Comments
By sipofwater 2025-04-0910:281 reply Mirror: https://archive.is/rDbgD
By joshdavham 2025-04-0915:25 [dead]
> Before traveling, back up your devices so you don’t lose anything permanently. Then delete anything you’re worried about being misinterpreted or saved by the government. That can include conversations that compromise the privacy of the people on the other end. You might delete messages about politics, contact information for political dissidents, apps that save offline copies of sensitive documents like Google Docs, even your phone’s built-in Notes app.
Mind you, this is for entering the country that considers itself the freest in the world...
By snthpy 2025-04-106:36 > Before traveling, back up your devices so you don’t lose anything permanently.
_anything_ here presumably doesn't include freedom of movement of when you find yourself in an El Salvador concentration camp.
Next up: How to replace your Real Madrid tattoo by obtaining a skin graft
By akimbostrawman 2025-04-109:32 Like most rights and laws they only apply if you are already in the country or a citizen.
They are still unreasonable searches enabled since and by the patriot act.
By timewizard 2025-04-0920:011 reply How does a country "consider itself?" I mean, I get that the propaganda mouthpieces push this message, but that's not quite the same thing.
Meanwhile there are very few countries that don't have the same type of border security that we do for foreign nationals. This advice is just as pertinent if you travel to the UK or almost any EU country.
Us Americans have been taught exceptionalism all our lives. The people consider themselves to have built and to live in the freest and generally most superlative country that ever was.
We were pretty "soft" (dislike the term) on the land borders and on immigration. Fairly easy to enter, to claim asylum, to live and work on different sides, and so on.
I don't have an answer for the question of if we should be making our border security as intense as it can be elsewhere, but I don't love the story of just doing as other countries do. We're exceptional, right?
I don't think this is a great comment I'm writing, but it's how I feel about things right now.
By po26511 2025-04-178:23 > We're exceptional, right?
Yup, and that pushes a nationalistic agenda even if not intentional. We're exceptional, so everyone else is mediocre and such border policies don't seem that strange? IMO a historical example of where being exceptional led us is the Trail of Tears.
Moving in the direction away from exceptionalism and more towards doing as other countries do is a simpler story toward reaching cooperation / peace than the alternative. Since if you don't, then you have to force your ideals on others, or every conversation just ends with "but we're exceptional and you aren't".
By timewizard 2025-04-0921:58 > have been taught
As I said, and not to be flip, but "propaganda mouthpieces." The odd part about "social media" is that it actually instills a sense of reward in people when they uncritically repeat what they've been told like a Manchurian candidate. While at the same time being an outlet for their frustrations with the outcome of these same policies and ideals.
> live in the freest and generally most superlative country
Since the 1950s the government has been opening and reading peoples mail. We had the Church Committee and the House Select Committee on Assassinations. In this era people did not make the same mistake. This notion of the "freest" country honestly started after 2001. "They hate us because of our freedom," was a useful excuse to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.
> We were pretty "soft" (dislike the term) on the land borders and on immigration.
That depends on your perspective. The cold war certainly had an impact on some citizens of the world more than others. The 2001 trade center attack just moved the goalposts. Here we are moving them again.
> but it's how I feel about things right now.
That's the most valuable thing you could possibly do. Thank you.
> We were pretty "soft" (dislike the term) on the land borders and on immigration
That's absolutely not the impression US gives to the people outside. The visa system is soft only on one specific demographic it deems worthy (educated, wealthy, commonwealth citizen), and treats everyone else with contempt at best.
Getting a visa requires extensive background checks, and an in-person interview in a part of a consulate built like a prison. The green card lottery keeps people on uncertain ground for decades, during which they are second-class citizens and can have their entire life uprooted at any moment.
Claiming asylum via safe modes of transport has been made technically impossible (anyone suspected of seeking asylum won't be sold any tickets, won't be let through any security), and deadly dangerous and intentionally cruel towards everyone desperate enough to try anyway.
Unfortunately, many countries are like that, and the USA is not better than average even on the good side.
By atonse 2025-04-101:14 How did you manage to somehow twist the green card lottery into something so harmful sounding? It undermines your other points.
