Homes need to be built for better internet

2023-12-0816:20100252www.theverge.com

We all use Wi-Fi, so it’d be nice if our houses were built for it.

Part of /

Until a couple of months ago, I hadn’t lived in a “smart home” built within the last five years. I was lured in by the availability of symmetrical 1GB fiber internet for the same $100 that got me 500Mbps of asymmetrical cable at my previous apartment. But I encountered more obstacles getting it set up than a track and field hurdler, everything from a missing fiber gateway port to my $1,000 robot vacuum losing connection every time it tried to clean too far away from the router. I was saved by the ethernet ports in every room and my off-the-shelf Asus gaming router, but I couldn’t (and still can’t) do anything about the cable Cthulhu monstrosity lurking behind a metal plate in my closet that drives most of my frustration.

It turns out that the “smart homes of the future” cannot run on Wi-Fi alone thanks to the materials we’ve been using to construct our homes cheaply and quickly for decades. Over the last several years, more engineering and architecture firms have started including ethernet wiring in their building plans, but that’s as far as the digital infrastructure of a home usually goes. What’s forgotten is not only where the pre-built internet hub is placed inside the building but also what materials are used for construction.

An image of an internet equipment and its many, many wires, tucked into a wall. The metal cover for the nook is on the floor beside.

Clearly, the best place for a router is in the wall, behind a metal plate, at ankle level.
Photo by Joanna Nelius / The Verge

I’m going to use my new home as an example. It was built with an “internet hub.” Every ethernet cable and coax cable threaded through the walls terminates inside a nook because that nook is where cable and fiber enter the house. The ISP’s provided modem / router goes inside the nook and is then covered with a wobbly metal plate that gets screwed into the wall at the corners.

The Information Technology and Innovation Foundation (ITIF) noted in a recent blog post that if the US were to focus a significant chunk of its efforts on creating a better digital infrastructure instead of “fixing” our physical infrastructure, it would result in “superior longer-term economic growth, competitiveness, national security, and environmental benefits.” This includes outfitting buildings and dwellings with wired Gigabit fiber internet and, more importantly, taking into consideration which materials would obstruct Wi-Fi signals the least.

A plethora of architects, civil engineers, and project managers across Orange and Los Angeles counties in California all told me the same thing: Wi-Fi-penetrating materials typically aren’t a consideration unless it’s a large structure like an office building or warehouse; telecom technicians are called in then, but mainly to help with wiring. However, those same people told me they’ve been able to reduce construction costs significantly by wiring residences for ethernet as they are building them.

The cost of common building materials like brick, wood, drywall, plywood, concrete, metal, and acoustic ceiling tiles is usually cheaper than Wi-Fi-penetrating materials, especially if they are sustainable — although the cost of even common materials has sharply increased by 20.4 percent year over year as of April 2022, according to the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB). With many states in the middle of a severe housing crisis driven in part by those rising material costs, it’s likely many companies will continue to build for speed. California, for example, needs 2.5 million new, affordable homes, and at least 1 million of those must be for low-income families or those experiencing houselessness.

As for older buildings, a recent study published by several members of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, or IEEE, mentions that wireless signals running on mmWave (millimeter wave) or high-frequency bands like Verizon’s 5G home internet have worse “penetration loss” when the signal is being received from outside. Depending on which wave band is being used and what materials are on the outside of the building, that penetration loss can be severe to the point where the Wi-Fi signal can only penetrate a single room.

With cost reductions and speed currently at the forefront of many building projects, this puts the burden on the people living there to diagnose their own Wi-Fi issues and adds to the overall cost of getting internet set up in a home. And look, that’s no different than what many of us have been doing over the last couple of decades, but not everyone has the technical know-how or the extra cash to do it.

DIY-ing your own ethernet installation can cost several hundred dollars for the equipment alone. But even if you watch a bunch of YouTube videos and are confident you can do it yourself, and have convinced your landlord you can do it (assuming they even entertain the idea in the first place), that’s not the same as actually doing it. The other alternative is paying a professional thousands of dollars to wire your place with a few Cat 5 cables. (Preferably better than the setup built into my apartment.)

I have the privilege of knowing how to troubleshoot this stuff on my own largely due to my profession as a tech journalist. To others, this stuff is a foreign language. Knowing how to set up a home internet system is not a skill everyone has, and the complicated steps required to do it properly make moving to a new place more stressful, especially if you work remotely and need the internet to earn a paycheck.

