
Iranian women make up 58% of PhD Students. Tuition is Free. So Why is the U.S. Lecturing Iran about Women’s Rights?
Start with the per-capita number that Western media will never print.
Iran’s own Ministry of Science data shows 266,213 students currently enrolled in PhD programs in a country of 92 million people.
That is 1 in every 346 Iranians enrolled in a PhD program right now. In the United States, with roughly 200,000 doctoral students across a population of 335 million, the figure is 1 in every 1,675 Americans. Iran has nearly 5 times more PhD students per capita than the United States.
UNESCO data shows women account for approximately 35% of STEM graduates in Iran. In the United States, women made up 12.7% of STEM graduates as of 2021.
In engineering, Iran’s female enrollment has ranked first in the world.
In science fields, second globally.
At the doctoral level, approximately 58% of students in Iranian professional doctoral programs are women. In the United States, that figure is 56%. That puts roughly 130,000 women currently enrolled in PhD programs in Iran.
Iran achieved this with free public university tuition for citizens. The United States achieved it while women absorb 64% of all student loan debt.
UNESCO now estimates female youth literacy at 99%. Between 1991 and 2007, female enrollment in Iranian public universities rose from 28% to 58%, with women growing 4.3 times faster than men. By 2015, women were over 70% of all Iranian university students.
Hundreds of thousands of Iranian women compete annually in the Konkour PhD entrance exam.
Historically around 4% of applicants gain admission. The bottleneck is capacity, not the women.
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The United States ranks 34th globally in mathematics among 81 countries in the 2022 PISA assessment.
U.S. math scores dropped 13 points — the steepest recorded decline in the survey’s history for the country. Fewer than 1 in 10 U.S. students scored at an advanced level in math.
Approximately 21% of American adults — 43 million people — are functionally illiterate. Adult literacy scores dropped 12 points since 2017. 28% of U.S. adults now score at Level 1 or below, up from 19% in 2017.
Getting a PhD in the United States means, for most people, serious debt. New doctoral graduates with student debt typically owe $100,000 or more. The federal student loan balance has tripled since 2007, from $516 billion to $1.67 trillion. Graduate students are about 16% of enrolled students but hold 47% of all federal student loan debt.
Western media coverage of Iranian women focuses almost entirely on legal restrictions and political repression. The educational data above gets fuck all coverage. That’s a choice.
The framing of Iranian women as victims in need of rescue does specific political work.
It provides moral justification for sanctions, isolation, and military pressure. Data showing Iranian women outperforming American women in STEM by a factor of nearly three doesn’t support that case, so it doesn’t get reported.
That brain drain is real and serious. It is also substantially driven by sanctions and Iran’s exclusion from international academic networks — the direct result of policies sold, in part, on the basis of women’s rights.
The women doing the leaving are the same women who outcompete their peers globally in STEM, who fill doctoral programs at rates matching the United States, and who went from 60% illiteracy to 99% youth literacy in under fifty years.
That context is almost never included.
Sources: Iranian Statistical Centre · UNESCO · Borgen Project · NSF/NCSES · AAUW · University World News · NCBI/PMC · World Bank · NCES PISA · NCES PIAAC · Federal Student Aid · New York Fed · Urban Institute · Tehran Times
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>Data showing Iranian women outperforming American women in STEM by a factor of nearly three doesn’t support that case, so it doesn’t get reported.
I thought the standard explanation for this was that in patriarchal societies women get "hard" degrees because that's their only way out of being oppressed as a housewife, and in more egalitarian societies women pursue what they like?
That was my thought as well, but all I know is hearsay.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, either. Whether women excel in science and medicine is not the sole indicator of their status in society.
But it is one objective indicator in the right direction.
No it isn't. IT IS A WAY OUT.
The west only accepts Iranian women with degrees (same for men, same for any other place for that matter, if they accept anyone at all, and for obvious reasons Russia is out, especially for men)
In other words, yes, the islamic revolution is making women smarter. Men too, but not to the same degree. But in the worst way possible. By putting a gun to their head and torturing them non-stop, then effectively letting the smartest 5% out.