Nobody is forcing people to join the lottery. Nobody is in “limbo” against their will. it’s something that has a huge upside if you win, and little downside (apart from the Application fees).
Which country doesn’t do some kind of background check or information gathering when letting you in (except for tourism of course).
It’s extremely onerous to get a tourist visa to the EU if you’re an Indian citizen for example. Or it used to be.
They want your bank balances to make sure you aren’t going to just get on welfare.
By more_corn 2025-04-1213:59 Used to.
By breakingrules3 2025-04-0917:591 reply [flagged]
By bigyabai 2025-04-1114:31 Nope, based on fact: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-...
I’ll add a few more freedoms.
1. Can’t walk about drinking a beer.
2. Can’t carry too much cash or it’s at risk of being confiscated.
3. Criminalization of walking. https://illinoislawreview.org/print/vol-2017-no-3/the-crimin...
4. Pretty much have to own a car in most places.
5. Thousands of polling stations closed since the Voting Rights Act was gutted.
6. Federal politics held hostage by low population states. It’s insane that North Dakota has slightly less federal power than Texas.
7. Not even the House of Representatives has proportional representation.
> 4. Pretty much have to own a car in most places.
Hey, electric scooters are not the worst ever (although I got hit by a truck while riding one and decided to get a car just because I don't like getting hit by trucks)
By devilbunny 2025-04-0919:311 reply They aren't, but I live in a hot, humid climate where it often rains. So a scooter is not the best there. And then my workplace is right on a highway - I can take lower-speed roads to get there, but even the slowest path involves 35 MPH roads (~55 km/h), and it's longer.
By LargoLasskhyfv 2025-04-0922:091 reply Goretex...
By devilbunny 2025-04-1012:381 reply Yeah, it’s great, but what does that have to do with my comment?
By LargoLasskhyfv 2025-04-114:02 To be worn, when it rains. Even when not. There are shoes, socks, trousers, shirts, shorts, slips, sweaters, jackets, even suits made out of that, or functionally equivalent stuff. Another option would be something very light to pull over, which you carry with you at all times, crumpled or folded into a volume of maybe two matchboxes, single- or multi-use. Much cheaper than than the goretchy parts, btw.
By LargoLasskhyfv 2025-04-0922:071 reply Need faster e-scooter!
45 MPH is not the slowest ever, and actually the issue is that I was in the bike lane attempting to pass a truck and then they suddenly turned without using their signal or checking their mirror.
So actually the lesson apparently was don't attempt to pass vehicles on a scooter, more speed is bad.
By LargoLasskhyfv 2025-04-114:05 Then wear a helmet, with a bright flashing blue light on top :)
By fragmede 2025-04-0918:46 free to build whatever I want on my land, as long as it follows all the rules in this really big rule book
Regarding #2 through #7: they are all true and important. I'm aware of different efforts over the years to address some of them, but they are all definitely active problems.
Regarding #1-- is it possible you have a drinking problem?
> Regarding #1-- is it possible you have a drinking problem?
You don't have to be an alcoholic (I don't even drink) to agree that with OP that #1 is an arbitrary reduction of freedom. Especially when walking around with a gun is totally fine. Which one has a larger potential of killing somebody?
(And before you make some other ridiculous insinuation, we're talking here about walking, not driving.)
By LargoLasskhyfv 2025-04-0922:11 Walking around with a gun while being 'under the influence' is bad!1!!
By redczar 2025-04-0919:01 It’s possible I’m an alcoholic but equally possible I’m so used to puritanical rules that I assume one is an alcoholic because they wish to imbibe in a park on a nice day.
you buy a coca cola and walk 50 feet from one venue to the next and nobody bats an eye, but you do that with a twisted tea and suddenly people are asking you if you suffer from alcoholism
By hackable_sand 2025-04-0923:08 Or cigarettes/weed, for instance.
The OP was talking the "leader of the free world"
You are talking about America
That's two very different things
Leader of the free world almost always refers to the U.S. President or the U.S. itself depending on context.
That businesses are allowed to surprise you with unexpected fees is a negative thing. How can you interpret it otherwise?
It’s just kind of silly to say “we have a tipping culture” in the same argument as “we just illegally deported a guy to El Salvador”
By redserk 2025-04-1012:57 Come for the menial and absurd, stay for the flagrant anti-constitutional (in spirit) issues.