If we don’t want our homes to eat Wi-Fi signals, companies will need to start eating the cost of choosing better Wi-Fi-penetrating materials — or, at the very least, they will need to stop putting fiber connection points literally inside walls.


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Comments

  • By matthewaveryusa 2023-12-0818:3010 reply

    What we really need are architects that add chases throughout the house so that you can add any matter of cable you want, be that electrical, plumbing, cable, fiber or cat.

    I have a chase in the middle of my house which used to be a chimney for a now decommissioned oil burner. I have all matter of cables going through there now, including, but not limited to two cat cables that provide ethernet to my attic and second floor. Not sure I would have been able to DIY it without that chase.

    If each house had a couple of these chases that would provide a ton of flexibility in terms of remodeling.

    • By mlhpdx 2023-12-0818:411 reply

      Yep. This kind of forethought is rare in home design, but magical when present. It doesn’t sell, though (not like the latest color or cabinets do).

      I put thought into long term maintenance and upgrades for my current house and for the first few years got nothing from it. As I’ve had to do repairs recently I’ve saved literally thousands of dollars because the wires, pipes, conduits and fittings are all easily accessible.

      • By guhidalg 2023-12-0819:41

        Similar thought with boats, you don’t appreciate how valuable maintenance ease is until YOU have to do it.

    • By dbcurtis 2023-12-0820:491 reply

      Yes, exactly this. Although, fire codes do create a requirement here. You have to be sure not to create places where fire can propagate. And please use plenum-rated cables (fire retardant sheath). If you have punched holes in your old chimney in order to pass cables in and out, I'd do a fire propagation audit and mitigate any problems that you find.

      40 years ago, the U of Minnesota built a new Elec Engg building. As I remember it, every single office for faculty and grad students, as well as every lab, backed up to a secure 6-foot wide hallway that was built specifically to be a cable chase. Brilliant idea. Experimenting with a new technology was a matter of changing out the access plate in the back wall of the office, and rounding up someone with a key to the hallway.

      • By xnx 2023-12-0913:41

        Dedicating a whole hallway sound like an extremely expensive accommodation for hypothetical use.

    • By Someone1234 2023-12-0819:083 reply

      How does this work with IBC/IFC building code requirements to have a fire-stop between floors? Even assuming the conduit itself is correctly rated, you need to seal the interior while somehow still allowing future wiring to be added without the need to remove a wall.

      I guess my point is: You'll fail inspection unless you're extremely careful. It isn't obvious how to add generic future conduit without fire-stops being a huge PITA (since the same thing stopping smoke/fire also stops you running cable).

      Keep in mind new construction is held to a higher standard (newer version of IBC/IFC) than grandfathering into existing building.

      • By matthewaveryusa 2023-12-0819:42

        I did what sokka mentioned. rockwool at both the top and bottom. The chimney is still present so there's a cast iron 4" pipe which is my conduit. When the previous owner decomissioned the oil tank they chopped the top and bottom of the chimney off and added caps at both ends and the roof was patched. All the cables go all the way through to the attic and I hit the second floor from the attic. Not sure it'll be to the liking of all inspectors but to me it's reasonable.

      • By jcrawfordor 2023-12-0819:40

        There are plenty of easy to use commercial products for fire rated, reworkable cable penetrations. Unfortunately they are rather expensive so you'll want to minimize usage. There's also foam and plaster products that meet latest codes but they're not as friendly to rework (chip them out and replace).

      • By sokka_h2otribe 2023-12-0819:101 reply

        Rockwool

        • By Someone1234 2023-12-0819:401 reply

          That won't pass inspection. Ignoring the fact that Rockwool isn't certified as a conduit fire-stop, you also cannot demonstrate its existence to a building inspector.

          This is a hard/annoying problem to solve, "shove some insulation in the pipe" isn't in the ballpark of what a solution might look like.

          • By madamelic 2023-12-0823:45

            Low voltage wire, to my understanding, does not in most / all US States require inspection or permits.

            It's definitely 'encouraged' to put in fire stops and seal the holes you make but very few states in the US, if any, will stop you if you choose not to because they won't know.

