How can traditional British TV survive the US streaming giants

2025-05-145:4490315www.bbc.co.uk

Senior figures in the UK TV industry are contemplating how best to secure its future

A treated image which shows six TVs stacked up.

Just before Christmas, in a private dining room in the upmarket Charlotte Street Hotel in the heart of London's Soho, the BBC's director general gathered some of the UK's leading TV creatives and executives for lunch. As they ate, surrounded by kaleidoscopic-patterned wallpaper and giant artworks, they were also chewing over the future survival of their own industry.

As solutions were thrown around to what many see as an acute funding crisis in the age of global streaming, one of the invitees suggested, in passing, that BBC Studios (the corporation's commercial content-producing arm) could merge with Channel 4 to create a bigger, more powerful force to compete with the likes of Disney Plus, Netflix and Amazon.

As another diner knocked down the idea, I'm told that Tim Davie, the BBC's DG, asked why it was so ridiculous.

I relate that not because it has come to fruition. It hasn't. Nor even to suggest that the Director General supports the idea.

Instead the story illustrates the belief, among some within the broadcasting industry, that nothing should be off the table when it comes to contemplating how to ensure the survival of British-originated and British-focused TV as we know it.

A family watch a boxing match at home in 1950.Getty Images

With viewing habits having shifted, the industry is attempting to ensure the survival of British-originated and British-focused TV

Many of the people I spoke to for this piece didn't want to be quoted. But Sir Peter Bazalgette, the former Chairman of ITV, told me that what he termed the current "generous spread" of British broadcasters (BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5) will need some consolidation or, at the very least, more cooperation in future.

"We're in danger of having no public service broadcasting within a decade, certainly within 20 years," he says. "We don't have a strategy for their survival. It's that serious. The regulators need to start thinking about it.

"Mergers may well be part of the answer. There should be fewer companies in the future."

Lord Vaizey, who was Culture Minister under David Cameron, put it baldly. "ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 should merge.

"The UK only has room for two domestic broadcasters."

BBC director general Tim Davie speaks at the Confederation of Business Industry (CBI) annual conference at the Vox Conference Centre in Birmingham on 22 November 2022.AFP via Getty Images

Tim Davie is set to give a speech on Wednesday that lays out his vision for, among other things, embracing the digital age

Others, however, argue that distinctiveness is good for viewers. Channel 5 President Sarah Rose told me she "couldn't disagree with Ed Vaizey more" – calling it a "Doomsday prophecy".

Channel 5 is profitable, she tells me; it invests in smaller production companies and offers plurality for British audiences. By having just one commercial channel, "You're taking the funnel from three to one types of content for British audiences."

Channel 4 also rejects the suggestion of any merger. Its outgoing CEO Alex Mahon argues that, "The unique structure of competition between our publicly funded and commercially funded broadcasters" is what makes UK public service TV "so excellent".

And yet the days of turning on your TV and finding an electronic programme guide listing channels – with BBC1 and BBC2 at the top, then ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 – are disappearing. The proposed date for the dawn of a new era is 2035; the end of traditional terrestrial TV as we know it.

When the increasingly expensive contracts to provide broadcast channels and digital terrestrial services like Freeview come to an end, the UK's broadcasters are likely to pivot to offering digital-only video on demand. (However this won't happen without a campaign to ensure older people are protected, as well as rural and low-income households who may not have high quality internet access.)

But if the aerials are turned off in 2035, is this the moment TV as we know it changes forever? If it becomes a battle between online-only British streamers and their better-funded US rivals, can the Brits survive? And, crucially, what will audiences be watching?

Flash forward to switching on the television in 2035 and there will of course have been certain technological transformations – perhaps more immersive viewing experiences or some shows viewed through augmented reality glasses. What's highly likely, though, is that the communal big screen will still be a staple, (albeit probably voice-activated by then).

It's a shift that has already begun with YouTube viewers changing their viewing habits and moving to the bigger screen. In 2024, for the first time, TV sets were the most-used device for watching content on the video sharing site at home, according to recent data from Barb Audiences. In all, 41% of YouTube viewing was done on TV sets, ahead of 31% on smartphones.

With YouTube an apparently unstoppable force, in ten years' time it could well become the go-to viewing for the majority.

"We are likely to continue to see a shift in the share of viewing time and advertising revenue towards globally-scaled players and user-generated content platforms like YouTube and TikTok," all within the next five years, according to Kate Scott-Dawkins, Global President for Business Intelligence at media investment company Group M.

There'll also likely be Netflix, Disney, Apple, Amazon. In other words, the global players, based in the US, many of which also have other revenue streams (whether parks, computer hardware or a vast shopping platform).