By gruntbuggly 2025-04-0919:282 reply Don't you just go out to eat knowing the price is going to be 20% higher after tip? I can understand the desire for predictability, but menu prices are artificially low as they don't account for labor. If tipping were 'abolished' food service prices would have to rise 10-20% across the board to compensate.
By flowerthoughts 2025-04-0918:001 reply Service charge is a weird thing. Normally, I'd expect a volume discount if I create bigger business for someone. Restaurants decided that's not how it works.
If someone with experience could explain why 1x6 people should be charged a higher price than 6x1 people, I am curious.
By gruntbuggly 2025-04-0919:25 Big tables are way more work for back of house as they bottleneck the kitchen with a bunch of simultaneous tickets. A large table demands more attention, but then you also end up with a larger bill on which customers are then less to add a tip. They can also decrease margin on shared plates.
By stackedinserter 2025-04-0921:151 reply As someone from totalitarian regime, I can say you clearly don't appreciate freedoms that you have.
By redserk 2025-04-0921:55 There is not a binary choice between America or a totalitarian regime.
As an American, I recognize there are systems that can make us less free and I want to call them out in hopes that we will eventually address these issues so we have a more free society.
Various countries have laws to prevent at least some subset of the issues I’ve raised.
By benlivengood 2025-04-0917:171 reply By wat10000 2025-04-0917:18 We get to choose between allowing government agents to go through our files or losing our expensive hardware.
This is a lot better than the choice between allowing them to go through our files or not entering the country, but it's still pretty gross.
dizhn is free, for example, to lick as many boots as he desires. No one can take that away.
By dizhn 2025-04-1010:08 How do you figure that?
By MPSFounder 2025-04-0917:15 Poor reply. I want America to be free for anyone who is on our soil. Not just for me and those lucky enough to have been born here, and not just for the political aristocracy and their Israeli darlings. Some Americans welcome a master it seems, when it speaks Hebrew
Hmmm. And yet this is normal for entering just about every other country.
The people being deported are those calling for genocide. Good riddance. You do not have a right to come to this country to organize a foreign country's wars.
By lern_too_spel 2025-04-104:441 reply We know that there are also Israelis calling for the genocide of Palestinians. None are being deported. I'd be willing to believe that some of the students being deported have called for genocide, but the government must produce evidence. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/court-tells-government...
"Locking down" is almost always a bad approach when it comes to border crossings. You have very little rights at the border, so keeping your phone locked and refusing to divulge the 20 characters password isn't really an option. Even without the threat of detaining you, they can refuse entry (if you're not a citizen/permanent resident), or seize your $1000 phone/laptop. Far better to wipe your phone and restore from backup after you've crossed the border. The article does make a good point that you should seed your wiped phone with signs of activity so it doesn't look freshly wiped.
I used to do this but these days I’m petrified of the restore being imperfect in some way.
I use the he.net app for TOTP. Will I get those back in working order?
I have a billion photos I want to keep — were they properly backed up to iCloud?
My mail settings are a pita to recreate. Will those come back?
Are passwords stored in the Secure Enclave? Could I lose those?
When I sign back into iCloud am I going to be able to use a username and password, or is it going to require me to approve the login on my laptop — which I left at home — as a second factor?
WhatsApp, Signal — how much is tied to my physical phone and/or any key material unique to the OS — material that is irretrievably lost, by design, when it is wiped.
I think really the long term answer is to stop using an opaque, closed source iPhone. Maybe some time in the next five years one will emerge that competes with Apple’s quality? Until then, every border crossing is going to risk handing over a huge part of my life to ICE because I can’t risk losing anything in a backup/restore hysteresis loop.
Post.: Another future direction would be for iOS and apps to recognise this as a common use case and provide guarantees about what is and what isn’t restorable after a wipe.
There’s also a conflict here between wiping data so that it is irretrievable and wiping data to later retrieve it. If you wipe with the intent to retrieve I can believe that immigration will just detain you until you restore your phone so that it can be searched.