Yes regime apologists want to call that "making women smarter" because "torturing women", what islam actually does, sounds ... unlikely to gather support for stopping the war and it's not like they care about these women.
Not sure its a standard explanation, but i recall reading a couple of research articles about that topic.
I think it is kind of a paradox which is clearly visible in some progressive Scandinavian countries like Sweden or Denmark.
Except what you are saying doesn’t really make sense and is implicitly sexist. You are assuming women in those countries don’t enjoy studying these subjects.
Also, to pursue a hard STEM degree or phd would detract from being a housewife, so no “oppressive” husband would allow that in the first place. Ergo the women pursuing these paths are not oppressed in the first place.
> You are assuming women in those countries don’t enjoy studying these subjects.
It does not assume that. Even with equal enjoyment of multiple subjects, there's a lot of other factors that affect what you study. And you can enjoy subjects that aren't your favorite.
> Also, to pursue a hard STEM degree or phd would detract from being a housewife, so no “oppressive” husband would allow that in the first place. Ergo the women pursuing these paths are not oppressed in the first place.
What percent of the women in these programs are already married? That counterargument only applies to women that currently have husbands, not women worried about future husbands.
It absolutely does assume that. There is an implicit assumption in their argument that women are doing something they don’t want to due to “oppression”.
The percent of women being married is irrelevant. Women can be oppressed even if they are not married due to societal expectations. If a single woman is expected not to pursue education and simply become a housewife, then it’s irrelevant whether she is married or not. She is oppressed. However, that is literally a contradiction because STEM education shows high representation of women in Iran.
Honestly there are a lot of people here asserting what they think are facts who don’t have the slightest idea how the world works outside their own city, let alone country. I would encourage some critical thinking when it comes to stuff like this.
I have an anecdata where it was true: Angela Merkel. She studied physics not because it was her favorite but because in the system that she lived (GDR) it made more sense than social studies or politics.
But she wasn’t oppressed. She made a choice freely and was able to decide what would allow her to pursue a career and get ahead and actually end up becoming the de facto leader of the EU.
The OP is suggesting women are becoming highly educated in technically difficult fields due to oppression. It makes literally no sense. Either they are oppressed and cannot get ahead, or maybe they are able to freely pursue education contradicting the original assertion.
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Can't people decide for themselves what matters?
Life is a short few trips around the sun, then eternal annihilation.
If you really want to ascribe "value" to it: prosperity tends to create chill attitudes. You see this in individuals (nepotism) and in societies. It's just evolutionary economics: genes, ideas, species spend in times of plenty, save in times of drought.
Is that the excuse for the life of online dating apps and only fans? You're destroying the society which your "conservative" "backward" forefathers built.
> You're destroying the society which your "conservative" "backward" forefathers built.
“The dead should not rule the living" —- Thomas Jefferson
> maybe you shouldn't be lecturing "patriarchal backward societies"?
It's perfectly fair to criticize modern Iran. Particularly when it comes to mis-allocating its skilled population and history.
Look at it from the perspective of fitness: if Iran had let these women study and work freely, and had invested its resources in growing its economy instead of a dud of a nuclear programme, might it–not Israel–be the region's hegemon?
> That's why developing countries have many STEM graduates
Number of scientists and engineers per capita is directly propotional to GDP per capita [1].
[1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/GDP-per-capita-vs-number...
> Number of scientists and engineers per capital is directly propotional to GDP per capital [1].
I meant the fraction. Do you have a plot of number of college gradutates on the same axes? I am sure it will be a steeper line.
> meant the fraction
Decent hypothesis, but not substantiated.
In 2020 the fraction of graduates who were STEM in China was 41%, Russia 37%, Germany 36%, Iran 33%, India 30%, and France 26% [1]. If we take the eleven countries in that article's GDP per capita, we find no statistically-significant relationship.
[1] https://cset.georgetown.edu/article/the-global-distribution-...
Thanks for correcting me -- the correlation is weaker than I would expect; though I will stand by my original commentary on the broader cultural issues.
It would be interesting to contrast how much of them are STEM vs other "real world degrees" that get a job (accounting, hotel management or whatever) vs the "liberal arts" degrees.
