Meta’s former chief AI scientist has long argued that human-level AI will come from mastering the physical world, not language. His new startup, AMI, aims to prove it.
Advanced Machine Intelligence (AMI), a new Paris-based startup cofounded by Meta’s former chief AI scientist Yann LeCun, announced Monday it has raised more than $1 billion to develop AI world models.
LeCun argues that most human reasoning is grounded in the physical world, not language, and that AI world models are necessary to develop true human-level intelligence. “The idea that you’re going to extend the capabilities of LLMs [large language models] to the point that they’re going to have human-level intelligence is complete nonsense,” he said in an interview with WIRED.
The financing, which values the startup at $3.5 billion, was co-led by investors such as Cathay Innovation, Greycroft, Hiro Capital, HV Capital, and Bezos Expeditions. Other notable backers include Mark Cuban, former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, and French billionaire and telecommunications executive Xavier Niel.
AMI (pronounced like the French word for friend) aims to build “a new breed of AI systems that understand the world, have persistent memory, can reason and plan, and are controllable and safe,” the company says in a press release. The startup says it will be global from day one, with offices in Paris, Montreal, Singapore, and New York, where LeCun will continue working as a New York University professor in addition to leading the startup. AMI will be the first commercial endeavor for LeCun since his departure from Meta in November 2025.
LeCun’s startup represents a bet against many of the world’s biggest AI labs like OpenAI, Anthropic, and even his former workplace, Meta, which believe that scaling up LLMs will eventually deliver AI systems with human-level intelligence or even superintelligence. LLMs have powered viral products such as ChatGPT and Claude Code, but LeCun has been one of the AI industry’s most prominent researchers speaking out about the limitations of these AI models. LeCun is well known for being outspoken, but as a pioneer of modern AI that won a Turing award back in 2018, his skepticism carries weight.
LeCun says AMI aims to work with companies in manufacturing, biomedical, robotics, and other industries that have lots of data. For example, he says AMI could build a realistic world model of an aircraft engine and work with the manufacturer to help them optimize for efficiency, minimize emissions, or ensure reliability.
AMI was cofounded by LeCun and several leaders he worked with at Meta, including the company’s former director of research science, Michael Rabbat; former vice president of Europe, Laurent Solly; and former senior director of AI research, Pascale Fung. Other cofounders include Alexandre LeBrun, former CEO of the AI health care startup Nabla, who will serve as AMI’s CEO, and Saining Xie, a former Google DeepMind researcher who will be the startup’s chief science officer.
The Case for World Models
LeCun does not dismiss the overall utility of LLMs. Rather, in his view, these AI models are simply the tech industry’s latest promising trend, and their success has created a “kind of delusion” among the people who build them. “It's true that [LLMs] are becoming really good at generating code, and it's true that they are probably going to become even more useful in a wide area of applications where code generation can help,” says LeCun. “That’s a lot of applications, but it’s not going to lead to human-level intelligence at all.”
LeCun has been working on world models for years inside of Meta, where he founded the company’s Fundamental AI Research lab, FAIR. But he’s now convinced his research is best done outside the social media giant. He says it’s become clear to him that the strongest applications of world models will be selling them to other enterprises, which doesn’t fit neatly into Meta’s core consumer business.
As AI world models like Meta’s Joint-Embedding Predictive Architecture (JEPA) became more sophisticated, “there was a reorientation of Meta’s strategy where it had to basically catch up with the industry on LLMs and kind of do the same thing that other LLM companies are doing, which is not my interest,” says LeCun. “So sometime in November, I went to see Mark Zuckerberg and told him. He’s always been very supportive of [world model research], but I told him I can do this faster, cheaper, and better outside of Meta. I can share the cost of development with other companies … His answer was, OK, we can work together.”
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Justifiable.
There are a lot more degrees of freedom in world models.
LLMs are fundamentally capped because they only learn from static text -- human communications about the world -- rather than from the world itself, which is why they can remix existing ideas but find it all but impossible to produce genuinely novel discoveries or inventions. A well-funded and well-run startup building physical world models (grounded in spatiotemporal understanding, not just language patterns) would be attacking what I see as the actual bottleneck to AGI. Even if they succeed only partially, they may unlock the kind of generalization and creative spark that current LLMs structurally can't reach.
I don't understand this view. How I see it the fundamental bottleneck to AGI is continual learning and backpropagation. Models today are static, and human brains don't learn or adapt themselves with anything close to backpropagation. World models don't solve any of these problems; they are fundamentally the same kind of deep learning architectures we are used to work with. Heck, if you think learning from the world itself is the bottleneck, you can just put a vision-action LLM on a reinforcement learning loop in a robotic/simulated body.
By zelphirkalt 2026-03-1011:236 reply > I don't understand this view. How I see it the fundamental bottleneck to AGI is continual learning and backpropagation. Models today are static, and human brains don't learn or adapt themselves with anything close to backpropagation.
Even with continuous backpropagation and "learning", enriching the training data, so called online-learning, the limitations will not disappear. The LLMs will not be able to conclude things about the world based on fact and deduction. They only consider what is likely from their training data. They will not foresee/anticipate events, that are unlikely or non-existent in their training data, but are bound to happen due to real world circumstances. They are not intelligent in that way.
Whether humans always apply that much effort to conclude these things is another question. The point is, that humans fundamentally are capable of doing that, while LLMs are structurally not.
The problems are structural/architectural. I think it will take another 2-3 major leaps in architectures, before these AI models reach human level general intelligence, if they ever reach it. So far they can "merely" often "fake it" when things are statistically common in their training data.
Humans are notoriously bad at formal logic. The Wason selection task is the classic example: most people fail a simple conditional reasoning problem unless it’s dressed up in familiar social context, like catching cheaters. That looks a lot more like pattern matching than rule application.
Kahneman’s whole framework points the same direction. Most of what people call “reasoning” is fast, associative, pattern-based. The slow, deliberate, step-by-step stuff is effortful and error-prone, and people avoid it when they can. And even when they do engage it, they’re often confabulating a logical-sounding justification for a conclusion they already reached by other means.
So maybe the honest answer is: the gap between what LLMs do and what most humans do most of the time might be smaller than people assume. The story that humans have access to some pure deductive engine and LLMs are just faking it with statistics might be flattering to humans more than it’s accurate.
Where I’d still flag a possible difference is something like adaptability. A person can learn a totally new formal system and start applying its rules, even if clumsily. Whether LLMs can genuinely do that outside their training distribution or just interpolate convincingly is still an open question. But then again, how often do humans actually reason outside their own “training distribution”? Most human insight happens within well-practiced domains.
> The Wason selection task is the classic example: most people fail a simple conditional reasoning problem unless it’s dressed up in familiar social context, like catching cheaters.
I've never heard about the Wason selection task, looked it up, and could tell the right answer right away. But I can also tell you why: because I have some familiarity with formal logic and can, in your words, pattern-match the gotcha that "if x then y" is distinct from "if not x then not y".
In contrast to you, this doesn't make me believe that people are bad at logic or don't really think. It tells me that people are unfamiliar with "gotcha" formalities introduced by logicians that don't match the everyday use of language. If you added a simple additional to the problem, such as "Note that in this context, 'if' only means that...", most people would almost certainly answer it correctly.
Mind you, I'm not arguing that human thinking is necessarily more profound from what what LLMs could ever do. However, judging from the output, LLMs have a tenuous grasp on reality, so I don't think that reductionist arguments along the lines of "humans are just as dumb" are fair. There's a difference that we don't really know how to overcome.
Quoting the Wikipedia article's formulation of the task for clarity:
> You are shown a set of four cards placed on a table, each of which has a number on one side and a color on the other. The visible faces of the cards show 3, 8, blue and red. Which card(s) must you turn over in order to test that if a card shows an even number on one face, then its opposite face is blue?
Confusion over the meaning of 'if' can only explain why people select the Blue card; it can't explain why people fail to select the Red card. If 'if' meant 'if and only if', then it would still be necessary to check that the Red card didn't have an even number. But according to Wason[0], "only a minority" of participants select (the study's equivalent of) the Red card.
[0] https://web.mit.edu/curhan/www/docs/Articles/biases/20_Quart...
People in everyday life are not evaluating rules. They evaluate cases, for whether a case fits a rule.
So, when being told:
"Which card(s) must you turn over in order to test that if a card shows an even number on one face, then its opposite face is blue?"
they translate it to:
"Check the cards that show an even number on one face to see whether their opposite face is blue and vice versa"
Based on this, many would naturally pick the blue card (to test the direct case), and the 8 card (to test the "vice versa" case).
They wont check the red to see if there's an odd number there that invalidates the formulation as a general rule, because they're not in the mindset of testing a general rule.
Would they do the same if they had more familiarity with rule validation in everyday life or if the had a more verbose and explicit explanation of the goal?
Yeah maybe if you phrased it as "Which card(s) must you turn over in order to ensure that all odd-numbered cards are blue?" you'd get a better response?
By layla5alive 2026-03-134:37 Even*
By j4k0o 2026-03-1114:04 Exactly. We invented rule-based machines so that we could have a thing that follows rules, and adheres strictly to them, all day long.
Im not sure why people keep comparing machine-behaviour to human's. Its like Economic models that assume perfect rationality... yeah that's not reality mate.
By Yizahi 2026-03-1112:16 I've confidently picked 8+blue and is now trying to understand why I personally did that. I think that maybe the text of the puzzle is not quite unambiguous. The question states "test a card" followed by "which cards", so this is what my brain immediately starts to check - every card one by one. Do I need to test "3"? No, not even. Do I need to test "8"? yes. Do I need to test "blue"? Yes, because I need to test "a card" to fit the criteria. And lastly "red" card also immediately fails verification of a "a card" fitting that criteria.
I think a corrected question should clarify in any obvious way that we are verifying not "a card" but "a rule" applicable to all cards. So a needs to be replaced with all or any, and mention of rule or pattern needs to be added.
By Ajedi32 2026-03-1114:05 It also doesn't explain why people don't think it necessary to check the 3 to make sure it's not blue (which it would be if "if" meant "if and only if").
Agree with much of your comment.
Though note that as GP said, on the Wason selection task, people famously do much better when it's framed in a social context. That at least partially undermines your theory that its lack of familiarity with the terminology of formal logic.
By Ajedi32 2026-03-1114:01 Maybe the social version just creates a context where "if x then y" obviously does not include "if not x then not y". Everyone knows people over the drinking age can drink both alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks, so you obviously don't have to check the person drinking the soft drink to make sure they aren't an adult.
