It's been 8 months since the initial reviews, so I would love to know if anyone has managed to really become productive and comfortable working hours a day on the Apple Vision Pro.
Comments
By virgildotcodes 2024-10-062:188 reply I feel like I would have been the ideal customer for it. I travel a lot and I'm a developer deep in the Apple ecosystem who is constantly wishing he had more screen real estate while bouncing between hotels and Airbnbs every few weeks.
I bought it and tried it for two weeks and ended up returning it. It's really cool, but even aside from the issues with 1.0 like not being able to just pull up individual app windows from my mac or multiple desktops -- it's just too impractical, it takes too much effort to get into this thing.
A phone, a tablet, a laptop, you can pick up, immediately use, put down, interact with the world around you, pick up again, zero friction, it's not restrictive, it's not an item of clothing, it doesn't take over your whole world and sensory system and thus alienate you from everyone and everything around you.
Not only is it that whole extra thing, but it needs to be plugged into a special battery pack, so you have another usb cable dangling onto this bulky pack which is daisy chained to your laptop or another charging port unless you want it to die in 2 hours. So you pull out your laptop, plug it into a charger, pull out your headset, plug it into its battery pack, plug that battery pack into your laptop, put on the headset, untangle yourself from the wires and figure out where to set the battery pack to be out of the way...
It's just so much faffing around. Plus it's fucking huge and takes up the majority of my backpack and I like to travel with a single carry on backpack.
A pair of Raybans with a usb c cable sticking out, maybe I could see that being legitimately usable without having to make a giant effort just to use it. It seems like a few companies are getting close to that, but I have yet to try those alternatives.
This is the best review I have ever read on the Apple Vision Pro. Also, we should probably stop lying to ourselves, and finally admit what we have known in hour hearts for a little while now: Apple is not anymore what it used to be. Reading this makes it clear…
Apple Vision Pro is the modern equivalent of John Sculley’s Apple Newton
My take away from the GP was that it's not so much as an issue with Apple'version of VR but about the state of the technology itself. The hardware today is too bulky and difficult to use as a daily driver.
May be Google was on to something with their glasses and may be some version of electrochromic glass goggles that also works as a display is the answer.
I agree that Apple is not what it used to be. They normally don't go for still evolving tech and swoop in with a better product(and experience) only after the product's viability is established.
By ragazzina 2024-10-0712:32 > not so much as an issue with Apple'version of VR [...] The hardware today is too bulky
Apple knew the hardware would be too bulky and went forward anyway.
Not sure this is really an Apple thing. Basically all the tech companies have released some VR or AR product that either flopped, or was downgraded to a niche industry product.
Remember just a few years ago when Meta was trying to convince us that the metaverse was the future.
Part of Apple's strength is getting into the market at the right time when technology is ready and offering a streamlined, just works experience. Apple Vision Pro is nothing like that and that's why the previous commenter said it's not the usual Apple...
By Herokladaikum 2024-10-078:00 [dead]
Meta didn't stop with that though?
Just a few weeks ago they released new products that actually have a much bigger potential then the Vision Pro for the usecases virgildotcode imagined. I.e. Orion AR. As a person that only knows about it from the presentation/demos it kinda sounded like a crossover of VR headset and Google Glasses
https://about.fb.com/news/2024/09/introducing-orion-our-firs...
Though I sincerely doubt it will succeed at a wider audience either, even if it's mass market appeal is way higher.
The tech just isn't there yet - we'd need 4-8+k displays per eye with batteries that need to last at least 10 hours for this to become really viable (even if we could probably compromise batteries with a usb-c connection to the laptop for this particular usecase)
orion is not _released_ though. it is 'this is what we are working on'.
By ffsm8 2024-10-0612:11 True, I really should've said announced.
Nonetheless, that should strengthen my point - as my comment was a rebuttal Gogachads nonchalant past tense wrt Metas ongoing investment into the metaverse. Metas main goal is still exactly that, ever since their pivot
By Herokladaikum 2024-10-078:17 [dead]
By seanmcdirmid 2024-10-0714:29 You can pry my oculus quest 2 from my cold dead hands. But yes, the meta verse isn’t happening. However, they just released a new Eminem beat saber song that is crazy addictive.
Very much agreed. Here is the pair of Raybans with a USB-C cable sticking out: https://www.viture.com/store?pid=9412104487193
It works with phones, too, which is cool!
I tried a pair of those and returned them because the whole screen flying around was really disorienting.
By zmmmmm 2024-10-063:54 The latest ones do have solutions for that (head locked vs space locked displays). This also was one of my requirements, but now I'm actively considering them. The main thing holding me back now is that the tech is improving so rapidly that picking a time to buy in is hard.