> The WEF report identified China, India, the United States, Russia, Iran, Indonesia, and Japan as the top seven STEM graduate-producing countries in the world.
I think the US (and probably Germany too) is an outlier here because of the number of immigrants who arrive to study STEM degrees.
> think the US (and probably Germany too) is an outlier here because of the number of immigrants who arrive to study STEM degrees
"About 30 percent of STEM degree holders living in the United States are immigrants" [1].
So sigificant as a fraction of immigrants. But not particularly meaningful to the trend. (I suspected the effect you hypothesise might exist within countries. But alas, higher-income households produce more STEM graduates [2].)
[1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/stem-immigration-diversity-gaps#:~...
[2] https://www.brookings.edu/articles/economic-inequalities-amo...
Iran did suspend the nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief. What happened to that deal again?
> Iran did suspend the nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief. What happened to that deal again?
It got torn up, which is a shame. That said, Tehran made the choices to (a) resume work on a nuclear weapon, (b) endorse Hamas and the October 7 attacks, (c) half ass their negotiations in Geneva and now (d) attack all of their neighbors.
Those were major miscalculations. Layered on top of lots of little ones, e.g. ordering Hezbollah to blow its armory on symbolic rocket attacks. The JCPoA was a good deal. That doesn't make the current regime in Iran a smart actor.
Its damned if you do, damned if you don't as long as Israel effectively dominates USA middle east policy.
If they negotiate, the deal gets torn up at best, or they get attacked during negotiations at worst. If they maintain any sort of self-defense capability, that's seen as a threat to Israel.
If they shoot back after we bomb 150 schoolgirls, they're the aggressor.
> damned if you do, damned if you don't as long as Israel effectively dominates USA middle east policy
Sort of. Israel is the Middle East's regional hegemon. And America is a superpower. Picking both as national enemies was and remains a strategic blunder.
> If they negotiate, the deal gets torn up at best, or they get attacked during negotiations at worst
Again, the deal getting torn up is sad. But it's within the context of decades of antagonism towards powerful enemies. And nobody serious (other than Iran and Oman) seem to be claiming that Iran was open to giving up its nuclear ambitions in Geneva.
> If they maintain any sort of self-defense capability, that's seen as a threat to Israel
They literally chant death to Israel and fund the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah who want to eradicate it. (Weapons aren't inherently offensive or defensive, though they can tend to be more useful as one versus another. Ballistic missiles and nuclear bombs are closer to inherently offensive than inherently defensive.)
> If they shoot back after we bomb 150 schoolgirls, they're the aggressor
Nobody serious claims this. What they are doing by shooting back (and not surrendering) is continuing a losing cycle of violence.
The only thing looser than America's theory of victory in this war is Iran's.
Note: when Iran started shooting at Bahrain, Oman and Azerbaijan, it was the aggressor. Someone shooting at you doesn't mean carte blanche for blowing up non-belligerants.
You seem really invested in talking your way around Iran being attacked, repeatedly, while they try to negotiate co-existence.
Would you do this for Ukraine also? Maybe they should have pre-emptively submitted and disarmed to prevent war?
Happy to explain this one as I have relatives from there. The only way to leave and get a visa abroad is to study elsewhere.
I witnessed this myself in the daughter of family friends whose eyes were dead and even though we met her, every second of her thoughts were dedicated to studying so she could GTFO as fast as humanly possible.
It's that, or stay in Iran. What would you choose?
This is not limited to Iran. Many Islamic countries have very high female participation in STEM because these degrees grant women greater freedoms. Iran (and most Muslim countries) is not Afghanistan; women do have a certain degree of freedom, and in some countries it's considerable.
Another point about STEM: families are more likely to accept, and even encourage, their women to go abroad and study. This is strictly STEM-specific: something like music or cinema wouldn't be accepted and would be social suicide. In my opinion, this is the very reason women push so hard in STEM in these countries.
It's still worth noting that the Iranian government isn't against its people or women pursuing higher education. They definitely encourage it (it's free!). They just want their people to align with their ideals and contribute to their goals.
The assumption/view that STEM nerds don't fuck is hilarious.
I'm not commenting on the validity of it or anything, it's just funny.