By IncandescentGas 2025-04-0916:023 reply Your phone could become damaged and inoperable every day. From dropping it in the toilet, being stolen, a house fire, etc. If you're "petrified" of losing your data, it's worth the work to ensure your data backup procedures are adequate.
You’re right, but also I know I have enough backed up to survive a catastrophe. What I don’t want to do is to test my backup in a non catastrophe situation and invalidate all my TOTP, WhatsApp history, mail settings etc. just because I wanted to test disaster recovery.
It feels like buying a fire safe (phone and app backups) without any kind of understanding if it works then burning your house down to see if it works. I want a fire safe (phone and app backups) that is up-front with guarantees it works!
I should have said this by the way: for a long time I did wipe my phone when crossing borders, learning the hard way all the little details that don’t quite work properly when doing a restore from backups.
By Izikiel43 2025-04-0919:33 > What I don’t want to do is to test my backup in a non catastrophe situation
Isn't that actually one of the things you want to do to validate the backup process?
Better to figure out in a non disaster scenario where you have alternatives.
Analogies only go so far. Going to the store, buying gasoline and rags and a lighter and then committing arson and burning my house down is maybe a little bit different from sitting down for a few hours with my laptop connected to my phone.
By IncandescentGas 2025-04-0919:28 Right! Backup planning is not black magic. And neither is testing icloud backups.
It's quite easy to restore an icloud backup to a different phone or even ipad for testing purposes, if one were reliant on icloud to hold their data.
I've spent the last month and a half building an encyrpted backup system I could sleep peacefully with, independent of tech giants that secretly compromise you. I'm almost there but it's not easy for a lot of reasons you mention and more.
Ultimately it's not enough for individuals to spend this effort for themselves. We need a self-managed option that is nearly as turnkey as iCloud. A distro with it built from the outset.
Is it even possible to test a backup of a typical phone without first wiping the phone?
It's not like my backup of my ~/Photos directory where I can copy to a USB and md5sum the files on a separate computer and check the match.
By IncandescentGas 2025-04-0919:30 Yes. You can restore your icloud backup to another target iphone without wiping the source iphone, as long as the target iphone has enough storage capacity.
By mystifyingpoi 2025-04-0916:26 IMO if you are so concerned about it, then just buy a second phone, and leave the "first" phone at a family member, or at least someone that you trust. If something fails to restore, just call them to read you the OTP code or whatever.
If you're worried about your backup data being correct, you don't have a backup.
By batch12 2025-04-0916:43 This is true. A backup that can't be restored is worthless.
By LWIRVoltage 2025-04-0920:42 I am in a similar pickle.
This is an issue I face- I have a collection of thermal cameras that use apps to control them- after every install onto a phone, they then reach out t oa server to authenticate.
Here's the issue- though I have a few older phones- these apps are 32 bit ones, so no modern phone after Android 13 will run them. And they are all now not on the app store anymore,as they all came out about around 2016. i did use a APK extractor to pull the APKs to store them - but the native backup functionality wouldn't capture that authorization in the future, I might rob myself of my ability to use some extremely expensive, and long-term invested capable hardware, by backing up and restoring-
I suspect a full image would solve this problem, but I don't think one can do that outside of things like TWRP- but that requires unlocking the bootloader, and if you do that it wipes your device- AND is more vulnerable to Custom's usage of Cellebrite and etc, to my undertanding.
I don't have this issue with laptops ,as I can fully image them and wipe and restore ahavend have a perfect replica/ no issues. But my thermal cameras do not run off of PC and th eform factor wouldn't work if they did
By jjav 2025-04-107:46 > I’m petrified of the restore being imperfect in some way.
A lot of this is from anchoring important things to your phone. I practice, and strong recommend, avoiding that as much as possible. Your phone should be entirely disposable. If you drop it in the ocean, would you care (other than the monetary loss)? If yes, find way to detach those things from the phone. There should be nothing important on a phone.
By shepherdjerred 2025-04-0916:02 This is like sticking your head in the sand. Okay, maybe the backup is imperfect? What’s your plan if you phone is lost, damaged, or stolen?
By squigz 2025-04-0916:18 This is why testing recovery is a critical part of any backup plan.
By wing-_-nuts 2025-04-0917:202 reply >or seize your $1000 phone/laptop.