By the_mar 2026-03-113:18 I for the life of me could not solve the <18 example from wikipedia. but the number/color one is super easy
By perfmode 2026-03-1117:12 I think we're actually closer to agreement than it might seem.
You're right that the Wason task is partly about a mismatch between how "if" works in formal logic and how it works in everyday language. That's a fair point. But I think it actually supports what I'm saying rather than undermining it. If people default to interpreting "if x then y" as "if and only if" based on how language normally works in conversation, that is pattern-matching from familiar context. It's a totally understandable thing to do, and I'm not calling it a cognitive defect. I'm saying it's evidence that our default mode is contextual pattern-matching, not rule application. We agree on the mechanism, we're just drawing different conclusions from it.
Your own experience is interesting too. You got the right answer because you have some background in formal logic. That's exactly what I'd expect. Someone who's practiced in a domain recognizes the pattern quickly. But that's the claim: most reasoning happens within well-practiced domains. Your success on the task doesn't counter the pattern-matching thesis, it's a clean example of it working well.
On the broader point about LLMs having a "tenuous grasp on reality," I hear that, and I don't want to flatten the differences. There probably is something meaningfully different going on with how humans stay grounded. I just think the "humans reason, LLMs pattern-match" framing undersells how much human cognition is also pattern-matching, and that being honest about that is more productive than treating it as a reductionist insult.
By mirekrusin 2026-03-118:242 reply As they say, "think about how smart the average person is, then realize half the population is below that". There are far more haikus than opuses walking this planet.
We keep benchmarking models against the best humans and the best human institutions - then when someone points out that swarms, branching, or scale could close the gap, we dismiss it as "cheating". But that framing smuggles in an assumption that intelligence only counts if it works the way ours does. Nobody calls a calculator a cheat for not understanding multiplication - it just multiplies better than you, and that's what matters.
LLMs are a different shape of intelligence. Superhuman on some axes, subpar on others. The interesting question isn't "can they replicate every aspect of human cognition" - it's whether the axes they're strong on are sufficient to produce better than human outcomes in domains that matter. Calculators settled that question for arithmetic. LLMs are settling it for an increasingly wide range of cognitive work. The fact that neither can flip a burger is irrelevant.
Humans don't have a monopoly on intelligence. We just had a monopoly on generality and that moat is shrinking fast.
By ghywertelling 2026-03-119:021 reply The "God of the gaps" theory is a theological and philosophical viewpoint where gaps in scientific knowledge are cited as evidence for the existence and direct intervention of a divine creator. It asserts that phenomena currently unexplained by science—such as the origin of life or consciousness—are caused by God.
We are doing inversion of God of gaps to "LLM of Gaps" where gaps in LLM capabilities are considered inherently negative and limiting
By qsera 2026-03-1110:47 It is not actually the gaps in capability, and instead it arises from an understanding of how it works and an honest acknowledgement of how far it could go.
By qsera 2026-03-1110:42 The question is not if these things are actually intelligent or not. The question is if these things will be useful without an endless supply of training data and continuous re-alignment using it..
And the questions "Are these things really intelligent" is just a proxy for that.
And we are interested in that question because that is necessary to justify the massive investment these things are getting now. It is quite easy to look at these things and conclude that it will continue to progress without any limit.
But that would be like looking at data compression at the time of its conception, and thinking that it is only a matter of time we can compress 100GB into 1KB..
We live in a time of scams that are obvious if you take a second look. If something that require much deeper scrutiny, then it is possible to generate a lot more larger bubble.
> and that moat is shrinking fast..
The point is that in reality it is not. It is just appearance. If you consider how these things work, then there is no justification of this conclusion.
I have said this elsewhere, but the problem of Hallucination itself along with the requirement of re-training, the smoking gun that these things are not intelligence in ways that would justify these massive investments.
By nextaccountic 2026-03-115:00 > If you added a simple additional to the problem, such as "Note that in this context, 'if' only means that...", most people would almost certainly answer it correctly.
Agreed. More broadly, classical logic isn't the only logic out there. Many logics will differ on the meaning of implication if x then y. There's multiple ways for x to imply y, and those additional meanings do show up in natural language all the time, and we actually do have logical systems to describe them, they are just lesser known.
Mapping natural language into logic often requires a context that lies outside the words that were written or spoken. We need to represent into formulas what people actually meant, rather than just what they wrote. Indeed the same sentence can be sometimes ambiguous, and a logical formula never is.
As an aside, I wanna say that material implication (that is, the "if x then y" of classical logic) deeply sucks, or rather, an implication in natural language very rarely maps cleanly into material implication. Having an implication if x then y being vacuously true when x is false is something usually associated with people that smirk on clever wordplays, rather than something people actually mean when they say "if x then y"
Your response contains a performative contradiction: you are asserting that humans are naturally logical while simultaneously committing several logical errors to defend that claim.
This comment would be a lot more useful with an enumeration of those logical errors.
By lugu 2026-03-110:18 commenter’s specific claim—that adding a note about the definition of "if" would solve the problem—is a moving the goalposts fallacy and a tautology. The comment also suffers from hasty generalization (in their experience the test isn't hard) and special pleading (double standard for LLM and humans).
When someone tells you "you can have this if you pay me", they don't mean "you can also have it if you don't pay". They are implicitly but clearly indicating you gotta pay.
It's as simple as that. In common use, "if x then y" frequently implies "if not x then not y". Pretending that it's some sort of a cognitive defect to interpret it this way is silly.
In the original studies, most people made an error that can't be explained by that misunderstanding: they failed to select the card showing 'not y'.
By gopher_space 2026-03-1117:04 From my armchair this feels relevant:
> Decoding analyses of neural activity further reveal significant above chance decoding accuracy for negated adjectives within 600 ms from adjective onset, suggesting that negation does not invert the representation of adjectives (i.e., “not bad” represented as “good”)[...]
From: Negation mitigates rather than inverts the neural representations of adjectives
At: https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...
> But then again, how often do humans actually reason outside their own “training distribution”? Most human insight happens within well-practiced domains.
Humans can produce new concepts and then symbolize them for communication purposes. The meaning of concepts is grounded in operational definitions - in a manner that anyone can understand because they are operational, and can be reproduced in theory by anyone.
For example, euclid invented the concepts of a point, angle and line to operationally represent geometry in the real world. These concepts were never "there" to begin with. They were created from scratch to "build" a world-model that helps humans navigate the real world.
Euclid went outside his "training distribution" to invent point, angle, and line. Humans have this ability to construct new concepts by interaction with the real world - bringing the "unknown" into the "known" so-to-speak. Animals have this too via evolution, but it is unclear if animals can symbolize their concepts and skills to the extent that humans can.
> Humans can produce new concepts and then symbolize them for communication purposes.
Sure, but the question is how often this actually happens versus how often people are doing something closer to recombination and pattern-matching within familiar territory. The point was about the base rate of genuine novel reasoning in everyday human cognition, and I don't think this addresses that.
> Euclid invented the concepts of a point, angle and line to operationally represent geometry in the real world. These concepts were never "there" to begin with.
This isn't really true though. Egyptian and Babylonian surveyors were working with geometric concepts long before Euclid. What Euclid did was axiomatize and systematize knowledge that was already in wide practical use. That's a real achievement, but it's closer to "sophisticated refinement within a well-practiced domain" than to reasoning from scratch outside a training distribution. If anything the example supports the parent comment.
There's also something off about saying points and lines were "never there." Humans have spatial perception. Geometric intuitions come from embodied experience of edges, boundaries, trajectories. Formalizing those intuitions is real work, but it's not the same as generating something with no prior basis.
The deeper issue is you're pointing to one of the most extraordinary intellectual achievements in human history and treating it as representative of human cognition generally. The whole point, drawing on Kahneman, is that most of what we call reasoning is fast associative pattern-matching, and that the slow deliberate stuff is rarer and more error-prone than people assume. The fact that Euclid existed doesn't tell us much about what the other billions of humans are doing cognitively on a Tuesday afternoon.
> Formalizing those intuitions is real work, but it's not the same as generating something with no prior basis.
> The fact that Euclid existed doesn't tell us much about what the other billions of humans are doing cognitively on a Tuesday afternoon.
Birds can fly - so, there is some flying intelligence built into their dna. But, are they aware of their skill to be able to create a theory of flight, and then use that to build a plane ? I am just pointing out that intuitions are not enough - the awareness of the intuitions in a manner that can symbolize and operationalize it is important.
> The whole point, drawing on Kahneman, is that most of what we call reasoning is fast associative pattern-matching, and that the slow deliberate stuff is rarer and more error-prone than people assume
David Bessis, in his wonderful book [1] argues that the cognitive actions done by you and I on a tuesday afternoon is the same that mathematicians do - just that we are unaware of it. Also, since you brought up Kahneman, Bessis proposes a System 3 wherein inaccurate intuitions is corrected by precise communication.
[1] Mathematica: A Secret World of Intuition and Curiosity
By perfmode 2026-03-1117:43 The bird analogy is actually a really good one, but I think it supports a narrower claim than you're making. You're right that the capacity to symbolize and formalize intuitions is a distinct and important thing, separate from just having the intuitions. No argument there. But my point wasn't that symbolization doesn't matter. It was about how often humans actually exercise that capacity in a strong sense versus doing something more like recombination within familiar frameworks. The bird can't theorize flight, agreed. But most humans who can in principle theorize about their intuitions also don't, most of the time. The capacity exists. The base rate of its deployment is the question.
On Bessis, I actually think his argument is more compatible with what I was saying than it might seem. If the cognitive process underlying mathematical reasoning is the same one operating on a Tuesday afternoon, that's an argument against treating Euclid-level formalization as categorically different from everyday cognition. It suggests a continuum rather than a bright line between "pattern matching" and "genuine reasoning." Which is interesting and probably right. But it also means you can't point to Euclid as evidence that humans routinely do something qualitatively beyond what LLMs do. If Bessis is right, then the extraordinary cases and the mundane cases share the same underlying machinery, and the question becomes quantitative (how far along the continuum, how often, under what conditions) rather than categorical.
I'll check out the book though, it sounds like it's making a more careful version of the point than usually gets made in these threads.
By nextaccountic 2026-03-114:341 reply > Kahneman’s whole framework points the same direction. Most of what people call “reasoning” is fast, associative, pattern-based. The slow, deliberate, step-by-step stuff is effortful and error-prone, and people avoid it when they can. And even when they do engage it, they’re often confabulating a logical-sounding justification for a conclusion they already reached by other means.