    • By mattferderer 2023-12-0820:40

      I believe if you build with SIP (structured insulated panels) you get these built in often - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfvjvDlVzLs

      Saw an ICF house a decade ago where they did some thin channel mounted on the wall & they ran everything through there instead of cutting into the ICF. Can't remember how it worked with the dry wall.

      Would be nice to see interior walls built with such a thing.

    • By ska 2023-12-0821:261 reply

      I've seen this done a couple of times, but somebody has to push for it.

      In standard suburban construction, this will never happen. These developers will cheap out to save $15 on a ventilation fan, they aren't going to run anything extra if people aren't demanding it.

      To a 1st approximation, nobody (in the buying public) knows or cares.

    • By babypuncher 2023-12-0820:01

      At the very least there should be conduit between every room in the house and the utility closet. Wi-Fi is a miracle of modern engineering, but it will never truly be able to compete with the speed and reliability afforded by a hard copper or fiber optic interlink.

      Higher density housing can be extra frustrating. My single family home is in a community dense enough to require fireblock in the walls on upper floors, and it has made running my own ethernet an even bigger pain in the ass than usual.

    • By em-bee 2023-12-0819:49

      absolutely.

      when we had an electrician dig new chases to completely rewire the electricity in my grandparents apartment in a century old building, i asked him to add an additional pipe everywhere so that i could wire ethernet as well. every room got at least one or two, some more. the key thing was that even though we didn't use most of those extra pipes, adding them barely cost more than the material, because the work to dig the chases didn't change.

    • By noja 2023-12-0818:395 reply

      An architect will optimise for liveable space. Whoever pays them can choose less liveable space in exchange for a chase. Most normal house purchasers won´t go for it.

      • By somehnguy 2023-12-0818:491 reply

        Why would you need to prioritize one over the other? Plumbing, electrical, etc already utilize the same spaces inside of walls and floors. No reason this couldn’t be done the same way without cutting down the living area at all.

        • By Nevermark 2023-12-0820:271 reply

          From a spacial perspective you are right, of course.

          Perhaps the tradeoff is that for any given house price, the time & money cost of planning and adding "hidden" features that buyers seldom think to prioritize, has to be offset by reductions in other value that buyers are more likely to notice. But, not necessarily space.

          • By Retric 2023-12-093:23

            Sure, but space maximizing cost efficiency isn’t a major priority in most homes as otherwise they would all end up as boxes with simple roof lines and uniform exteriors. Clearly modern subdivisions simply don’t look like that.

      • By mlhpdx 2023-12-0818:50

        I think most residential homes in the US aren’t the work of architects these days, but designers. The difference being credentials, not diligence/skill.

        Either way I suspect they aren’t optimizing for living space, but salability and construction cost. That’s what buyers will actually use in decisions - ability to pay and perception of quality/value.

      • By Retric 2023-12-0818:48

        A chase doesn’t reduce living space, it may however compromise sound deadening between rooms.

      • By notyofriend 2023-12-0921:57

        Idk wtf architects optimize for. Some sort of truisms about what buyers want and builder cost I think because a lot of houses are designed really poorly.

      • By Vvector 2023-12-0818:491 reply

        Does an 8" chase have that much effect on livable space? Would 2980 sqft vs 2979 sqft make any difference to most buyers?

        • By mlhpdx 2023-12-0818:51

          No, but it would add to build time and cost. And generally be one more thing to think about for the designer/builder and we know how that goes.

    • By jpc0 2023-12-098:53

      Generally high voltage ( electrical ) and low voltage ( network) should be in physically seperate conduit.

      This is both for safety (heat as well as cable breaks) and for actual noise issues.

      This is something that should be done by an engineering firm no an architect, the architect should know it needs to be contracted out though.

      Most property just isn't built to those kinds of margins.

    • By Turing_Machine 2023-12-090:17

      You might be able to do this for coax, fiber, Cat-N, or other low-voltage (or optical) communications lines, but code specifies minimum physical separation distances between gas, plumbing, sewer, and line voltage.

  • By bastard_op 2023-12-0817:317 reply

    Home builders are probably the worst option to design a home network as they're only interested in mass-producing crap as quick as possible, and they have no idea the difference between cat5, cat7, or fiber. You're lucky if you get electrical outlets in the right places and orientation.