So be it. I used to say that the reason I valued my privacy was not that I did not trust my government _today_, it was the fact that data would be available to every potential authoritarian government _tomorrow_.
Welp, today has become tomorrow, and yeah, I'd _absolutely_ rather just have my devices seized than have the contents of my phone dumped into a database that can be searched without a warrant, for the next 15 years.
Rights (like the 4th amendment) that are not exercised are not upheld. I'm sure the threat of having one's devices stolen (let's be clear, that's what this is), is enough to deter many people. For myself, my next course of action would be to contact the ACLU and sue the government for violating the 4th amendment.
Having your $1000 device stolen by the government as an acceptable outcome is something only a fatcat on HN with their cushy salary would be able to tolerate. I'm not a FAANG employee, and don't make that kind of salary. Loosing a $1k anything would not be something I could just shrug my shoulders and just turn around and immediately replace it.
Even if you do sue the gov't, it'll be at least a year before any kind of resolution that results in the return of that device. Them keeping my phone would be one thing, but if they also kept my laptop, I'd be screwed. My laptop is much more than $1k, and there's no free laptop with contract cell service I could use to replace it. Now I'd be without a means of working.
These kinds of situations make me really yearn for the days of replacing the internal hard drive of a laptop. I could swap out my daily use drive for a travel drive, which would be much less of a hassle than the options on offer for modern laptops.
My Lenovo from last year still has non-soldered NVMe drives. I would probably just install Windows on a separate partition and set it to boot to that, then install a few games and set my Chrome homepage. I bet CBP won't be mucking around with bootloader settings looking for Linux, and even so it would be pretty trivial to just remove GRUB from the EFI partition for the travel days.
By LWIRVoltage 2025-04-0920:512 reply This is something no on discusses but I've wondered heavily- GRUB can be made to not show a menu and then boot up Windows automatically, in like a second or two with no one the wiser. [There is an obnoxious welcome to grub message that pops up now but I see a public project out there that solves this very easily called GRUB shusher]
I don't know if other bootloaders outside GRUB have a silent/hidden start option, as well in a similar vein that would require you to hit a key in that first second to get the menu to appear, or else it just boots up normally
I wonder about the other approach, just going into the BIOS nad changing the order so Windows boots first, which should be doable in some setups. Lock the BIOS with a password, and you're in not bad shape. (Not sure if Secure Boot being enabled could also help here - probably couldn't hurt)
By aftbit 2025-04-1220:30 My approach would be to rename the Grub EFI image to something silly like "HP Windows Recovery", then set Windows to boot first. Someone could smash F11 then select the recovery option to make sure it was really recovery... but the average Keystone Kop at CBP would probably not figure this out. In fact, I think they would just turn the machine on, see it start to boot Windows, shrug, and turn it off again. If they image the machine, they can find that it has Linux with forensics, but I really struggle to imagine anyone caring enough to chase me down after the fact.
I am a US citizen though. The only real goal for me at CBP is to avoid secondary at all. I'm not worried at all about them coming for me after I leave the airport. If that sort of stuff starts to happen... I am screwed anyway. They can find records of everything I've said by just compelling US companies to disclose it to them.
By reassess_blind 2025-04-107:45 Any examples of the silent GRUB setup? Sounds interesting.
I left a comment about Veracrypt offering the Hidden OS feature, with two passwords - one for the dummy OS and one for the real OS. However it doesn't seem to be supported anymore on Windows 11 or modern hardware, the option is greyed out on my laptop with no explanation.
By jjav 2025-04-107:50 > Loosing a $1k anything would not be something I could just shrug my shoulders and just turn around and immediately replace it.
I'd suggest that if $1K is a big deal to lose, one should not spend such an ungodly amount on a phone.
Perfectly adequate phones can be had for $100-$200. I couldn't imagine wasting more than that on a phone.
By gruez 2025-04-0918:02 >Welp, today has become tomorrow, and yeah, I'd _absolutely_ rather just have my devices seized than have the contents of my phone dumped into a database that can be searched without a warrant, for the next 15 years.
You're totally ignoring the option of wiping your phone prior to crossing, and avoiding both fates.