Some references on that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow
https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/philosophy/system...
System 1 really looks like a LLM (indeed completing a phrase is an example of what it can do, like, "you either die a hero, or you live enough to become the _"). It's largely unconscious and runs all the time, pattern matching on random stuff
System 2 is something else and looks like a supervisor system, a higher level stuff that can be consciously directed through your own will
But the two systems run at the same time and reinforce each other
By drdaeman 2026-03-1118:26 In my naive understanding, neither requires any will or consciousness.
S1 is “bare” language production, picking words or concepts to say or think by a fancy pattern prediction. There’s no reasoning at this level, just blabbering. However, language by itself weeds out too obvious nonsense purely statistically (some concepts are rarely in the same room), but we may call that “mindlessly” - that’s why even early LLMs produced semi-meaningful texts.
S2 is a set of patterns inside the language (“logic”), that biases S1 to produce reasoning-like phrases. Doesn’t require any consciousness or will, just concepts pushing S1 towards a special structure, simply backing one keeps them “in mind” and throws in the mix.
I suspect S2 has a spectrum of rigorousness, because one can just throw in some rules (like “if X then Y, not Y therefore not X”) or may do fancier stuff (imposing a larger structure to it all, like formulating and testing a null hypothesis). Either way it all falls down onto S1 for a ultimate decision-making, a sense of what sounds right (allowing us our favorite logical flaws), thus the fancier the rules (patterns of “thought”) the more likely reasoning will be sounder.
S2 doesn’t just rely but is a part of S1-as-language, though, because it’s a phenomena born out (and inside) the language.
Whether it’s willfully “consciously” engaged or if it works just because S1 predicts logical thinking concept as appropriate for certain lines of thinking and starts to involve probably doesn’t even matter - it mainly depends on whatever definition of “will” we would like to pick (there are many).
LLMs and humans can hypothetically do both just fine, but when it comes to checking, humans currently excel because (I suspect) they have a “wider” language in S1, that doesn’t only include word-concepts but also sensory concepts (like visuospatial thinking). Thus, as I get it, the world models idea.
> The story that humans have access to some pure deductive engine and LLMs are just faking it with statistics might be flattering to humans more than it’s accurate.
Your point rings true with most human reasoning most of the time. Still, at least some humans do have the capability to run that deductive engine, and it seems to be a key part (though not the only part) of scientific and mathematical reasoning. Even informal experimentation and iteration rest on deductive feedback loops.
The fact that humans can learn to do X, sometimes well, often badly, and while many don’t, strongly supports the conjecture that X is not how they naturally do things.
I can perform symbolic calculations too. But most people have limited versions of this skill, and many people who don’t learn to think symbolically have full lives.
I think it is fair to say humans don’t naturally think in formal or symbolic reasoning terms.
People pattern match,
Another clue is humans have to practice things, become familiar with them to reason even somewhat reliable about them. Even if they already learned some formal reasoning.
—-
Higher level reasoning is always implemented as specific forms of lower order reasoning.
There is confusion about substrate processing vs. what higher order processes can be created with that substrate.
We can “just” be doing pattern matching from an implementation view, and yet go far “beyond” pattern matching with specific compositions of pattern matching, from a capability view.
How else could neurons think? We are “only” neurons. Yet we far surpass the kinds of capabilities neurons have.
By jonahx 2026-03-1115:27 I don't disagree with any of that. My comment was only in relation to the question of human-specific capability that current LLMs may not be able to duplicate. I was not making the value judgments you seem to have read.
By mikkupikku 2026-03-1113:391 reply When people do math or rigorous deductive reasoning, are we sure they aren't just pattern matching with a set of carefully chosen interacting patterns that have been refined by ancient philosophers as being useful patterns that produce consistent results when applied in correctly patterned ways?
By jonahx 2026-03-1116:28 I've often wondered this. I suspect not, though I don't know. You're right that the answer matters to understanding LLM limitations relative to humans, though.
By ChildOfChaos 2026-03-1114:03 I remember reading about this in a book, 'The enigma of reason', basically it was saying that reasoning was exactly that, we decided and then we came up with a reason for what we had decided and usually not the other way around.
This is because, the 'reasoning' part of our brain came from evolution when we started to communicate with others, we needed to explain our behaviour.
Which is fascinating if you think of the implications of that. In the most part we think we are being logical, but in reality we are pattern matching/impulsive and using our reasoning/logic to come up for excuses for why we have chosen what we had already decided.
It explains a lot about the world and why it's so hard to reason with someone, we are assuming the decision came from reason in the first place, which when you look at such peoples choices, makes sense as it's clear it didn't.
By rhubarbtree 2026-03-117:511 reply Brilliant insight. The success of LLM reasoning, ie “telling yourself a story”, has greatly increased my belief that humans are actually much less impressive than they seem. I do think it’s mostly pattern matching and a bunch of interacting streams analogous to LLM tokens. Obviously the implementations are different, because nature has to be robust and learn online, but I do not think we are as different from these machines as most people assume. There’s a reason Hofstadter et al. reacted as they did even to the earlier models.
This is why I also think humans being logical inference machines is mostly not true. We are seemingly capable of it, but there must be some cost that keeps it from being commonly used.
While humans did seemingly evolve socially very fast, with the tools we seem to have had for a few hundred thousand years it could have been far faster if there were not some other limitations that are being applied.
By rhubarbtree 2026-03-1210:50 Agreed. This also explains why maths is so difficult for humans. It doesn't come "naturally" to use, we have to force ourselves to use it and it "makes our head hurt".
> Even with continuous backpropagation and "learning"
That's what I said. Backpropagation cannot be enough; that's not how neurons work in the slightest. When you put biological neurons in a Pong environment they learn to play not through some kind of loss or reward function; they self-organize to avoid unpredictable stimulation. As far as I know, no architecture learns in such an unsupervised way.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662732...
Forgive me for being ignorant - but 'loss' in supervised learning ML context encode the difference between how unlikely (high loss) or likely (low loss) was the network in predicting the output based on the input.
This sounds very similar to me as to what neurons do (avoid unpredictable stimulation)
By andy12_ 2026-03-1014:37 So, I have been thinking about this for a little while. Image a model f that takes a world x and makes a prediciton y. At a high-level, a traditional supervised model is trained like this
f(x)=y' => loss(y',y) => how good was my prediction? Train f through backprop with that error.
While a model trained with reinforcement learning is more similar to this. Where m(y) is the resulting world state of taking an action y the model predicted.
f(x)=y' => m(y')=z => reward(z) => how good was the state I was in based on my actions? Train f with an algorithm like REINFORCE with the reward, as the world m is a non-differentiable black-box.
While a group of neurons is more like predicting what is the resulting word state of taking my action, g(x,y), and trying to learn by both tuning g and the action taken f(x).
f(x)=y' => m(y')=z => g(x,y)=z' => loss(z,z') => how predictable was the results of my actions? Train g normally with backprop, and train f with an algorithm like REINFORCE with negative surprise as a reward.
After talking with GPT5.2 for a little while, it seems like Curiosity-driven Exploration by Self-supervised Prediction[1] might be an architecture similar to the one I described for neurons? But with the twist that f is rewarded by making the prediction error bigger (not smaller!) as a proxy of "curiosity".
By latentsea 2026-03-113:18 So can't you just use how real neurons learn as training data to to learn how to learn the same way?
I think people MOSTLY foresee and anticipate events in OUR training data, which mostly comprises information collected by our senses.
Our training data is a lot more diverse than an LLMs. We also leverage our senses as a carrier for communicating abstract ideas using audio and visual channels that may or may not be grounded in reality. We have TV shows, video games, programming languages and all sorts of rich and interesting things we can engage with that do not reflect our fundamental reality.
Like LLMs, we can hallucinate while we sleep or we can delude ourselves with untethered ideas, but UNLIKE LLMs, we can steer our own learning corpus. We can train ourselves with our own untethered “hallucinations” or we can render them in art and share them with others so they can include it in their training corpus.
Our hallucinations are often just erroneous models of the world. When we render it into something that has aesthetic appeal, we might call it art.
If the hallucination helps us understand some aspect of something, we call it a conjecture or hypothesis.
We live in a rich world filled with rich training data. We don’t magically anticipate events not in our training data, but we’re also not void of creativity (“hallucinations”) either.
Most of us are stochastic parrots most of the time. We’ve only gotten this far because there are so many of us and we’ve been on this earth for many generations.
Most of us are dazzled and instinctively driven to mimic the ideas that a small minority of people “hallucinate”.
There is no shame in mimicking or being a stochastic parrot. These are critical features that helped our ancestors survive.
By robwwilliams 2026-03-1022:32 > We can steer our own learning corpus
This is critical. We have some degree of attentional autonomy. And we have a complex tapestry of algorithms running in thalamocortical circuits that generate “Nows”. Truncation commands produce sequences of acts (token-like products).
By conartist6 2026-03-119:342 reply Models don't care. They aren't alive. This is the source of the chasm between here and AGI. You have to fear death to reason about the world and how to behave in it.
I guess I just always thought it was obvious that you can't do better than nature. You can do different things, sure, but if a society of unique individuals wasn't the most effective way of making progress, nature itself would not have chosen it.
So in a way I think Yan is smart because he got money, but in a way I think he's a fucking idiot if he can't see just how very, very very far we are from competing with organic intelligence.
By j4k0o 2026-03-1114:01 "You have to fear death to reason about the world and how to behave in it."
You're onto something there.
If everyone knew they were to die tomorrow, all of a sudden they'd choose to act differently. There is no logical thought process that determines that - it's something else. Something we can't concretely point toward as an object.
By conartist6 2026-03-119:40 Not only that but people like this aren't actually interested in understanding the physical world. Because we don't understand it yet. If you care about understanding the world I think you become someone more like Jane Goodall than Yan LeCun
By jstummbillig 2026-03-1012:36 > They will not foresee/anticipate events, that are unlikely or non-existent in their training data, but are bound to happen due to real world circumstances. They are not intelligent in that way.
Can you be a bit more specific at all bounds? Maybe via an example?
By wiz21c 2026-03-1011:43 I'm sure that if a car appeared from nowhere in the middle of your living room, you would not be prepared at all.
So my question is: when is there enough training data that you can handle 99.99% of the world ?
The main difference is humans are learning all the time and models learn batch wise and forget whatever happened in a previous session unless someone makes it part of the training data so there is a massive lag.
Whoever cracks the continuous customized (per user, for instance) learning problem without just extending the context window is going to be making a big splash. And I don't mean cheats and shortcuts, I mean actually tuning the model based on received feedback.