    My friend that is like me a network engineer just bought/building a new house, and was talking about getting a 8 port switch. I was like what, for a new, large-ish house? He was talking about just doing wireless, and I'm like ugh, but what about all your kids watching netflix on 8k+ tv's, all on wireless at the same time and complaining to you, you'll wish you had wired their tv's. Not to mention security cameras, doorbells, multiple AP's potentially, ethernet-based sensors for things, etc, all things that need Power over Ethernet too, or at least benefit from it. It got him thinking at least.

    Then he went back to the builder and the builder gave him 2 options, take what they give, which is an ethernet drop in each room in a random spot back to a closet of whatever cable they happen to have that day, or nothing. I'd have been pissed, and he was at that point. I told him better luck next time on his next house.

    It shouldn't take a network engineer to build a decent home network, but apparently it does and any home builder worth a damn should in the modern age should consider it.

    • By instagib 2023-12-0818:141 reply

      A co-worker became friends with his contractor and put in his own drops in the evening after the workers left.

      My place has two separate drops per room. One for Ethernet and one Ethernet that is setup as a phone line. I picked up a couple used enterprise grade AP’s with traffic shaping and all is good.

      • By madamelic 2023-12-0818:172 reply

        > A co-worker became friends with his contractor and put in his own drops in the evening after the workers left.

        Was talking to my dad over Thanksgiving and that's precisely what he did every time we bought a new house. He would go over to the new house after work and install conduit to the house so he didn't have to tear up the house installing it after drywall.

        • By lotsofpulp 2023-12-0819:021 reply

          How many times did you guys move into a newly constructed house?

          • By madamelic 2023-12-0819:07

            Only twice while I was living with them.

            The first time I think he just did a giant PVC pipe from top to bottom, that's what he said. Seems like there was more to that installation that I should ask about. I was quite a young child when we lived at that house so hearing it had ethernet was surprising.

            The second time he actually did all the ethernet runs while the house was unfinished and I remember it because he'd bring me along.

        • By olyjohn 2023-12-0822:381 reply

          If you're just lazy like me, you just go through an exterior wall, staple the cable up along some trim, and go back through the wall into the room you want the cable. Caulk it up and paint it and you can't even tell it's there. Best to get outdoor-rated, or direct-burial cable. The layer of paint over it also seems to do a pretty good job protecting it.

          • By hakfoo 2023-12-0916:07

            I did this and had durability problems; it broke twice in about eight years. I am attempting to find a contractor to run cables through the walls/attic, which seems to be a frustrating "send in a quote inquiry, then when I get no response in a week call them and see that they actually got the inquiry, but the guy who actually does estimates is backed up."

    • By m463 2023-12-0820:162 reply

      On the other hand, you can still get pretty good bandwidth out of the lowly cat5. You usually don't have 100m runs.

      Over my lifetime I think 10 -> 100 -> 1000 -> 2.5 maybe 10 is usually doable.

      arguably not as good as fiber, which has been reused in steps of orders of magnitude each tech jump.

      • By snuxoll 2023-12-0823:47

        The problem isn't using Cat5E, specifically - as long as they run conduit pulling new cable isn't a big deal. It's the complete lack of planning and design around home networking, which is just as important to our daily lives in 2023 as plumbing and electrical is.

        When my aunt moved her custom sewing shop last October I put more effort into planning the network infrastructure for her modest storefront than homebuilders do for half a million dollar homes.

      • By ghaff 2023-12-0820:39

        People here get obsessed with the highest bandwidth numbers. But, most of the time in a consumer context, it really doesn't matter.

    • By ponector 2023-12-0818:032 reply

      Regular homebuyers would not pay extra thousands dollar for proper network project.

      Unfortunately if you want a decent network - then do it yourself.

      • By nostrademons 2023-12-0818:161 reply

        I've heard the secret to getting contractors to do what you want is "Name a price, then do it." Basically for everything non-standard you want in the build, let them set a price, and then pay it. Oftentimes it'll be a few thousand for extra wiring or moving some outlet around, $25K to raise the roof in a room, something like that. But if they feel like they're getting an extra few grand out of you, many contractors are very willing to do it.

        It does mean that costs frequently balloon, but you should expect that when you do any form of home renovation, and just budget an extra $100K or so for it.

        • By thfuran 2023-12-0818:441 reply

          >and just budget an extra $100K or so for it.

          Yeah, I can't believe everyone isn't jumping right on that.

