely accepted. My debit card is Maestro, which is not accepted in many places.
2. Even with my Mastercard credit card, the process is still inconvenient. For small purchases, it's fine. But for larger ones, there is an annoying second factor authentication, I have to enter a special password, and the wait to receive an SMS.
3. Visa and Mastercard fees. Most of the time these are paid by the merchant. But sometimes the customer has to pay more if the payment method is credit card. Some places don't accept these at all.
In general iDEAL is simple, secure and convenient. Not only to pay online, but also for example for splitting a bill with friends. I'm very happy to see this being adopted more widely in Europe.
Cards are reliant on US companies -> Visa / Mastercard. The European Payment Initiative wants to remove reliance on the US. Perhaps there can be a ECB payment rail/network that would support cardlike payments too.
So it's mainly a nationalism thing? Is that enough to displace the superior option?
By andor 2026-02-1710:31 It's not really nationalism since this is a European effort across multiple countries. But for all of them, it will improve the national security posture.
The only superior aspect of Visa/Mastercard payments is that they are more widely accepted, and that's something that can be changed.
By hocuspocus 2026-02-1620:53 I don't see where card schemes are inherently superior in the age of NFC payments.
There are huge countries (China, India, Brazil, ...) where people moved from cash to mobile payments.
Europe has always been in the forefront of this space, Swish exists since 2012, it's about time we get a pan-European solution.
By MilaM 2026-02-1620:37 You should not be distracted by the fact that SEPA Instant payments are used as the clearing mechanism. The Wero (EPI) backend IS the payment network and provides the messaging layer between the customer's bank and the merchant. Payment processors can interface with Wero and provide payment services for merchants in much the same way as they offer credit card payments.
Sepa-inst requires 10 seconds or less end to end, this isn’t as easy as it sounds to implement, but we are kind of there.
The problem is how do you initiate this payment? Some kind of scannable code or nfc interaction seems to be the missing part. I’d also like to see some kind of physical card also work for those who don’t want or are unable to have an attestable device with them.
I‘d love if every receipt had an EPC QR code on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPC_QR_code
You scan it with your banking app and have all the details. But it’s not super seamless. If you find this code on a website on your phone, you have to screenshot the code and load it in the app. Would be nice if there was some kind of deep-link standard.
By pbreit 2026-02-1620:15 Industry observer Dwayne Gefferie took a stab at it (although I'm still highly skeptical): https://dwaynegefferie.substack.com/p/epi-european-payments-...
I think they are hoping wero would one day work in countries worldwide as competition to visa/mastercard.
EU local payments already work instantly and feeless in many countries through SEPA. Lot of these countries are already on trajectory to gradually get off visa/mastercard for domestic payments as every ecommerce store pushes SEPA as the default payment to save on fees.
By hocuspocus 2026-02-1621:07 There's no need for a worldwide solution, federation and interoperability between major schemes are enough.
The same way AliPay can be used in most Asian countries already, we can imagine a world where EPI, UPI, Pix and so on interoperate smoothly.
I assume Visa and MC will try to remain walled off as the US are a big and slow mover in this space, until they'll need to open up as well.
Note: payments (unlike transfers) are never really zero fees, for good reasons.
For the neobanks I think it's very easy to explain: Their customers need Visa or Mastercard. No Visa/Mastercard? No retail customers. It's as simple as that. Any other payment scheme is a bonus thing that can be put on the backlog.
That's a chicken/egg problem. It's going to be really easy to circumvent. Just make an EU card provider and mandate that it has to be accepted everywhere in the EU. Then users will want it and a critical mass will be created for vendors outside the EU to accept it as well.
By hocuspocus 2026-02-1711:191 reply EPI initially wanted to become a card scheme but quickly gave up.
Plastic cards are yesterday's battle, many national schemes exist in large European countries (CB in France, Girocard in Germany, ...) and would be hard to overhaul.
Focusing on mobile payments makes sense. Once a critical mass is reached (Austria, Benelux, France, Germany) there's a clear incentive for other players to work on interoperability, even if the pricing structure might be very different.
Plastic cards no but they are also the underlying layer of digital PoS payments of course. They also use credit card numbers and infrastructure. This is the problem. Every time I buy something in a shop it goes through an American company.
By hocuspocus 2026-02-1713:01 That's the thing, if you pay with a French payment card (plastic or through Apple/Google Pay) in France, it's processed by the domestic network CB. This is also true in other European countries with their respective networks. EPI tried to bring a new pan-European card scheme that would have superseded those, it didn't work out.
On the other hand, there's a significant chunk of the population that just pays using their mobile phone. They don't care about cards, numbers (which are going to disappear anyway), or the legacy infrastructure behind that.
The merchant/processor/issuer network with all the correct incentives is (nearly) impossible to replicate. Visa and Mastercard work more or less, perfectly.
The only entities that need/want "instant, non-recourse payments" are fraudsters.
By globalise83 2026-02-1620:45 In the EU countries with local instant bank payments schemes they are much more popular with consumers than credit cards when paying attrusted merchants, who in turn pay around a quarter in fees of what they'd have to pay for cards. No need for expensive credit cards schemes in Europe any more.
By notorandit 2026-02-1619:55 Europe? It's available only in Germany, Belgium and France. That are IN Europe but are not THE Europe.
https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/37991694065...
I hope we'll get there soon.