By virgildotcodes 2024-10-062:54 The product may be awesome but the website seems to be designed like a dropshipping site.
By Gigachad 2024-10-063:47 Why do the glasses look photoshopped on to the models? Surely it wouldn’t have been that hard to take a photo of someone actually wearing them.
By tippytippytango 2024-10-064:32 I tried these with much excitement. Unfortunately they give me immediate eye strain and headaches. The optics need a tremendous amount of work. 1080p is also not enough. But some people love them. It’s a product you just have to try and see if it works for you and return if they don’t.
I don’t understand why they didn’t make this a gaming device. All this hassle would be worth it to play immersive shooter games or VR chat with full hand and face tracking.
No one is going to go through all that to open up Apple notes and YouTube when your phone and MacBook does exactly the same thing.
By benoau 2024-10-064:59 The gaming industry wants to bring their existing marketplaces and platforms and even when that's not explicitly prohibited Apple wants 30% of their gross revenue and requires each game implement their in-app purchases to collect it, so they are at an impasse.
By Herokladaikum 2024-10-078:22 [dead]
By zmmmmm 2024-10-063:52 > it doesn't take over your whole world and sensory system and thus alienate you from everyone and everything around you.
You sound like you are fundamentally unsuited to the device. You move around a lot and don't like being isolated. I work in my Quest 3 primarily because it isolates me and takes over my whole sensory system. I love going to work on beaches, mountain tops, or co-working with friends or colleagues virtually. You sound like you want literally the opposite of all that.
By al_borland 2024-10-063:29 >Plus it's fucking huge and takes up the majority of my backpack and I like to travel with a single carry on backpack.
I'm the same way. When I saw the reviews and the travel case, it seemed completely impractical for anyone who doesn't check luggage, on top of bringing a carry on and personal item.
I also prefer to look like a waste of time for any would-be thief of pickpocket. It seemed like a Vision Pro would put a target on my back that I didn't want.
By underlogic 2024-10-063:015 reply What's up with Raybans? They make the cheapest looking vanilla generic glasses I've ever seen, put a tacky logo on the lens and sell for a fortune. Why does anyone buy them?
By bear141 2024-10-063:24 Ray-ban along with almost every other glasses and sunglasses brand, and also almost all retailers of glasses are all owned by a megacorp called Luxxotica. The prices are all completely arbitrary and fixed.
Beyond this basically all prices for every consumer item are completely arbitrary. They almost never reflect real value and almost always are priced based on what people are willing to pay. Act accordingly.
They’re vanilla now because everyone copied their designs decades ago. They’re the original.
Doesn’t mean they’re worth the cost, but now you know.
By underlogic 2024-10-0614:43 I can't imagine anyone going to a whiteboard back in the day to make a pair of sunglasses and walk away with any lesser of a design than Raybans. Give human ingenuity at least some credit. you can tie your shoes you can out design Raybans
I think the same thing about business suits (not sure what the proper name for them is, the thing that normal CEOs and lawyers wear, with the necktie and everything). They look super hot and uncomfortable and I wore one to a wedding once and then swore them off for life. Ridiculous items. But people pay thousands for them, apparently.
Powerful apes signal status with fancy fibers, I guess.
Suits can be very comfortable to wear, even with neckties and dress shoes. The first monkeys probably though shirts were hot, stuffy and uncomfortable too. They are not ridiculous items.
Really? I want to be able to flexibly move my arms and legs into all kinds of directions, I want to sit down on grass or generally on the ground, stretch my legs out, sit cross-legged, crash on couches, snuggle into various types of chairs, cuddle with people, play with kids on random/unplanned occasions, etc. Suits restrict a lot of movement or would look like bags, compared to eg stretch jeans and a tshirt and hoodie. I often use hoodies as makeshift pillows or seat cushion (and offer that to others), not so sure how that would go for a suit jacket. And I can squeeze them into a backpack when warm, or throw into a random corner or on the floor. It’s also easy to lend them to other people when they are cold, where jackets really only fit people of the exact same stature. All that and more means „comfortable to wear (and use)“ for me.
You can do all of that with a properly tailored suit.
If it’s expensive you probably don’t want to roll around in the dust, but if you look at images of workers from hundreds of years ago they were essentially wearing suits (trousers, shirt, jacket, hat) most of the time, even for manual labor
Very formal these days though
By solardev 2024-10-0623:26 Indeed, it seems like fighting in a suit is a common trope in Hollywood...
Blood and Bone: https://youtu.be/sFJ4R7rccn8?si=2hN9Lxz_pcXLlaJ-&t=121
Bond: https://youtu.be/KokmzxszDow?si=8TQko8lEpU6VQ48R&t=107
Though of course, some actors prefer to take them off before a fight :)
Transporter: https://youtu.be/farceMd4Zlg?si=n9p71hQbxiJvKP9Q&t=88
Guess it's different when you're a rich star who can afford tailored suits...