By aurareturn 2026-03-114:091 reply Why not just provide more compute for say, 1 billion token context for each user to mimic continuous learning. Then retrain the model in the background to include learnings.
The user wouldn’t know if the continuous learning came from the context or the model retrained. It wouldn’t matter.
Continuous learning seems to be a compute and engineering problem.
By jacquesm 2026-03-117:53 Because that re-training is not strong enough to hold, or so it seems. The same dumb factual errors keep coming up on different generations of the same models. I've yet to see proof that something 'stuck' from model to model. They get better in a general sense but not in the specific sense that what was corrected stays put, not from session to session and not from one generation to the next.
My solution is to have this massive 'boot up' prompt but it becomes extremely tedious to maintain.
By eloisant 2026-03-1113:14 They can write to files then refer to them in a next session.
A bit like the main character played by Guy Pierce in the movie Memento (which doesn't work great for him to be honest).
> Models today are static, and human brains don't learn or adapt themselves with anything close to backpropagation.
While I suspect latter is a real problem (because all mammal brains* are much more example-efficient than all ML), the former is more about productisation than a fundamental thing: the models can be continuously updated already, but that makes it hard to deal with regressions. You kinda want an artefact with a version stamp that doesn't change itself before you release the update, especially as this isn't like normal software where specific features can be toggled on or off in isolation of everything else.
* I think. Also, I'm saying "mammal" because of an absence of evidence (to my *totally amateur* skill level) not evidence of absence.
By program_whiz 2026-03-1021:57 they can be continuously updated, assuming you re-run representative samples of the training set through them continuously. Unlike a mammal brain which preserves the function of neurons unless they activate in a situation which causes a training signal, deep nets have catastrophic forgetting because signals get scattered everywhere. If you had a model continuously learning about you in your pocket, without tons of cycles spent "remembering" old examples. In fact, this is a major stumbling block in standard training, sampling is a huge problem. If you just iterate through the training corpus, you'll have forgotten most of the english stuff by the time you finish with chinese or spanish. You have to constantly mix and balance training info due to this limitation.
The fundamental difference is that physical neurons have a discrete on/off activation, while digital "neurons" in a network are merely continuous differentiable operations. They also don't have a notion of "spike timining dependency" to avoid overwriting activations that weren't related to an outcome. There are things like reward-decay over time, but this applies to the signal at a very coarse level, updates are still scattered to almost the entire system with every training example.
By A_D_E_P_T 2026-03-1011:23 You could have continual learning on text and still be stuck in the same "remixing baseline human communications" trap. It's a nasty one, very hard to avoid, possibly even structurally unavoidable.
As for the "just put a vision LLM in a robot body" suggestion: People are trying this (e.g. Physical Intelligence) and it looks like it's extraordinarily hard! The results so far suggest that bolting perception and embodiment onto a language-model core doesn't produce any kind of causal understanding. The architecture behind the integration of sensory streams, persistent object representations, and modeling time and causality is critically important... and that's where world models come in.
The fact that models aren't continually updating seems more like a feature. I want to know the model is exactly the same as it was the last time I used it. Any new information it needs can be stored in its context window or stored in a file to read the next it needs to access it.
> The fact that models aren't continually updating seems more like a feature.
I think this is true to some extent: we like our tools to be predictable. But we’ve already made one jump by going from deterministic programs to stochastic models. I am sure the moment a self-evolutive AI shows up that clears the "useful enough" threshold we’ll make that jump as well.
Stochastic and unpredictability aren't exactly the same. I would claim current LLMs are generally predictable even if it is not as predictable as a deterministic program.
By kergonath 2026-03-119:17 No, but my point is that to some extent we value determinism. By making the jump to stochastic models we already move away from the status quo; further jumps are entirely possible. Depending on use case we can accept more uncertainty if it comes with benefits.
I also don’t think there is a reason to believe that self-learning models must be unpredictable.
By lxgr 2026-03-1021:16 Persistent memory through text in the context window is a hack/workaround.
And generally:
> I want to know the model is exactly the same as it was the last time I used it.
What exactly does that gain you, when the overall behavior is still stochastic?
But still, if it's important to you, you can get the same behavior by taking a model snapshot once we crack continuous learning.
By edgyquant 2026-03-110:50 It’s a feature of a good tool, but a sentient intelligence is more than just a tool
Unless you use your oen local models then you don't even know when OpenAI or Anthropic tweaked the model less or more. One week it's a version x, next week it's a version y. Just like your operating system is continuously evolving with smaller patches of specific apps to whole new kernel version and new OS release.
By 10xDev 2026-03-1015:50 There is still a huge gap between a model continuously updating itself and weekly patches by a specialist team. The former would make things unpredictable.
By nurettin 2026-03-1023:22 Who knows? Perhaps attention really is all you need. Maybe our context window is really large. Or our compression is really effective. Perhaps adding external factors might be able to indirectly teach the models to act more in line with social expectations such as being embarrassed to repeat the same mistake, unlocking the final piece of the puzzle. We are still stumbling in the dark for answers.
By the_black_hand 2026-03-116:47 yes those are bottlenecks that world models don't solve. but the promise of world models is, unlike LLMs, they might be able to learn things about the world that humans haven't written. For example, we still don't fully know how insects fly. A world model could be trained on thousands of videos of insects and make a novel observation about insect trajectories. The premise is that despite being here for millenia, humans have only observed a tiny fraction of the world.
So I do buy his idea. But I disagree that you need world models to get to human level capabilities. IMO there's no fundamental reason why models can't develop human understanding based on the known human observations.
By mxkopy 2026-03-112:15 The reason LLMs fail today is because there’s no meaning inherent to the tokens they produce other than the one captured by cooccurrence within text. Efforts like these are necessary because so much of “general intelligence” is convention defined by embodied human experience, for example arrows implying directionality and even directionality itself.
By stanfordkid 2026-03-111:54 It's pretty simple... the word circle and what you can correlate to it via english language description has somewhat less to do with reality than a physical 3D model of a circle and what it would do in an environment. You can't just add more linguistic description via training data to change that. It doesn't really matter that you can keep back propagating because what you are back propagating over is fundamentally and qualitatively less rich.
I don't understand why online learning is that necessary. If you took Einstein at 40 and surgically removed his hippocampus so he can't learn anything he didn't already know (meaning no online learning), that's still a very useful AGI. A hippocampus is a nice upgrade to that, but not super obviously on the critical path.
By staticman2 2026-03-1013:081 reply > If you took Einstein at 40 and surgically removed his hippocampus so he can't learn anything he didn't already know (meaning no online learning), that's still a very useful AGI.
I like how people are accepting this dubious assertion that Einstein would be "useful" if you surgically removed his hippocampus and engaging with this.
It also calls this Einstein an AGI rather than a disabled human???
By squeegmeister 2026-03-1020:55 Hypotheticals fear him
By daxfohl 2026-03-1015:44 He basically said that himself:
"Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking".
-- Albert Einstein
By zelphirkalt 2026-03-1011:30 I guess the sheer amount and also variety of information you would need to pre-encode to get an Einstein at 40 is huge. Every day stream of high resolution video feed and actions and consequences and thoughts and ideas he has had until the age of 40 of every single moment. That includes social interactions, like a conversation and mimic of the other person in combination with what was said and background knowledge about the other person. Even a single conversation's data is a huge amount of data.
But one might say that the brain is not lossless ... True, good point. But in what way is it lossy? Can that be simulated well enough to learn an Einstein? What gives events significance is very subjective.
By a-french-anon 2026-03-1013:57 Kinda a moot point in my eyes because I very much doubt you can arrive at the same result without the same learning process.
By andy12_ 2026-03-1011:28 That's true. Though could that hippocampus-less Einstein be able to keep making novel complex discoveries from that point forward? Seems difficult. He would rapidly reach the limits of his short term memory (the same way current models rapidly reach the limits of their context windows).
By jeltz 2026-03-1013:08 It could possibly be useful but I don't see why it would be AGI.
By andsoitis 2026-03-1011:32 Where does that training data come from?
I never understood why we believe humans don't backprop. Isn't it that during the day we fill up our context (short term memory) and sleep is actually where we use that to backprop? Heck, everyone knows what "sleep on it" means.
By cedilla 2026-03-1112:11 Brains are not doing linear algebra, and they don't follow a concise algorithm.
What LLM do is even farther away from what neural nets do, and even there - artificial neurons are inspired by but not reimplementing biological neurons.
You can understand human thought in terms of LLMs, but that is just a simile, like understanding physical reality in terms of computers or clockworks.
By carlmr 2026-03-1112:49 Especially they will require even more compute to get anything close to usable output. Human brains are super efficient at learning and producing output. We will need exponentially more compute for real time learning from video + audio + haptic data.
By eloisant 2026-03-1110:53 LeCun is a researcher.
From his point of view, there are not much research left on LLM. Sure we can still improve them a bit with engineering around, but he's more interested in basic research.
By slashdave 2026-03-115:46 If your model is poor, no amount of learning can fix it. If you don't think your model architecture is limited, you aren't looking hard enough.
By edgyquant 2026-03-110:49 Iirc LeCunn talks about a self organizing hierarchy of real world objects and imo this is exactly how the human brain actually learns
I don’t understand your view. Reality is that we need some way to encode the rules of the world in a more definitive way. If we want models to be able to make assertive claims about important information and be correct, it’s very fair to theorize they might need a more deterministic approach than just training them more. But it’s just a theory that this will actually solve the problem.
Ultimately, we still have a lot to learn and a lot of experiments to do. It’s frankly unscientific to suggest any approaches are off the table, unless the data & research truly proves that. Why shouldn’t we take this awesome LLM technology and bring in more techniques to make it better?
A really, really basic example is chess. Current top AI models still don’t know how to play it (https://www.software7.com/blog/ai_chess_vs_1983_atari/) The models are surely trained on source material that include chess rules, and even high level chess games. But the models are not learning how to play chess correctly. They don’t have a model to understand how chess actually works — they only have a non-deterministic prediction based on what they’ve seen, even after being trained on more data than any chess novice has ever seen about the topic. And this is probably one of the easiest things for AI to stimulate. Very clear/brief rules, small problem space, no hidden information, but it can’t handle the massive decision space because its prediction isn’t based on the actual rules, but just “things that look similar”
(And yeah, I’m sure someone could build a specific LLM or agent system that can handle chess, but the point is that the powerful general purpose models can’t do it out of the box after training.)
Maybe more training & self-learning can solve this, but it’s clearly still unsolved. So we should definitely be experimenting with more techniques.