A general view of the front of BBC Broadcasting House on 10 July 2023.Getty Images

The BBC has lost income in real terms over the last 10 years through licence fee decline

Kate Scott-Dawkins tells me the UK broadcasters are facing what could be an "existential" battle against US-based media companies with "wildly different business models".

The shift to streaming TV has, she says, "enabled large globally-scaled players to get even bigger and pour money into content that they can put in front of worldwide audiences".

The "big players with big pockets" already pay for a bespoke button on certain remote controls, or their own content tile front and centre on the homepage on smart TVs.

Ms Scott-Dawkins believes that in the future it will be "a position of strength" to own the operating systems themselves, as well as the media that people are watching on them. Examples include Apple showing its films and television series on Apple TVs and iPhones, or Amazon showing its own productions via its Fire devices, or Google through its own computers and phones.

Part of the problem is that the UK terrestrial channels can't compete financially with the streamers. Netflix, for example, is valued at $472bn (£356bn).

The BBC has lost 30% of its income – or £1bn a year – in real terms since 2010, as the licence fee has become worth less. ITV's share price hasn't yet recovered since the advertising downturn in 2022, despite its vast production arm, ITV Studios, boosting its earnings before tax to £299m.

Meanwhile, Channel 4's recorded a deficit of £52m for 2023. Alex Mahon told Parliament last month, "We will pretty much break even in the year".

Nick Bateman, Jade Goody, Peter Bazalgette, Craig Phillips, Nadia Almada and Marco Sabba.Getty Images

Sir Peter Bazalgette (seen here at the back with Big Brother contestants in 2005), is calling on regulators to make a strategy to secure the future of the industry

Some TV insiders think the solution will be one gateway or app for all public service content: one place to find all shows from BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and 5.

Alex Mahon recently told a newspaper that there needs to be "more collaboration" between the UK broadcasters – a way of "making sure we're not duplicating the same technology".

ITV has spent hundreds of millions to create ITVX, its streaming platform for the Netflix-age. Channel 4 took a pioneering approach to its own digital transformation, launching 4oD back in 2006; the first broadcaster in the world to offer television content on-demand.

But while its current £1bn a year revenue enables it to compete as a significant content creator, this may not be enough to sustain a modern distribution platform with all the associated investment costs into the long term, according to some insiders.

Lord Hall, the former BBC Director General, is among those arguing that it's not sustainable for individual broadcasters to continue going it alone. "The notion that everyone has their own portals when you are competing against the huge streamers is not going to survive into the future," he says.

Could the solution be for BBC iPlayer, which has been built with public money, to become the portal for the other British public service media content, too? It would be a single place where viewers could find ITV's The Chase, Channel 4's The Great British Bake Off and Channel 5 News, alongside BBC's The Traitors. This was one idea suggested to me by multiple TV insiders. "One big streamer under iPlayer", as one TV executive described it to me, "a modern public service streaming service".

Part of their argument is that it's the fastest growing streaming service in the UK – and the only existing platform of plausible scale to compete.

With political support and the right deal, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 could potentially get behind sharing tech (after all, the streaming service Freely, which launched last year, already hosts their content with the BBC's and others).

But the idea of branding this all under the BBC iPlayer is – unsurprisingly – not something that commercial broadcasters would likely entertain, according to conversations I've had.

Ed Byrne, Geri Halliwell and John Simpson take on baking tasks for the Comic Relief special episode of the Great British Bake Off in 2016.Comic Relief via Getty Images

Some have suggested that shows like Channel 4's Great British Bake Off could one day be made available on BBC iPlayer

Lord Hall believes, "It could be branded differently... It would be a very good step."

He says: "The public would have to get used to the fact that BBC material would be free of advertising, and other parts of the platform would have adverts."

If the idea of a shared streaming service sounds familiar, that's because it was proposed years ago. Project Kangaroo was a plan by BBC Worldwide, ITV and Channel 4 for a UK video-on-demand joint venture. Think an early rival to Netflix.

But the UK's Competition Commission blocked the project in 2009 because of concerns it could harm competition in the emerging VoD market.

Other regulators across Europe have also blocked mergers: In France, the TFI and M6 channels were prevented from merging. Two of the largest TV and radio broadcasters in the Netherlands, which would have combined eight national TV channels and four national radio stations, were also stopped for competition reasons.

Any form of merger between different public service broadcasters would be subject to the same scrutiny. It's perhaps why Sir Peter Bazalgette is calling on UK politicians and regulators to focus on creating a strategy – or risk the end of British TV as we know it.