          • By Fauntleroy 2023-12-0819:111 reply

            Lots of people out here not making the realization they need to be in the top ~20% of earners in their area if they want anything remotely nice in their life.

            Edit: probably higher than that in certain locations where homeownership is impossible

            • By ChadNauseam 2023-12-0819:271 reply

              Only because "remotely nice" is defined relative to people in your neighborhood. What percent of people worldwide have their own bedroom with >10gbps WiFi and an outlet?

              • By Nevermark 2023-12-0820:551 reply

                Not sure the context here is "worldwide". I don't see any comments about running AC to bedrooms.

                Also, "nice" things continually transition to being expected "basic" things. Especially when many people find the upgrades not too onerous. Other people feel natural frustration if happenstance makes the transition to a new norm more difficult for them.

                --

                It took work to get good WiFi signals throughout my home this year. But an 80+ foot tree fell on the roof, centered directly over me in bed without killing me, during a tremendously dark and stormy night. So I won't complain about the signal resistant materials! Too much! In a closely adjecent "verse" I won't be complaining about anything.

                • By yurishimo 2023-12-099:39

                  I think I remember reading another comment from you when this happened! Glad you’re still doing okay and got some nice upgrades in the process of fixing your home!

      • By bdavbdav 2023-12-0818:122 reply

        DIY is really hard to do (neatly) once built. Especially in the UK where even a lot of internal walls are brick.

        • By rickydroll 2023-12-0819:33

          Try in a 1930-40s house with vermiculite insulation. You need asbestos monitoring whenever you crack open a wall or a ceiling. Of course, the same can be said for and 1970-80-90's house with Chinese drywall.

          I'll never get 10G from my basement to 2ed floor office. I can run fiber along the chimney, but there is no way down that doesn't disturb the vermiculite insulation.

          I love old houses, but they present a whole different set of engineering challenges and DIY skills.

        • By ponector 2023-12-0819:10

          Could be messy, but possible. After all, our modern apartments are built with reinforced concrete first and then wires are laid into the walls, floor, ceiling.

    • By xattt 2023-12-0819:421 reply

      I’m planning to wire not only for Ethernet, but also speaker wire. I’m not fully confident in my ability to make sure a ceiling speaker goes in the right place, but I’ll have to resort to that.

      My options are either a guy that does all the big projects (churches, restaurants, houses for people that won’t blink at a 100,000 dollar late-construction review) or myself.

      There’s simply no in-between, because it’s not in the mindset of the general population. Most one-man electrician shows probably have enough issues keeping their phone going.

      • By ghaff 2023-12-0820:42

        I basically have whole house (including outdoor) speaker wire. But, to be honest, this was basically done 20 years ago by an electrician in concert with other work and I'm not sure I'd do it today unless it were really easy.

    • By NewJazz 2023-12-0818:185 reply

      Even if they use a shitty cable you can pull your own cable through after the fact, no? Might not work well with flimsy fiber if they took tight turns, but CAT7 should be fine.

      • By jasode 2023-12-0818:351 reply

        >Even if they use a shitty cable you can pull your own cable through after the fact, no?

        Often you can't use the old (unwanted) cable to act as a "fish tape" or "mouse" to pull a new cable because the old cable is routed through many small holes in 2x4 studs, ceiling plates, or joists. The path usually has several tight 90 degree turns, with staples, and some of the holes are even spray foamed. There would be too much friction inside the walls to pull a cable for non-trivial distances.

        If the old cable was inside of conduit, pulling a new cable could work but that type of install is very rare. Conduit for networking cable is typically only used underground to bury the cable between buildings rather than inside the walls of a single home.

        • By snuxoll 2023-12-0823:51

          Wait, it's 2023 and there are still builders that don't run structured cabling through conduit? Given what they charge to do this as part of a build, putting smurf tube in should be a requirement, not a luxury.

      • By slimginz 2023-12-0818:341 reply

        Not every time. In my current place the cable is stapled directly to the studs so it would require gutting basically everything to replace all of it. Luckily most of the runs go to places that make sense but I’ll never be able to upgrade from CAT5e.

        • By jonhohle 2023-12-0819:581 reply

          That’s how my house is as well. The builder used CAT5 for all of the phone runs. Fortunately it’s a one story with easy attic access. I’ve rerouted many of them to a closet (the originally all terminated outside near the electrical panel) and ran a few more by drilling through top plates in the attic. I don’t have jacks everywhere I’d want, and most of the cable is CAT5, but it generally hasn’t been an issue. Most of the lines seem to support gigabit speeds.