By andy12_ 2026-03-118:33 > Reality is that we need some way to encode the rules of the world in a more definitive way
I mean, sure. But do world models the way LeCun proposes them solves this? I don't think so. JEPAs are just an unsupervised machine learning model at the end of the day; they might end up being better that just autoregressive pretraining on text+images+video, but they are not magic. For example, if you train a JEPA model on data of orbital mechanics, will it learn actually sensible algorithms to predict the planets' motions or will it just learn a mix of heuristic?
By charcircuit 2026-03-1016:181 reply Agents have the ability of continual learning.
Putting stuff you have learned into a markdown file is a very "shallow" version of continual learning. It can remember facts, yes, but I doubt a model can master new out-of-distribution tasks this way. If anything, I think that Google's Titans[1] and Hope[2] architectures are more aligned with true continual learning (without being actual continual learning still, which is why they call it "test-time memorization").
By charcircuit 2026-03-111:091 reply I have had it master tasks by doing this. The first time it tries to solve an issue it may take a long time, but it documents its findings and how it was able to do it and then it applies that knowledge the next time the task comes up.
By andy12_ 2026-03-1114:23 There is some things that just don't transfer really well without specific training. I tried to create diagrams in Typst with Cetz (a Processing and Tikz inspired graphing library), and even with documentation, GPT 5.2-thinking can't really do complex nice diagrams like it can in Tikz. It can do simple things that are similar to the shown examples, but nothing really interesting. Typst and specially Cetz is too new for any current model to really "get it", so they can't use it. I need to wait to the next batch of frontier models so that they learn Typst and Cetz examples during pre-training.
By patapong 2026-03-1115:15 It really reminds me of the movie Memento - it has to constantly put notes down to remember who it is and what it should do after waking up without memory every n minutes.
The sum of human knowledge is more than enough to come up with innovative ideas and not every field is working directly with the physical world. Still I would say there's enough information in the written history to create virtual simulation of 3d world with all ohysical laws applying (to a certain degree because computation is limited).
What current LLMs lack is inner motivation to create something on their own without being prompted. To think in their free time (whatever that means for batch, on demand processing), to reflect and learn, eventually to self modify.
I have a simple brain, limited knowledge, limited attention span, limited context memory. Yet I create stuff based what I see, read online. Nothing special, sometimes more based on someone else's project, sometimes on my own ideas which I have no doubt aren't that unique among 8 billions of other people. Yet consulting with AI provides me with more ideas applicable to my current vision of what I want to achieve. Sure it's mostly based on generally known (not always known to me) good practices. But my thoughts are the same way, only more limited by what I have slowly learned so far in my life.
By jandrewrogers 2026-03-1017:171 reply > virtual simulation of 3d world
Virtual simulations are not substitutable for the physical world. They are fundamentally different theory problems that have almost no overlap in applicability. You could in principle create a simulation with the same mathematical properties as the physical world but no one has ever done that. I'm not sure if we even know how.
Physical world dynamics are metastable and non-linear at every resolution. The models we do build are created from sparse irregular samples with large error rates; you often have to do complex inference to know if a piece of data even represents something real. All of this largely breaks the assumptions of our tidy sampling theorems in mathematics. The problem of physical world inference has been studied for a couple decades in the defense and mapping industries; we already have a pretty good understanding of why LLM-style AI is uniquely bad at inference in this domain, and it mostly comes down to the architectural inability to represent it.
Grounded estimates of the minimum quantity of training data required to build a reliable model of physical world dynamics, given the above properties, is many exabytes. This data exists, so that is not a problem. The models will be orders of magnitude larger than current LLMs. Even if you solve the computer science and theory problems around representation so that learning and inference is efficient, few people are prepared for the scale of it.
(source: many years doing frontier R&D on these problems)
By MITSardine 2026-03-1020:361 reply > You could in principle create a simulation with the same mathematical properties as the physical world but no one has ever done that. I'm not sure if we even know how.
What do you mean by that? Simulating physics is a rich field, which incidentally was one of the main drivers of parallel/super computing before AI came along.
By jandrewrogers 2026-03-1022:462 reply The mapping of the physical world onto a computer representation introduces idiosyncratic measurement issues for every data point. The idiosyncratic bias, errors, and non-repeatability changes dynamically at every point in space and time, so it can be modeled neither globally nor statically. Some idiosyncratic bias exhibits coupling across space and time.
Reconstructing ground truth from these measurements, which is what you really want to train on, is a difficult open inference problem. The idiosyncratic effects induce large changes in the relationships learnable from the data model. Many measurements map to things that aren't real. How badly that non-reality can break your inference is context dependent. Because the samples are sparse and irregular, you have to constantly model the noise floor to make sure there is actually some signal in the synthesized "ground truth".
In simulated physics, there are no idiosyncratic measurement issues. Every data point is deterministic, repeatable, and well-behaved. There is also much less algorithmic information, so learning is simpler. It is a trivial problem by comparison. Using simulations to train physical world models is skipping over all the hard parts.
I've worked in HPC, including physics models. Taking a standard physics simulation and introducing representative idiosyncratic measurement seems difficult. I don't think we've ever built a physics simulation with remotely the quantity and complexity of fine structure this would require.
By infinite8s 2026-03-1023:50 Is this like some scale-independent version of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle?
By MITSardine 2026-03-118:10 I'm probably missing most of your point, but wouldn't the fact that we have inverse problems being applied in real-world situations somewhat contradict your qualms? In those cases too, we have to deal with noisy real-world information.
I'll admit I'm not very familiar with that type of work - I'm in the forward solve business - but if assumptions are made on the sensor noise distribution, couldn't those be inferred by more generic models? I realize I'm talking about adding a loop on top of an inverse problem loop, which is two steps away (just stuffing a forward solve in a loop is already not very common due to cost and engineering difficulty).
Or better yet, one could probably "primal-adjoint" this and just solve at once for physical parameters and noise model, too. They're but two differentiable things in the way of a loss function.
By daxfohl 2026-03-1015:38 I guess you need two things to make that happen. First, more specialization among models and an ability to evolve, else you get all instances thinking roughly the same thing, or deer in the headlights where they don't know what of the millions of options they should think about. Second, fewer guardrails; there's only so much you can do by pure thought.
The problem is, idk if we're ready to have millions of distinct, evolving, self-executing models running wild without guardrails. It seems like a contradiction: you can't achieve true cognition from a machine while artificially restricting its boundaries, and you can't lift the boundaries without impacting safety.
> LLMs are fundamentally capped because they only learn from static text -- human communications about the world -- rather than from the world itself, which is why they can remix existing ideas but find it all but impossible to produce genuinely novel discoveries or inventions.
This seems wrong to me on a few levels.
First, there is no way to "experience the world directly," all experience is indirect, and language is a very good way of describing the world. If language was a bad choice or limited in some fundamental way, LLMs wouldn't work as well as they do.
Second, novel ideas are often existing ideas remixed. It's hard/impossible to point to any single idea that sprung from nowhere.
Third, you can provide an LLM with real-world information and suddenly it's "interacting with the world". If I tell an LLM about the US war on Iran, I am in a very real sense plugging it into the real world, something that isn't part of its training data.
Finally, modern LLMs are multi-modal, meaning they have the ability to handle images/video. My understanding is that they use some kind of adapter to turn non-text data into data that the LLM can make sense of.
Re 1: You experience the world in real time (or close enough) via your senses, which combine to form a spatiotemporal sense: A sense of being a bounded entity in space and time. The LLM has none of that. They experience the world via stale old text and text derivatives.
Re 2: There's something tremendous in the fact, staring us right in the face, that LLMs are unable to meaningfully contribute to academic/medical research. I'm not saying that they need to perform on the level of a one-in-a-million Maxwell, DaVinci, or whatever. But as Dwarkesh asked one year ago: "What do you make of the fact that these things have basically the entire corpus of human knowledge memorized and they haven't been able to make a single new connection that has led to a discovery?"
Re 3: Sure, you can hold it by the hand and spoonfeed it. You can also create for it a mirror reality which doesn't exist, which is pure fiction. Given how limited these systems are, I don't suppose it makes much of a difference. There's no way for it to tell. The "human in the loop" is its interaction with the world. And a pale, meager interaction it is.
Re 4: Static, old images/video that they were trained on some months ago. That, too, is no way of interacting with the world.
By crazygringo 2026-03-1115:38 > What do you make of the fact that these things have basically the entire corpus of human knowledge memorized and they haven't been able to make a single new connection that has led to a discovery?
If that's what you're experiencing, then you're not asking them the right questions.
If you're at the edge of your field so you're able to judge whether something is novel or not, and you have a direction you'd like the LLM to explore, just ask it. Prompt it to come up with some ideas of how to solve X, or categorize Y, or analyze Z. Encourage it to take ideas from, or find parallels in, closely related or distantly related fields.
You will probably quickly find yourself with a ton of new ideas, of varying quality, in the same way as if you were brainstorming with a colleague.
But they don't work "solo". They need to you guide the conversation. But when you do, they're chock-full of new ideas and connections and discoveries. But again -- just like with people, the quality varies. If you're looking for a good startup idea, you need to sift through hundreds. Similarly if you're looking for an idea of a paper you could publish, there are a lot of hypotheses to sift through. And you're supplying your own expert "good taste" to try to determine what's worth pursuing and developing further, etc.
LLMs don't just magically come up with new proven discoveries unprompted. But they turn out to be fantastic research and idea-generation partners. They excel at combining existing related-but-distant facts and models and interpretations in novel ways.
By famouswaffles 2026-03-1121:59 >Re 2: There's something tremendous in the fact, staring us right in the face, that LLMs are unable to meaningfully contribute to academic/medical research. I'm not saying that they need to perform on the level of a one-in-a-million Maxwell, DaVinci, or whatever. But as Dwarkesh asked one year ago: "What do you make of the fact that these things have basically the entire corpus of human knowledge memorized and they haven't been able to make a single new connection that has led to a discovery?"
This isn't really true so what ? If you really cared and were actually paying attention, you'd see that frontier LLMs have begun to contribute to academic research. There are other impressive results for math as well.
By slibhb 2026-03-1114:59 > Re 1: You experience the world in real time (or close enough) via your senses, which combine to form a spatiotemporal sense: A sense of being a bounded entity in space and time. The LLM has none of that. They experience the world via stale old text and text derivatives.
It's not clear to me that this is a fundamental limitation. If you provide LLMs with a news feed, it's closer to real-time. You can incrementally get closer than that in very obvious ways.