The BBC remains the most watched of the traditional broadcasters. Today, people in the UK spend more time watching traditional broadcasters than they do streaming services. Figures show 87% of people age four and above watch the traditional broadcasters each month and they spend an average of 137 minutes a day doing so. By comparison, 78% of people watch a streaming service and they spend only 40 minutes a day doing so.

If this does shift and the pattern reverses, TV producers and executives may be worried. But does it really matter to audiences?

Netflix is already making the types of shows that may have previously been made by the likes of the BBC (Adolescence, Toxic Town and Baby Reindeer are all very British stories made by the streamer). So what is the problem? (Aside from the obvious point that you need a subscription to watch Netflix.)

An advertising poster for the Netflix drama Adolescence, London, March 2025.Getty Images

Netflix's hit show, Adolescence, sparked international conversations about male rage and misogynistic influences online

Ms Rose argues that the picture is "much more complex". Creatives involved in those shows often cut their teeth in public service TV, she says – one of benefits of the traditional broadcasters is, she believes, that it is a pipeline of talent.

Sir Peter Bazalgette argues that they're needed more than ever in our AI age to serve as "a gold standard of trusted news for our democracy, amid the online Tower of Babel."

He also argues for programmes that reflect "our shared values and national conversation". Would a US-based streamer have chosen to make Mr Bates v the Post Office (ITV), for example, or 'Wolf Hall' (BBC) or 'It's A Sin' (Channel 4) – stories that are uniquely British and reflect who we are?

Backing producers to take risks is, says Lord Hall, "exactly what the BBC should be doing – but of course [it] has been doing less because the licence fee has been consistently cut".

Ultimately, the American streamers are here to stay; they're spending billions and their UK operations are often led by British executives who are supportive of Britain's public service broadcasting scene.

I have also picked up a sense from those inside Netflix that the company is often used as a battering ram to persuade the government that the UK's traditional broadcasters need more protections.

Some have also been critical of the BBC for, as they see it, wanting everything on its own terms: "'We want you to give us your money for co-productions, but the BBC will make all the creative decisions'," is how one insider put it to me, unfairly or not.

In 2018, Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos was invited to the BBC's New Broadcasting House in London. Invitees recall that he talked warmly about how influential the BBC's iPlayer had been to the success of Netflix, describing how impressed he had been by a piece of kit that had got British viewers used to getting their video on demand.

With more than 17 million Brits now subscribed to Netflix, there is a certain irony to that.

Today, as the BBC's Director General Tim Davie starts to position the BBC ahead of the renewal of the corporation's charter after 2027, the TV landscape is changing fast. And the challenges are clear.

Lord Hall tells me: "Our lives will be enriched by having not only what the streamers can offer, but also what the public service broadcasters can bring. It's unthinkable not to build on what the BBC and others can deliver".

Sir Peter Bazalgette predicts that, "Small doesn't cut it," adding that, "The winners will have to be big enough to [both] afford high end dramas for winning subscribers and maintain large back catalogues to keep subscribers happy."

He says we now live in "the 'martini' streaming age - any time, any place, anywhere".

The question is whether the leaders of the public service broadcasters can forge the right plan to safeguard their industry in that age.

BBC InDepth is the home on the website and app for the best analysis, with fresh perspectives that challenge assumptions and deep reporting on the biggest issues of the day. And we showcase thought-provoking content from across BBC Sounds and iPlayer too. You can send us your feedback on the InDepth section by clicking on the button below.


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Comments

  • By jemmyw 2025-05-176:058 reply

    It has already pretty much died, and I don't think it was by the hand of streaming. It was whatever process put a stop to new shows in the template of the really great shows we had in the past. At some point the risk taking stopped and everything just became the same drudge. Of course, there was always plenty of drudge.

    It was the comedies that were particularly good and very British. Some were very unusual and bizarre, the late night shows. But they were also where writers and comedians got a break and then became mainstream. I would guess that kind of thing is now made for the internet, and its a shame to see everything go so niche.

    An article I came across a couple of years ago (wish I could find it!) talked about how there was this period of time when British TV started to diversify the source of talent, around the 80s and 90s. You got shows like Red Dwarf where the cast were not all from the same small set of drama schools. But it has now reverted and that kind of low budget, take a chance show doesn't get shown on the main channels.

    • By atombender 2025-05-1717:183 reply

      I think this is survivorship bias to a large degree.

      Sturgeon's Law applied then as it does now; 90% of everything is crud. Go back 20-30 years, and the shows you remember as great are only a tiny fraction of the total output. Some (like Monty Python or Brass Eye) were extreme outliers.

      Some shows seen as notable at the time are now mostly, though not always fairly, forgotten because they haven't aged well. Nobody's really watching, I don't know, The Onedin Line or Against the Wind today.