>Rights (like the 4th amendment) that are not exercised are not upheld. I'm sure the threat of having one's devices stolen (let's be clear, that's what this is), is enough to deter many people. For myself, my next course of action would be to contact the ACLU and sue the government for violating the 4th amendment.
This already has been litigated, and the courts have affirmed CBP can deny entry or seize your phone. By all means, try to affect change by writing to your senator or whatever, but displays of civil disobedience is mostly pointless. ACLU won't even take on your case because it's been settled, and the chance of it being overturned is slim.
My company gives burner phones and laptops for employees and salespeople traveling to countries with agressive borders. USA is on the list, together with Israel, Iran and a few others I can't remember now.
China is not on the list. We never had any difficulty or problem in the Chinese border.
By fragmede 2025-04-0919:44 fascinating! Where are you from? I'm in the US and for employees going into China, best practice has been to issue them burner phones and laptops for the trip for decades at this point.
By rurban 2025-04-105:09 China and Turkey were previously on our list. Also Turkmenistan and a lot of African countries.
China not anymore. You can now easily travel there without visa.
Turkey is still too aggressive and risky, but at least you don't have to wait 6 hrs at their border anymore.
Oh interesting. They were on our list (US company). In fact, our official guidance suggested not bringing work hardware to China at all.
By AstralStorm 2025-04-100:26 That's mostly not due to their border security services but industrial espionage, theft and maybe special security.
By stackedinserter 2025-04-0921:171 reply What kind of business is this, if US border is danger but Chinese is not?
I've been to Shanghai multiple times. Every time the border check was quick, efficient and uneventful. Unlike JFK where it's a 2h wait almost every time wiht 'random' extra security.
By stackedinserter 2025-04-1115:51 It doesn't answer my question.
By crossroadsguy 2025-04-0914:13 And maybe remove business critical or private data from "well known" online accounts or cloud services well known to US or from US or the one they might force you to give them access to - or the account where it might be trivial for them to show you have an account and then they might demand access. I know the article says they won't ask you for cloud accounts but I mean who the hell knows (esp. in today's USA), they might as well ask you to give access to iCloud Backup/restore because as you said they have close to or exactly zero rights there.
This 100x, last time I crossed a border I shutdown my phone and because my phone was off the border guard considered that suspicious. Also apparently not using google maps is considered suspicious even if you're in an area you've lived your entire life.
I would definitely come across as suspicious to any border inspection. I have no Google apps, I have no social media apps. I have very few apps at all. I definitely qualify as someone that would be the type to wipe their phone. Also, my photos would definitely look like something someone staged to show activity, as the vast majority of my photos are of my fur babies. I don't do selfies, so that would be sus too. My browser history would also appear to them to be wiped, because I simply do not browse the web on the phone. I doubt it would be a quick conversation of me convincing them I'm really just that boring.
By AstralStorm 2025-04-100:241 reply Someone needs to implement an application that fakes these things convincingly...
By dylan604 2025-04-103:20 Then the storm troopers would just look to see if you had that app
> refusing to divulge the 20 characters password isn't really an option
> wipe your phone and restore from backup
If they can compel you to divulge the password, then they can compel you to restore from backup in front of them.
I think their point is that you have plausible deniability because they wouldn't know you have a backup.
By reassess_blind 2025-04-107:49 A dual password "Hidden OS" feature like Veracrypt offers, or at least used to offer would be best. If implemented correctly the existence of the hidden OS can't be proven, and a dummy password would log into a dummy OS. I don't think it exists for phones, but is surely a gap in the market.
By AstralStorm 2025-04-100:24 Except they might know that if it's a major provider. That's easier to learn than the password to unlock it.
By jjav 2025-04-107:52 > If they can compel you to divulge the password, then they can compel you to restore from backup in front of them.
Of course, if your backup is to a US-based cloud service, they already have full access to it.
By notatoad 2025-04-0917:10 they can't if they don't know you have a backup.
if they're really out to target you and they've got you under investigation, then maybe they know what your primary email account is and that your phone isn't signed in to it. but the advice here is for the traveller who just doesn't want to be hassled at the border by the guard who wants to flex their power.
By ryanmcbride 2025-04-0917:02 Well since the phone is wiped just don't be logged into your real account and don't have any cloud backups to backup from?