By solardev 2024-10-0619:31 Guess this ape will have to disagree with ya. I'll never wear one of those again.
By virgildotcodes 2024-10-063:18 I want people to think that I fly my biplane while wearing a furry leather bomber jacket on the weekends.
By appendix-rock 2024-10-063:172 reply I’m genuinely not sure how to say this without a little bit of snark, but do you…know how fashion works?
Sunglasses do seem to be taking the piss more than other items. An expensive pair of leather shoes can easily be justified by the cost of the materials, manual labor, build quality, and extended lifespan over cheaper options.
While sunglasses seem to be a bit of injection moulded plastic with some lenses for a 20x markup.
It’s mainly because of the Luxxotica monopoly.
If course, there are a lot of sunglasses that are not name brands and those a much cheaper.
By Gigachad 2024-10-065:13 For most clothing items, there are the luxury name brands, but then there are also affordable options like Uniqlo which sell basically the same thing for a very reasonable price.
For sunglasses, at least in Australia, you get the sunglasses stores that have $200-$400 nice looking sunglasses, and then $30 speed dealer sunnies at the servo. There's nothing in between and no one cloning the name brand styles for cheap.
By SkyPuncher 2024-10-0612:37 It can’t just be from the Luxxotica monopoly. These things are not hard or expensive to manufacture.
For some reason, people think Raybans are an amazing brand.
By solardev 2024-10-0615:19 Lol, this is HN after all. Our fashion icons are Zucky with a hoodie (backend) or Jobs with a black turtleneck (frontend).
Raybans? How do you see the screen with those plastic goggles on?
I'm waiting for the Freeza Scouter model (Dragon ball Z). One full imersed eye and ear experience. That's the perfect ergonomics.
By brailsafe 2024-10-063:48 All we really need is the ability to check someone's power level anyway, what the hell else would convince me to put digital glasses on for!?
The visual quality of the Apple Vision Pro is extremely far ahead of any other headset. I generally don't like Apple products and I think they made plenty of mistakes with Vision Pro, but the visual quality is exceptional for our time.
I wouldn't advise anyone to buy it, but I would strongly encourage everyone to try it out in an Apple Store.
Wish they'd just release a set of basic wired glasses with those displays, for tethered usage with a Mac. I don't need the AR/VR crap, a battery pack, etc., but I'd be very happy with a set of high-res glasses that act as external monitors.
Nice idea. I would probably almost go for that.
I wonder how much they could cut from it to make the device you're imagining more appealing from a cost & weight perspective...
1. Front-facing display
2. Battery
3. LIDAR (might need some other tracking to replace it, unless the cameras are enough?)
4. Eye-tracking
5. Wireless module
6. Less processing power
7. No SSD
I think it would lose some "wow" factor in the process, but probably be a much more pragmatic device for everyday usage.
By solardev 2024-10-0716:35 > I think it would lose some "wow" factor in the process, but probably be a much more pragmatic device for everyday usage.
Yeah, exactly. I'm really hoping Apple tries that instead after the failure of the Vision Pro. It's the opposite paradigm: Not "complete computing device in a headset", but rather "just an eye-worn display and nothing else". It doesn't even need any fancy tracking, just basic gyro stabilization so the windows don't shake, like the VR mode on phones already have (e.g. for Google Cardboard). They don't even need to be aligned to anything in the real world.
Other companies are making glasses like that, but the displays aren't very good – IMO that's the limiting factor.
I've tried many AR/VR devices over the past decades and it's just not a use case I can see most people ever wanting, myself included. But "portable private monitor with a giant canvas" is an itch that still hasn't been scratched :( It's less sexy in some ways, but it's also something I'd probably use every day.
Yes, I do. It’s an amazing monitor and combination iPad. It’s very different than what is easy to describe - partially because it defies convention in so many ways - but I use it with my Mac and then will have mail and chat and music floating on the sides.
Btw I said iPad. Apple says it’s a computer. Falls short in some key ways, but not unfixable
It is heavy but I don’t mind it. I can see how that might be a deal breaker.
Btw I honestly think that if apple wants to market this thing as a computer, they need to include a keyboard and trackpad. It adds so much to the utility factor that it’s basically indispensable for me. That it works well without one is testament to apples amazing engineering, but they really should be packing those in imho
These things are going to be killer productivity devices if
- price down. obviously.