> Re 2: There's something tremendous in the fact, staring us right in the face, that LLMs are unable to meaningfully contribute to academic/medical research. I'm not saying that they need to perform on the level of a one-in-a-million Maxwell, DaVinci, or whatever. But as Dwarkesh asked one year ago: "What do you make of the fact that these things have basically the entire corpus of human knowledge memorized and they haven't been able to make a single new connection that has led to a discovery?"
LLMs have been around for a very short time. It wouldn't surprise me if researchers have used them to make discoveries. If they haven't, they will soon. Then there's a question about attribution...if you're a researcher and you use an LLM to discover something, do you give it credit? Or is it just a tool? There's a long, long history of researchers being less than honest how they made some discovery.
> Re 3: Sure, you can hold it by the hand and spoonfeed it. You can also create for it a mirror reality which doesn't exist, which is pure fiction. Given how limited these systems are, I don't suppose it makes much of a difference. There's no way for it to tell. The "human in the loop" is its interaction with the world. And a pale, meager interaction it is.
Our perception of reality is meager too. You can easily imagine how an LLM could be "plugged in" to reality. Again nothing fundamental here.
> Re 4: Static, old images/video that they were trained on some months ago. That, too, is no way of interacting with the world.
No, you can send an LLM a video/image and it can "understand it". It's not perfect but, like I said, the technology is already here to project video data into something the LLMs can interact with.
I'm gonna be a cynic and say this is money following money and Yann LeCun is an excellent salesman.
I 100% guarantee that he will not be holding the bag when this fails. Society will be protecting him.
On that proviso I have zero respect for this guy.
By thinkling 2026-03-111:16 Um, why would anyone be "holding the bag" and who needs protecting by society? He's not taking out a loan, he's getting capital investment in a startup. People are gambling that he will do well and make money for them. If they gamble wrong, that's on them. Society won't be doing anything either way because investors in startups that fail don't get anything.
By roromainmain 2026-03-1023:09 Agree. LLMs operate in the domain of language and symbols, but the universe contains much more than that. Humans also learn a great deal from direct phenomenological experience of the world, even without putting those experiences into words. I remember a talk by Yann LeCun where he pointed out that in just the first couple of years of life, a human baby is exposed to orders of magnitude more sensory data (vision, sound, etc.) than what current LLMs are typically trained on. This seems like a major limitation of purely language-based models.
By Unearned5161 2026-03-1011:414 reply I have a pet peeve with the concept of "a genuinely novel discovery or invention", what do you imagine this to be? Can you point me towards a discovery or invention that was "genuinely novel", ever?
I don't think it makes sense conceptually unless you're literally referring to discovering new physical things like elements or something.
Humans are remixers of ideas. That's all we do all the time. Our thoughts and actions are dictated by our environment and memories; everything must necessarily be built up from pre-existing parts.
By davidfarrell 2026-03-1011:55 W Brian Arthur's book "The Nature of Technology" provides a framework for classifying new technology as elemental vs innovative that I find helpful. For example the Huntley-Mcllroy diff operates on the phenomenon that ordered correspondence survives editing. That was an invention (discovery of a natural phenomenon and a means to harness it). Myers diff improves the performance by exploiting the fact that text changes are sparse. That's innovation. A python app using libdiff, that's engineering. And then you might say in terms of "descendants": invention > innovation > engineering. But it's just a perspective.
By 0x3f 2026-03-1012:05 Novel things can be incremental. I don't think LLMs can do that either, at least I've never seen one do it.
Suno is transformer-based; in a way it's a heavily modified LLM.
You can't get Suno to do anything that's not in its training data. It is physically incapable of inventing a new musical genre. No matter how detailed the instructions you give it, and even if you cheat and provide it with actual MP3 examples of what you want it to create, it is impossible.
The same goes for LLMs and invention generally, which is why they've made no important scientific discoveries.
You can learn a lot by playing with Suno.
By hodgehog11 2026-03-1022:20 I don't see how this is an architectural problem though. The problem is that music datasets are highly multimodal, and the training process is relying almost entirely on this dataset instead of incorporating basic musical knowledge to allow it to explore a bit further. That's what happens when computer scientists aim to "upset" a field without consulting with experts in said field.
By chpatrick 2026-03-1019:15
Genuinely novel discovery or invention?
Einstein’s theory of relativity springs to mind, which is deeply counter-intuitive and relies on the interaction of forces unknowable to our basic Newtonian senses.
There’s an argument that it’s all turtles (someone told him about universes, he read about gravity, etc), but there are novel maths and novel types of math that arise around and for such theories which would indicate an objective positive expansion of understanding and concept volume.
By chpatrick 2026-03-1019:16 Einstein was heavily inspired by Mach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach%27s_principle
By jungturk 2026-03-1017:16 Nah - Poincare & Lorentz did quite a bit of groundwork on relativity and its implications before Einstein put it all together.
> LLMs are fundamentally capped because they only learn from static text -- human communications about the world -- rather than from the world itself, which is why they can remix existing ideas but find it all but impossible to produce genuinely novel discoveries or inventions.
No hate, but this is just your opinion.
The definition of "text" here is extremely broad – an SVG is text, but it's also an image format. It's not incomprehensible to imagine how an AI model trained on lots of SVG "text" might build internal models to help it "visualise" SVGs in the same way you might visualise objects in your mind when you read a description of them.
The human brain only has electrical signals for IO, yet we can learn and reason about the world just fine. I don't see why the same wouldn't be possible with textual IO.
By daxfohl 2026-03-1023:03 Yeah I don't even think you'd need to train it. You could probably just explain how SVG works (or just tell it to emit coordinates of lines it wants to draw), and tell it to draw a horse, and I have to imagine it would be able to do so, even if it had never been trained on images, svg, or even cartesian coordinates. I think there's enough world model in there that you could simply explain cartesian coordinates in the context, it'd figure out how those map to its understanding of a horse's composition, and output something roughly correct. It'd be an interesting experiment anyway.
But yeah, I can't imagine that LLMs don't already have a world model in there. They have to. The internet's corpus of text may not contain enough detail to allow a LLM to differentiate between similar-looking celebrities, but it's plenty of information to allow it to create a world model of how we perceive the world. And it's a vastly more information-dense means of doing so.
By mirekrusin 2026-03-118:06 Thank you for not saying "language", but "text".
It's true, but it's also true that text is very expressive.
Programming languages (huge, formalized expressiveness), math and other formal notation, SQL, HTML, SVG, JSON/YAML, CSV, domain specific encoding ie. for DNA/protein sequences, for music, verilog/VHDL for hardware, DOT/Graphviz/Mermaid, OBJ for 3D, Terraform/Nix, Dockerfiles, git diffs/patches, URLs etc etc.
The scope is very wide and covers enough to be called generic especially if you include multi modalities that are already being blended in (images, videos, sound).
I'm cheering for Yann, hope he's right and I really like his approach to openness (hope he'll carry it over to his new company).
At the same time current architectures do exist now and do work, by far exceeding his or anybody's else expectations and continue doing so. It may also be true they're here to stay for long on text and other supported modalities as cheaper to train.
By uoaei 2026-03-112:17 > There are a lot more degrees of freedom in world models.
Perhaps for the current implementations this is true. But the reason the current versions keep failing is that world dynamics has multiple orders of magnitude fewer degrees of freedom than the models that are tasked to learn them. We waste so much compute learning to approximate the constraints that are inherent in the world, and LeCun has been pressing the point the past few years that the models he intends to design will obviate the excess degrees of freedom to stabilize training (and constrain inference to physically plausible states).
If my assumption is true then expect Max Tegmark to be intimately involved in this new direction.
By masteranza 2026-03-1020:113 reply A few years ago I've made this simple thought experiment to convince myself that LLM's won't achieve superhuman level (in the sense of being better than all human experts):
Imagine that we made an LLM out of all dolphin songs ever recorded, would such LLM ever reach human level intelligence? Obviously and intuitively the answer is NO.
Your comment actually extended this observation for me sparking hope that systems consuming natural world as input might actually avoid this trap, but then I realized that tool use & learning can in fact be all that's needed for singularity while consuming raw data streams most of the time might actually be counterproductive.
By kadushka 2026-03-1022:26 Imagine that we made an LLM out of all dolphin songs ever recorded, would such LLM ever reach human level intelligence?
It could potentially reach super-dolphin level intelligence
By hodgehog11 2026-03-1022:31 I mean no offense here, but I really don't like this attitude of "I thought for a bit and came up with something that debunks all of the experts!". It's the same stuff you see with climate denialism, but it seems to be considered okay when it comes to AI. As if the people that spend all day every day for decades have not thought of this.
Dataset limitations have been well understood since the dawn of statistics-based AI, which is why these models are trained on data and RL tasks that are as wide as possible, and are assessed by generalization performance. Most of the experts in ML, even the mathematically trained ones, within the last few years acknowledge that superintelligence (under a more rigorous definition than the one here) is quite possible, even with only the current architectures. This is true even though no senior researcher in the field really wants superintelligence to be possible, hence the dozens of efforts to disprove its potential existence.
By smokel 2026-03-1112:21 > Imagine that we made an LLM out of all dolphin songs ever recorded, would such LLM ever reach human level intelligence? Obviously and intuitively the answer is NO.
Not so fast. People have built pretty amazing thought frameworks out of a few axioms, a few bits, or a few operations in a Turing machine. Dolphin songs are probably more than enough to encode the game of life. It's just how you look at it that makes it intelligence.
By rvz 2026-03-1011:14 A lot more justifiable than say, Thinking Machines at least. But we will "see".
World models and vision seems like a great use case for robotics which I can imagine that being the main driver of AMI.
By vidarh 2026-03-118:41 It's just not true LLMs are limited to "static text". Data is data. Sensory input is still just data, and multimodal models has been a thing for a while. Ongoing learning and more extensive short term memory is a challenge, and so I am all for research in alternative architectures, but so much of the discourse about the limitations of LLMs act as if they have limitations they do not have.
By robrenaud 2026-03-1015:36 Was Alphago's move 37 original?
In the last step of training LLMs, reinforcement learning from verified rewards, LLMs are trained to maximize the probability of solving problems using their own output, depending on a reward signal akin to winning in Go. It's not just imitating human written text.
Fwiw, I agree that world models and some kind of learning from interacting with physical reality, rather than massive amounts of digitized gym environments is likely necessary for a breakthrough for AGI.
By mountainriver 2026-03-112:05 Okay but most modern LLMs are multimodal, and it’s fairly easy to make an LLM multimodal.