          In my previous house an upstairs leak resulted in a downstairs ceiling coming down which was a boon for wiring up most of the house and adding in ceiling speakers and can lights.

          • By secabeen 2023-12-0820:06

            In some jurisdictions, every wall will have a horizontal 2x4 about half-way down the wall. Drilling through the top-plate will get you started, but you'll need a special 4' long drill-bit to make the second hole you need in that 2x4. It's kind of fun to drill with such a long bit.

      • By jaywalk 2023-12-0818:301 reply

        They don't just leave cables hanging freely behind the walls.

        • By OJFord 2023-12-0819:061 reply

          I assume GP is assuming it would be hanging freely in (in-wall) conduit, which is pretty uncontroversially the best way to do it, just very hard to retrofit.

          And if you are retrofitting a cable run, yeah it probably will be 'just hanging freely behind the walls'.

          • By Someone1234 2023-12-0819:14

            I've been in a newly constructed home with Cat-6, and they stapled it. This was within the last year.

            From builder's perspective it is "controversial" to run conduit because they're trying to tick boxes as cheaply/fast as possible and conduit is the exact opposite of that goal. If you want conduit, I'd assume you have to pay for it as a bespoke upgrade.

      • By LargoLasskhyfv 2023-12-0920:22

        Anywhere CAT7 goes, contemporary 'BIDI'-singlemode fiber goes better. Still no POE in that fiber 'picture', though.

      • By Sylamore 2023-12-0819:09

        Depends, I've seen cat6 stapled to the studs like all the other wiring. I'd probably at least ask for it to be placed in conduit if it were me, but I'd probably also just go in and do the wiring myself before they closed up the walls.

    • By Baeocystin 2023-12-0818:571 reply

      Honestly, modern meshes are fine. I Have clients with large families, everyone streaming at Netflix O'Clock, and the three-pack of Eeros they picked up handle everything without a single hiccup. My last house, many years ago, I did wire up with CAT5e. If I build again in the future, I may not bother.

      • By ghaff 2023-12-0819:381 reply

        As I wrote elsewhere, I've had a fair bit of Ethernet installed when walls were open and other electrical work was being done anyway. But this was years ago and a lot of what I do is over wireless these days. It's probably still a good idea to run some network wiring depending on the house layout but, with meshes, it's probably not really necessary--especially if at least some of the high bandwidth equipment is wired.

        • By Baeocystin 2023-12-0820:401 reply

          Yeah, I do technically have a few runs, for a pair of PoE security cameras. I wound up moving my Synology out of my office in to the garage (it was a rackmount unit, with screeching fans), just plugged in to one of my satellite Eeros, and I literally can't tell in terms of bandwidth. I'm not complaining, it's nice to not have to worry about wires!

          • By ghaff 2023-12-0821:00

            My Synology is fairly low-end one. It's "only" something like a 1.8TB RAID-1. (I think it was probably cheaper than operating my old Linux box with btrfs to do the same thing.) But, yeah, I plug my various wired stuff in where it's convenient but basically don't sweat the details.

    • By avidiax 2023-12-0820:30

      > you'll wish you had wired their tv's.

      Unfortunately, many TVs only have 100Mbps ethernet, and sometimes that ethernet port doesn't even achieve 50Mbps because of software issues. People workaround that by using a USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter with the USB 3.0/3.1 port.

      https://www.howtogeek.com/763255/how-to-add-gigabit-ethernet...

  • By boilerupnc 2023-12-0820:164 reply

    While the discussion has been on wiring and ethernet, I would argue making a digital twin scan for a new home construction before dry-wall goes up is one of the best small money investments I made for the ongoing upkeep of my home. No argument on all smart future proofing ideas for new construction (redundant wire drops, chase pull-wire pipes in 2-3 parts of the house, pre-wiring roof soffets for cameras, etc ...), but it has been priceless to be able to show service folks for big and small jobs ... an X-RAY of my home's studs, wiring and plumbing. I've been able to avert mistakes (protective plate for gas line sitting behind here), plan with the right assumptions (didn't realize there was a horizontal support board between those studs) and visualize possible remodel options (that exhaust duct could easily be re-routed to go out this wall instead). While digital twin scans are more and more common in commercial facility locations to document equipment for repair and insurance purposes - it's amazing to me that this still has not caught on with residential builders as a nice upsell option for trivial effort/cost. The digital twin should live with the deed and be handed over when the house changes owners. Every friend and service person I've shown it to - has commented - "wish I had that for my house".