- lower weight, better battery
- combo keyboard and mouse accessory offered that fits into a carrying case
- able to host Mac apps, or a Mac vm, or something similar. Let me run vs code, IntelliJ, and a terminal with a local container with my build tools. Or blender. Or photoshop. Etc etc etc
Btw protip, tea tastes fine through a metal straw
By rgarrett88 2024-10-062:132 reply I'm of the opinion that Apple will never natively allow unmanaged code outside macOS due to app store revenue. I mean if the AVP fails it would be a huge write down but if it wins and allows people to circumvent the Apple tax that's still a fail for the company.
By wkat4242 2024-10-067:26 I know. This is the real reason, not the purported "security issues". Apple just wants to sell their hugely expensive cake and eat it. The only reason that macOS is not locked down is historical. Because it's always been open and people would be screaming if they took it away.
It's a shame as a user. I paid for the device, I should decide what happens on it. Apple doesn't have an innate right to store revenue.
By miki123211 2024-10-062:363 reply You could still do enforcement through legal rather than technical means, though.
Disallow installing apps from outside the App Store, provide no system UI to do so. Prohibit apps from being app stores themselves or running code that didn't pass app review, with exceptions for dev tools etc. Make apps able to escape the sandbox, at least in some ways.
Even if an app somehow sneaks past app review and gives users unfettered access to their devices, it can't ever get too many users. If it's unpopular, it's not a concern to Apple, if it becomes popular, Apple will know about it and can levy very heavy contractual fines on the dev.
It's worth mentioning none of these concerns affected Android / Google Play, even though it's fairly easy to sideload and even install custom app stores there.
The only phones that come with alternative stores are from Chinese manufacturers, which isn't going to be an issue for Apple as the operating system isn't open source.
Didn’t Samsung introduce their own App Store?
it ships both app stores on every android phone. In my experience, people only use the Samsung store by accident
By benoau 2024-10-064:30 Your ideas are explicitly illegal in the EU and, if the law ever passes, would be illegal in the US too. Frankly I think we are past having to figure out ways for Apple to tax software usage in all circumstances, just wait for the law to catch up and it's all moot. In fact, just the Epic case seeks to rewrite what amounts to 70% of App Store spending: gacha games being able to link to their own billing options.
> The legislation aims to prevent Big Tech companies from "self-preferencing" their own products at the expense of competitors.[3] Under AICO, covered platforms would be forbidden from disadvantaging other companies' products or services.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Innovation_and_Choice...
By beeflet 2024-10-062:47 that still sounds like technical means
>It is heavy but I don’t mind it.
Consider trying a counter weight. Hunting supply stores sell them for nightvision goggles, and when I tried one on my friend's Valve Index it was shocking how much better it felt.
By makeitdouble 2024-10-063:01 To note, counter weight helps alleviate single pressure points when stationary or slowly moving.
It will make it significantly worse for people moving their head a lot or walking around.
That's the same issue as the Airpod Max, which are extremely well balanced but just so damn heavy, so I guess people just build neck muscles ?
Nah, it was the right call. Advertising it at nearly 2x the weight so X% of people find it more comfortable is a bad trade off.
I use mine all the time and don’t notice the weight. Perhaps because I use various types of helmets frequently. It is far far far less noticeable than a motorcycle helmet, and far less noticeable than a good full face bike helmet.
By Gigachad 2024-10-063:55 I haven’t tried the Apple vision, but from other VR products, the problem isn’t the weight on your head, it’s where it’s distributed. Having all that weight resting on your cheeks quickly becomes uncomfortable and makes the muscles on your face sore.
By steelframe 2024-10-064:30 > tea tastes fine through a metal straw
I can't help but think about this story every time I hear someone talk about metal straws.
https://www.today.com/health/health/metal-straw-punctures-th...
By givemeethekeys 2024-10-063:40 Bamboo straws work well too. But you'd still want the tea to be not too hot. Some quick searching resulted in Sipify straws.
was this a microplastics thing or a dogwhistle coded for some dark net activity? i hav eno idea
By jimrandomh 2024-10-062:141 reply I tried, and went back to laptop+monitor. In theory it would be great when on the go, but it doesn't really function without a laptop present, which makes it pretty unwieldy as you need two devices. In theory it would be good in a the back seat of a car or when walking around, except the software doesn't allow you to do that (windows are pinned to space outside the car, you can't make them follow you). When I'm at a desk, I guess it would be better than a _bad_ monitor, but I have a nice big 8k screen and it's both better looking and more comfortable.
By jimrandomh 2024-10-0616:40 It's an LG 65QNED99UPA. There are a few caveats: using a 65" display up close imposes some requirements on your window manager (you want to treat the sides more like you'd treat a secondary monitor in a multimonitor setup, rather than have windows go all the way edge to edge); and you need to make sure that every GPU, KVM, and cable can handle 8k, in an ecosystem where most don't. If you can handle those two things, it's great.