Also there is no evidence that novel discoveries are more than remixes. This is heavily debated but from what we’ve seen so far I’m not sure I would bet against remix.
World models are great for specific kinds of RL or MPC. Yann is betting heavily on MPC, I’m not sure I agree with this as it’s currently computationally intractable at scale
By jimbo808 2026-03-111:36 You're right that world models are the bottleneck, but people underestimate the staggering complexity gap between modeling the physical world and modeling a one-dimensional stream of text. Not only is the real world high-dimensional, continuous, noisy, and vastly more information dense, it's also not something for which there is an abundance of training data.
why LLMs (transformers trained on multimodal token sequences, potentially containing spatiotemporal information) can't be a world model?
By ForHackernews 2026-03-1011:302 reply https://medium.com/state-of-the-art-technology/world-models-...
> One major critique LeCun raises is that LLMs operate only in the realm of language, which is a simple, discrete space compared to the continuous, complex physical world we live in. LLMs can solve math problems or answer trivia because such tasks reduce to pattern completion on text, but they lack any meaningful grounding in physical reality. LeCun points out a striking paradox: we now have language models that can pass the bar exam, solve equations, and compute integrals, yet “where is our domestic robot? Where is a robot that’s as good as a cat in the physical world?” Even a house cat effortlessly navigates the 3D world and manipulates objects — abilities that current AI notably lacks. As LeCun observes, “We don’t think the tasks that a cat can accomplish are smart, but in fact, they are.”
But they don't only operate on language? They operate on token sequences, which can be images, coordinates, time, language, etc.
By kergonath 2026-03-1012:04 It’s an interesting observation, but I think you have it backwards. The examples you give are all using discrete symbols to represent something real and communicating this description to other entities. I would argue that all your examples are languages.
By mrguyorama 2026-03-1017:48 How is a Linear stream of symbols able to capture the relationships of a real world?
It's like the people who are so hyped up about voice controlled computers. Like you get a linear stream of symbols is a huge downgrade in signals, right? I don't want computer interaction to be yet more simplified and worsened.
Compare with domain experts who do real, complicated work with computers, like animators, 3D modelers, CAD, etc. A mouse with six degrees of freedom, and a strong training in hotkeys to command actions and modes, and a good mental model of how everything is working, and these people are dramatically more productive at manipulating data than anyone else.
Imagine trying to talk a computer through nudging a bunch of vertexes through 3D space while flexibly managing modes of "drag" on connected vertexes. It would be terrible. And no, you would not replace that with a sentence of "Bot, I want you to nudge out the elbow of that model" because that does NOT do the same thing at all. An expert being able to fluidly make their idea reality in real time is just not even remotely close to the instead "Project Manager/mediocre implementer" relationship you get prompting any sort of generative model. The models aren't even built to contain specific "Style", so they certainly won't be opinionated enough to have artistic vision, and a strong understanding of what does and does not work in the right context, or how to navigate "My boss wants something stupid that doesn't work and he's a dumb person so how do I convince him to stop the dumb idea and make him think that was his idea?"
By samrus 2026-03-1012:52 Whats the first L stand for? Thats not just vestogial, their model of the world is formed almost exclusively from language rather than a range of things contributing significantly like for humans.
The biggest thing thats missing is actual feedback to their decisions. They have no "idea of that because transformers and embeddings dont model that yet. And langiage descriptions and image representations of feedback arent enough. They are too disjointed. It needs more
By mrguyorama 2026-03-1017:27 >We don’t think the tasks that a cat can accomplish are smart, but in fact, they are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec%27s_paradox
All the things we look at as "Smart" seem to be the things we struggle with, not what is objectively difficult, if that can even be defined.
I really hate the world model terminology, but the actual low level gripe between LeCunn and autoregressive LLMs as they stand now is the fact that the loss function needs to reconstruct the entirety of the input. Anything less than pixel perfect reconstruction on images is penalized. Token by token reconstruction also is biased towards that same level of granularity.
The density of information in the spatiotemporal world is very very great, and a technique is needed to compress that down effectively. JEPAs are a promising technique towards that direction, but if you're not reconstructing text or images, it's a bit harder for humans to immediately grok whether the model is learning something effectively.
I think that very soon we will see JEPA based language models, but their key domain may very well be in robotics where machines really need to experience and reason about the physical the world differently than a purely text based world.
Isn't the Sora video model a ViT with spatiotemporal inputs (so they've found a way to compress that down), but at the same time LeCunn wouldn't consider that a world model?
By LarsDu88 2026-03-1023:25 VideoGen models have to have decoder output heads that reproduce pixel level frames. The loss function involes producing plausible image frames that requires a lot of detailed reconstruction.
I assume that when you get out of bed in the morning, the first thing you dont do is paint 1000 1080p pictures of what your breakfast looks like.
LeCunns models predict purely in representation space and output no pixel scale detailed frames. Instead you train a model to generate a dower dimension representation of the same thing from different views, penalizing if the representation is different ehen looking at the same thing
By whiplash451 2026-03-1013:101 reply The term LLM is confusing your point because VLMs belong to the same bin according to Yann.
Using the term autoregressive models instead might help.
By kadushka 2026-03-1022:34 Diffusion models are not autoregressive but have the same limitations
Whether it is text or an image, it is just bits for a computer. A token can represent anything.
Sure, but don't conflate the representation format with the structure of what's being represented.
Everything is bits to a computer, but text training data captures the flattened, after-the-fact residue of baseline human thought: Someone's written description of how something works. (At best!)
A world model would need to capture the underlying causal, spatial, and temporal structure of reality itself -- the thing itself, that which generates those descriptions.
You can tokenize an image just as easily as a sentence, sure, but a pile of images and text won't give you a relation between the system and the world. A world model, in theory, can. I mean, we ought to be sufficient proof of this, in a sense...
By firecall 2026-03-1011:29 It’s worth noting how our human relationship or understanding of our world model changed as our tools to inspect and describe our world advanced.
So when we think about capturing any underlying structure of reality itself, we are constrained by the tools at hand.
The capability of the tool forms the description which grants the level of understanding.
By Bombthecat 2026-03-1023:421 reply Can a token represent concentration, will?
By 10xDev 2026-03-1111:00 Those sound more like emergent properties then something you can engineer.
There will be no "unlocking of AGI" until we develop a new science capable of artificial comprehension. Comprehension is the cornucopia that produces everything we are, given raw stimulus an entire communicating Universe is generated with a plethora of highly advanceds predator/prey characters in an infinitely complex dynamic, and human science and technology have no lead how to artificially make sense of that in a simultaneous unifying whole. That's comprehension.
By 8bitsrule 2026-03-117:53 Gotta say, good luck with that effort. Lenat started Cyc 42 years ago, and after a while it seemed to disappear. 'Understanding' the 'physical world' is something that a few -may- start to approach intuitively after a decade or five of experience. (Einstein, Maxwell, et.al.) But the idea of feeding a machine facts and equations ... and dependence on human observations ... seems unlikely to lead to 'mastering the physical world'. Let alone for $1Billon.
By _s_a_m_ 2026-03-111:13 Really? As if not everyone told him the last 10 years, especially Gary Marcus which he ridiculed on Twitter at every occasion and now silently like a dog returning home switches to Gary's position. As if anyone was waiting for this, even 5 years ago this was old news, Tenenbaum is building world models for a long time. People in pop venture capital culture don't seem to know what is going on in research. Makes them easier to milk.
Honestly, how do people who know so little have this much confidence to post here?
By mvc 2026-03-1019:14 You must be new here
By stevenhuang 2026-03-118:55
By chriskanan 2026-03-1020:502 reply I had lunch with Yann last August, about a week after Alex Wang became his "boss." I asked him how he felt about that, and at the time he told me he would give it a month or two and see how it goes, and then figure out if he should stay or find employment elsewhere. I told him he ought to just create his own company if he decides to leave Meta to chase his own dream, rather than work on the dream's of others.
That said, while I 100% agree with him that LLM's won't lead to human-like intelligence (I think AGI is now an overloaded term, but Yann uses it in its original definition), I'm not fully on board with his world model strategy as the path forward.
By yalok 2026-03-1023:45 > I'm not fully on board with his world model strategy as the path forward
can you please elaborate on your strategy as the path forward?
You have to understand the strategy of all the other players:
Build attention-grabbing, monetizable models that subsidize (at least in part) the run up to AGI.
Nobody is trying to one-shot AGI. They're grinding and leveling up while (1) developing core competencies around every aspect of the problem domain and (2) winning users.
I don't know if Meta is doing a good job of this, but Google, Anthropic, and OpenAI are.
Trying to go straight for the goal is risky. If the first results aren't economically viable or extremely exciting, the lab risks falling apart.
This is the exact point that Musk was publicly attacking Yann on, and it's likely the same one that Zuck pressed.
By SilverBirch 2026-03-1110:40 There's two points here. The first is that a strategy of monetizing models to fund the goal of reaching AI is indistinguishable from just running a business selling LLM model access, you don't actually need to be trying to reach AGI you can just run an LLM company and that is probably what these companies are largely doing. The AGI talk is just a recruiting/marketing strategy.
Secondly, it's not clear that the current LLMs are a run up to AGI. That's what LeCun is betting - that the LLM labs are chasing a local maxima.
By YetAnotherNick 2026-03-117:45 > Trying to go straight for the goal is risky.
That's the point of it. You need to take more risk for different approach. Same as what OpenAI did initially.
I mean, Sutskevar and Carmack are trying to one-shot AGI. We just don't talk about them as much as we do the labs with products because their labs aren't selling products.
By boulos 2026-03-1117:01 On recent podcasts, Ilya says he's no longer assuming they can jump straight there.
> But this is not an applied AI company.
There is absolutely no doubt about Yann's impact on AI/ML, but he had access to many more resources in Meta, and we didn't see anything.
It could be a management issue, though, and I sincerely wish we will see more competition, but from what I quoted above, it does not seem like it.
Understanding world through videos (mentioned in the article), is just what video models have already done, and they are getting pretty good (see Seedance, Kling, Sora .. etc). So I'm not quite sure how what he proposed would work.
"and we didn't see anything" is not justified at all.
Meta absolutely has (or at least had) a word class industry AI lab and has published a ton of great work and open source models (granted their LLM open source stuff failed to keep up with chinese models in 2024/2025 ; their other open source stuff for thins like segmentation don't get enough credit though). Yann's main role was Chief AI Scientist, not any sort of product role, and as far as I can tell he did a great job building up and leading a research group within Meta.