    • By keehun 2023-12-0820:411 reply

      Along with the other commenters, I'd be interested to know what you used. When I built my home, I took hundreds of photos of all wall and ceiling surfaces. I then later annotated those photo file names to the right places on the blueprint/schematics. Now I look up the photo file name from the schematic and pull up the right photo.

      I would love to be able to just "walk through" and look around in 3D my house before the insulation & drywall went up. I wouldn't want to pay for those 3D house tours that realtors are using now if I built another house and wanted to do something similar.

      • By HackeNewsFan234 2023-12-0821:121 reply

        For my house, I bought one of those 360 cameras, Rico Theta something, it is about 3 years old, and took pics through out the remodel. There is free software to set those up like a 3D house tour, although not as flashy. I did that a few different points in time, but having the pics annotated to be searchable by room name or "wiring" or "duct" is more helpful.

        The 360 camera was hugely helpful because I could take one picture of a room instead of 5-15. I could walk through 3K square feet and take pics of everything in about 15 minutes.

        • By sgerenser 2023-12-0823:18

          I tried to do the same thing using the free matterport app for iOS, but it failed terribly at stitching everything together before the drywall was up. I think it got confused by all the wide open spaces and lack of walls.

          Ended up just taking a video as I walked throughout every room of the house which has generally proven to be helpful a number of times. In retrospect I probably should have looked into picking up a 360 degree camera.

    • By toomuchtodo 2023-12-0820:20

      I would love to hear more about how you did this digital twin scan. Agree it should live with the deed along with a survey, makes life easier for everyone. Planting trees whose shade you may not sit in.

      (scholar of building sciences)

    • By sokoloff 2023-12-0820:54

      We did an analog tech version of that with a VHS camcorder on my parents’ house.

      The only time we had to use it, we had both an inside and outside view that just missed the one key place we were about to work on. :)

      It was good enough to still be helpful (we were able to guess based on the likely path of the NM-B (“Romex”) in the spots we could see), but it was amusing how we missed the key spot by inches twice.

    • By zbrozek 2023-12-0820:331 reply

      Please say more about what service you bought and what data product you got. I would be interested in doing the same.

      • By boilerupnc 2023-12-0821:221 reply

        Replying to all 3 comments ... I considered a couple of options.

        Option 1: I chose this path. I used this company [0] for convenience. They were easy to get a quick quote and found a person local to my area (I'm located in the mid-Atlantic) to do the scan. For < 4000 sqf homes - it takes about 3 - 3.5 hours to fully scan. Cost is dependent on size of area scanned and was in the 3 digit range. Post-pandemic, I suspect with a bit of hunting on gig websites, you can probably find local 3-d scanners who usually are hired by realtors for home-sale scans - but are equally willing to do other scan jobs as well. Many of them use Matterport equipment and from my small anecdote sample - scanning was a hobby which then got turbocharged into fun gig work by the realty virtual tour boom during the pandemic. They own the equipment ... and do scans for some side money.

        Option 2: Buy the scanner camera equipment and DIY.[1]

        At the end, I received a matterport model that was transferred to my free hosted account - limited to 1 model. While I have no need for more than 1, I did want to archive a backup of my model locally for safe-keeping. This project pointed me in the right direction [2]

        Closing thoughts. I love being able to travel back in time through a 3-d render of my home when it was still just the skeleton. There needs to be better ways to achieve archiving of the model - given its value in terms of cost to acquire and security. While I didn't appreciate it at the time, using the model for quick virtual measurements of areas within rooms has also been handy when looking at furniture and rugs. If I forgot to measure before going, I can pull it up on my laptop and get a quick ballpark measure within the house. I'm thinking of doing another scan after I'm fully settled in ... to easily capture and annotate my stuff for insurance purposes.

        [0] https://virtualspace.global/

        [1] https://matterport.com/

        [2] https://github.com/rebane2001/matterport-dl

        • By zbrozek 2023-12-160:01

          Thank you so much for writing this up!

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