> Far better to wipe your phone and restore from backup after you've crossed the border.
It’s a mantra but it’s incorrect: You’re supposed to list your “online accounts” to the border agent in the US.
By AstralStorm 2025-04-100:28 Sure you can, don't have it on any "account". :)
Does anyone more knowledgable know if US citizen 5th amendment rights still applies at the border, i.e. I can't legally be compelled to unlock my phone at the US border? Law is not my area of expertise at all. (The article might have addressed this but it's behind a paywall.)
Thanks in advance.
The ACLU has authoritative advice [1]. The article about electronic device searches [2] explains that the government claims the right to search devices without a warrant at the border.
> U.S. citizens cannot be denied entry to the United States for refusing to provide passwords or unlocking devices. Refusal to do so might lead to delay, additional questioning, and/or officers seizing your device for further inspection. [...] If an officer searches and/or confiscates your laptop or cell phone, get a receipt for your property.
[1]: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...
[2]: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...
By dylan604 2025-04-0918:07 If your device leaves your sight for any length of time and later returned, consider it compromised. It is now to no longer be considered a friendly device. If you're paranoid enough that is
By tenacious_tuna 2025-04-0915:503 reply I am not a lawyer, though I am a US citizen.
First, it's the fourth amendment that protects against unreasonable search. Fifth amendment is protection against self-incrimination.
My understanding is that fourth amendment protections effectively do not apply at the border [1] because the border is inherently a reasonable place to search people.
In regards to being compelled to unlock your phone, CBP maintains the position [2] that in order to uphold their duties they're inherently able to compel you. Anecdotally, if you don't unlock your device, they may (a) confiscate it (and possibly apply all sorts of cracking tech to it), or (b) refuse you entry. That said, a random law firm [3] cites that you can withhold a password-based lock, but CBP can compel you to provide biometric unlocking [3].
To me, this is a case of https://xkcd.com/538/ ; you may have a legal basis to refuse, but in the current iteration of the administration I find it unlikely that it would be a positive experience if you were to stand on it. (Not that CBP is going to beat you with a pipe wrench, but if they want in your phone, they're gonna get in your phone.)
[1] https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/19-borde... [2] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-searc... [3] https://borderslawfirm.com/border-search-computers/
By perihelions 2025-04-0917:29 - "...but in the current iteration of the administration I find it unlikely that it would be a positive experience if you were to stand on it"
I.e., this warning example from this week,
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43618754 ("Lawyer for U-M protester detained at airport after spring break trip with family (freep.com)")
(US citizen, attorney, detained for 90 minutes as punishment for asserting his rights and refusing to unlock his work phone, which contained privileged attorney-client communications).
> because the border is inherently a reasonable place to search people.
IIRC there is a radius around every international airport where such warrantless searches are legal.
By dylan604 2025-04-0918:12 Your link was specifically about the borders, not necessarily about airports. This link is specific to airports. (I came across this link from your link. Just providing the direct link)
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...
By Ferret7446 2025-04-105:11 Are airports not considered borders (i.e., ports of entry)?
By BriggyDwiggs42 2025-04-0916:051 reply U got a semicolon at the end in the xkcd link
By tenacious_tuna 2025-04-0916:17 Thanks
By wat10000 2025-04-0917:22 I plan to keep my phone locked if it ever happens to me. I can buy a new phone.
It's my experience that once you get sent to secondary they have already decided to fuck you, they are just deciding which flimsy excuse they will use to do it. My totally non-legal conjecture (and livid experience) is if you are a citizen they will play mind games with you in secondary or a holding cell for hours to a day or so and then eventually reluctantly release you after muttering threats about revoking your passport and/or not letting you in.
By GenshoTikamura 2025-04-0916:412 reply Detainment for having a phone without any content in it is just pure and utter fascism.
Authoritarianism always finds a way, but it's shocking that 60 million invited it for dinner.
By akimbostrawman 2025-04-109:22 These border searched have existed since the patriot act...
By actionfromafar 2025-04-0918:121 reply They thought it would only be a TV dinner. The bad stuff wasn't supposed to happen on their side of the TV screen.
By selimthegrim 2025-04-0918:54 Brown Girl in The Ring, in other words.