He deserved a lot of credit for pushing Meta to very open to publishing research and open sourcing models trained on large scale data.
Just as one example, Meta (together with NYU) just published "Beyond Language Modeling: An Exploration of Multimodal Pretraining" (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2603.03276) which has a ton of large-experiment backed insights.
Yann did seem to end up with a bit of an inflated ego, but I still consider him a great research lead. Context: I did a PhD focused on AI, and Meta's group had a similar pedigree as Google AI/Deepmind as far as places to go do an internship or go to after graduation.
By nextos 2026-03-115:45 For instance, under Yann's direction Meta FAIR produced the ESM protein sequence model, which is less hyped than AlphaFold, but has been incredibly influential. They achieved great performance without using multiple alignments as an input/inductive bias. This is incredibly important for large classes of proteins where multiple alignments are pretty much noise.
I wasn't criticising his scientific contribution at all, that's why I started my comment by appraising what he did.
Creating a startup has to be about a product. When you raise 1B, investors are expecting returns, not papers.
> Creating a startup has to be about a product. When you raise 1B, investors are expecting returns, not papers.
Speaking of returns - Apple absolutely fucked Meta ads with the privacy controls, which trashed ad performance, revenue and share price. Meta turned things around using AI, with Yann as the lead researcher. Are you willing to give him credit for that? Revenue is now greater than pre-Apple-data-lockdown
By yellow_lead 2026-03-115:191 reply How much of Meta's increased revenue is attributed to AI? I think Meta "turned things around" by bypassing privacy controls [1].
[1] https://9to5mac.com/2025/08/21/meta-allegedly-bypassed-apple...
> I think Meta "turned things around" by bypassing privacy controls
Why would Apple be complicit on this for years?
Apple has allowed Facebook, TikTok etc. to track users across devices AND device resets via the iCloud Keychain API.
When you log into FB on any account on any device, then install FB on a new device, or even after you erase the device, they know it's you even before you log in. Because the info is tied to your Apple iCloud account.
And there's no way for users to see or delete what data other companies have stored and linked to your Apple ID via that API.
It's been like this for at least 5 years and nobody seems to care.
By twoWhlsGud 2026-03-1115:491 reply Is there a write up of this somewhere? Curious to read more...
By Razengan 2026-03-1116:43 None that I found. You can test it right now yourself. Install FB, log in, delete FB, reinstall FB. Your previous login info will be there.
That would be fine if users could SEE what has been stored and DELETE it WITHOUT going through the app and trusting it to show you everything honestly.
What's even worse is that it silently persists across DEVICE reinstalls.
Erase and reset your iPhone/iPad. Sign into the same iCloud account. Reinstall FB. Your login info will still be there.
Buy a new iPhone/iPad. Sign into the same iCloud account. Reinstall FB. Your login info will still be there.
And nope, no one seems to care.
By nonameiguess 2026-03-1110:06 They're expecting what you promised them when they handed over the money. That is "more money" for most investors but that isn't the sole universal human objective. Money has to serve an instrumental purpose and if one of your purposes is something that can't currently be achieved, simply getting more money won't help. You need to give that money to some venture that might actually be able to achieve it. I have no doubt there are at least a few very rich people out there who just have sci-fi nerd dreams and want to see someone go to Mars, go to Jupiter, discover alien life, rebuild dinosaurs, or create a truly autonomous entirely new form of artificial life just to see if they can. If it makes money, great. If it doesn't, what else was I going to do? Die with $60 billion in the bank instead of $40 billion?
By magicalist 2026-03-1017:30 >> but he had access to many more resources in Meta, and we didn't see anything
> I wasn't criticising his scientific contribution at all, that's why I started my comment by appraising what he did.
You were criticising his output at Facebook, though, but he was in the research group at facebook, not a product group, so it seems like we did actually see lots of things?
By JMiao 2026-03-1019:28 they are not expecting returns at 1B+, just for some one to pay more than they paid six months ago
> There is absolutely no doubt about Yann's impact on AI/ML, but he had access to many more resources in Meta, and we didn't see anything.
That's true for 99% of the scientists, but dismissing their opinion based on them not having done world shattering / ground breaking research is probably not the way to go.
> I sincerely wish we will see more competition
I really wish we don't, science isn't markets.
> Understanding world through videos
The word "understanding" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I find myself prompting again and again for corrections on an image or a summary and "it" still does not "understand" and keeps doing the same thing over and over again.
By GorbachevyChase 2026-03-1016:34 Do not keep bad results in context. You have to purge them to prevent them from effecting the next output. LLMs deceptively capable, but they don’t respond like a person. You can’t count on implicit context. You can’t count on parts of the implicit context having more weight than others.
By YetAnotherNick 2026-03-1014:162 reply > we didn't see anything.
Is it a troll? Even if we just ignore Llama, Meta invented and released so many foundational research and open source code. I would say that the computer vision field would be years behind if Meta didn't publish some core research like DETR or MAE.
By famouswaffles 2026-03-1017:571 reply You should ignore Llama because by his own admission,
>My only contribution was to push for Llama 2 to be open sourced.
By rockinghigh 2026-03-110:24 He founded the team that worked on fasttext, llama and other similarly impactful projects.
By koolala 2026-03-1020:08 Did he work on those vision models?
By torginus 2026-03-1014:03 Most folks get paid a lot more in a corporate job than tinkering at home - using the 'follow the money' logic it would make sense they would produce their most inspired works as 9-5 full stack engineers.
But often passion and freedom to explore are often more important than resources
That's such a terrible take.
For a hot minute Meta had a top 3 LLM and open sourced the whole thing, even with LeCunn's reservations around the technology.
At the same time Meta spat out huge breakthroughs in:
- 3d model generation
- Self-supervised label-free training (DINO). Remember Alexandr Wang built a multibillion dollar company just around having people in third world countries label data, so this is a huge breakthrough.
- A whole new class of world modeling techniques (JEPAs)
- SAM (Segment anything)
> - Self-supervised label-free training (DINO). Remember Alexandr Wang built a multibillion dollar company just around having people in third world countries label data, so this is a huge breakthrough.
If it was a breakthrough, why did Meta acquire Wang and his company? I'm genuinely curious.
By airstrike 2026-03-1020:29 People make stupid acquisitions all of the time.
By LarsDu88 2026-03-1023:17 Wang fits the profile of a possible successor ceo for meta. Young, hit it big early, hit the ai book early straight out of college. Obviously not woke (just look at his public statements).
Unfotunately the dude knows very little about ai or ml research. He's just another wealthy grifter.
At this point decision making at Meta is based on Zuckerberg's vibes, and i suspect the emperor has no clothes.
By dabeeeenster 2026-03-1022:26 > It could be a management issue, though
Or, maybe it's just hard?
I can’t reconcile this dichotomy: most of the landmark deep learning papers were developed with what, by today’s standards, were almost ridiculously small training budgets — from Transformers to dropout, and so on.
So I keep wondering: if his idea is really that good — and I genuinely hope it is — why hasn’t it led to anything truly groundbreaking yet? It can’t just be a matter of needing more data or more researchers. You tell me :-D
Its a matter of needing more time, which is a resource even SV VCs are scared to throw around. Look at the timeline of all these advancements and how long it took
Lecun introduced backprop for deep learning back in 1989 Hinton published about contrastive divergance in next token prediction in 2002 Alexnet was 2012 Word2vec was 2013 Seq2seq was 2014 AiAYN was 2017 UnicornAI was 2019 Instructgpt was 2022
This makes alot of people think that things are just accelerating and they can be along for the ride. But its the years and years of foundational research that allows this to be done. That toll has to be paid for the successsors of LLMs to be able to reason properly and operate in the world the way humans do. That sowing wont happen as fast as the reaping did. Lecun was to plant those seeds, the others who onky was to eat the fruit dont get that they have to wait
If his ideas had real substance, we would have seen substantial results by now. He introduced I-JEPA in 2023, so almost three years ago at this point.
If he still hasn’t produced anything truly meaningful after all these years at Meta, when is that supposed to happen? Yann LeCun has been at Facebook/Meta since December 2013.
Your chronological sequence is interesting, but it refers to a time when the number of researchers and the amount of compute available were a tiny fraction of what they are today.
> If his ideas had real substance, we would have seen substantial results by now
This is naive. Like saying if backprop had any real substance, it would have had results within 10 years of its publication in 1989
> Your chronological sequence is interesting, but it refers to a time when the number of researchers and the amount of compute available were a tiny fraction of what they are today.
Again. Those resources are important. But one resource being ignored is time. Try baking a turkey at 300 for 4 hours veruss at 900 for 1 hour and see how edible each one is
By _giorgio_ 2026-03-1211:49 Backprop kept producing wins. That bought it time.
“Wait longer” is not a blank check. In 2026, with Meta-scale talent, data, and compute, serious ideas should show strong intermediate results, not just theory.
Time is necessary, but it is not evidence. More compute does not replace insight, but it does speed up falsification.
So no, skepticism is not naive. If a research program still cannot point to a clear empirical advantage after years, “it just needs more time” stops sounding like science and starts sounding like insulation from the scoreboard.
llama models pushed the envelope for a while, and having them "open-weight" allowed a lot of tinkering. I would say that most of fine tuned evolved from work on top of llama models.
Llama wasn’t Yann LeCun’s work and he was openly critical of LLMs, so it’s not very relevant in this context.
Source: himself https://x.com/ylecun/status/1993840625142436160 (“I never worked on any Llama.”) and a million previous reports and tweets from him.
By rockinghigh 2026-03-110:221 reply He founded FAIR and the team in Paris that ultimately worked on the early Llama versions.
By oefrha 2026-03-112:38 FAIR was founded in 2015 and Llama's first release was in 2023. Musk co-founded OpenAI in 2015 but no reasonable person credits ChatGPT in 2022 to him.
> My only contribution was to push for Llama 2 to be open sourced.
Quite a big contribution in practice.
By oefrha 2026-03-1016:03 Sure, but I don't that's relevant in a startup with 1B VC money either. Meta can afford to (attempt to) commoditize their complement.
By lee 2026-03-110:03 In an interview, Yann mentioned that one reason he left Meta was that they were very focused on LLMs and he no longer believed LLMs were the path forward to reaching AGI.
By the_real_cher 2026-03-1011:44 He was suffocated by the corporate aspect Meta I suspect.
By htrp 2026-03-1114:34 this is absolutely an applied ai company, the only question is whether the applied AI will be subordinated to the research
By nashadelic 2026-03-1015:21 Your take is brutal but spot on