      • By SllX 2025-05-183:33

        > Sturgeon's Law applied then as it does now; 90% of everything is crud. Go back 20-30 years, and the shows you remember as great are only a tiny fraction of the total output. Some (like Monty Python or Brass Eye) were extreme outliers.

        I want to back up and support this point: just pull up a list of shows on Wikipedia from any TV channel you can remember, ideally one with a long history and just go through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s etc. You're going to find a lot more cream the further forward you go into the future, and maybe, depending on the channel and your own personal tastes, a drop off in the last 10 to 15 years. Most TV was just bad, but old TV especially. For every "All in the Family" or "Cosby Show" or "The Wire" or "Frasier"; or to make this more British: "Sherlock", "Doctor Who", "Monty Python's Flying Circus", there's just dozens upon dozens of terrible shows. They each had their audiences, the ones that weren't cancelled (and even some of the ones that were), but it's like, nobody remembers the dirt underneath the flower, but they remember the flowers that they liked.

      • By MrSkelter 2025-05-1921:06

        90% of the BBC wasn’t crud. Even if you didn’t like it. Until the early 90s it was making programming commercial companies couldn’t justify or take a risk on. This programs were fantastic and impacted the entire world.

        This was a corporation (the BBC) who made their own cameras and microphones.

        Go and watch “Ways of seeing” on YouTube. It’s 50 years old and still as exciting and relevant as it was then.

        It was most when conservatives decided that the truth felt a little too left wing and they became vocal about not wanting to fund things they didn’t find entertaining.

        Hence quality was traded for populism.

      • By jxjnskkzxxhx 2025-05-1720:191 reply

        I would argue Monty python is in fact not an exception. Their best sketches are just outstanding, but their median sketches are very unfunny indeed.

        The actual exception is e.g. the life of Brian where you have 90 minutes where almost every scene is funny or at least engaging. Compare with e.g. the holy grail where the best 90% is quite good but the rest is... Not...

        • By atombender 2025-05-1720:281 reply

          I think this misses the broader point of how revolutionary they were. They were hugely original and experimental, breaking with a lot of comedy conventions and redefining them. They've been compared to The Beatles for good reason. They were never the same kind of worldwide phenomenon, but they were equally influential.

          • By jxjnskkzxxhx 2025-05-1720:322 reply

            We were talking about ratio of good stuff to bad stuff.

            • By atombender 2025-05-1721:17

              Sure. They may have had their misses, but the Pythons were exceptional. A classic TV show, two fantastic movies (plus a flawed one), a live stage show that's become a classic — they were among the best of their era, and we're still talking about them.

            • By gizajob 2025-05-185:29

              That’s kind of what “experimental” means though - it isn’t an experiment if you know the results in advance.

    • By SkyeCA 2025-05-1713:00

      > At some point the risk taking stopped and everything just became the same drudge.

      Same for all the big name movies these days, everyone is too scared to take a chance on something truly new. If you want a novel movie experience you basically have to look towards foreign films, often the more arty types (which I love

      On the topic of TV though just consider this for a moment, we lived in a world where someone was daring enough to air "Paedogeddon!" (a Brass Eye special that imo is an excellent work of satire) on TV. Something so controversial couldn't be made and aired today and it was barely able to be even back then.

    • By JFingleton 2025-05-177:1911 reply

      From Matt Lucas himself regarding Little Britain:

      'Speaking in October 2017, Lucas stated that if he were to remake Little Britain he would avoid making jokes about transvestites and would not play the role of a black character, saying, "Basically, I wouldn't make that show now. It would upset people. We made a more cruel kind of comedy than I'd do now... Society has moved on a lot since then and my own views have evolved".'

      Basically the risk taking has gone in modern comedy.

      • By kristianc 2025-05-1711:255 reply

        Little Britain just hasn’t aged well. The sketches were always more about repetition than wit, relied on caricature a lot and mistook shock value for satire.

        You couldn’t make Little Britain today mostly because it wasn’t very good, and the standards of the time were lower.

        You could absolutely remake The Day Today, Brass Eye, Goodness Gracious Me or Peep Show today and they’d be just as good.

        • By rightbyte 2025-05-1711:372 reply

          I think Little Britain kicked downwards.

          I really distasted it when it was running.

          • By kristianc 2025-05-1711:461 reply

            I agree, it’s often held up as a “risk taking” show but I don’t think it wasn’t really anything of the sort.

            At the moment post 1997 when Britain was starting to change and become more diverse and sure of it itself it reinforced an identify of Britain as it used to think of itself: silly voices, binary identities and oddballs.

            It has more in common with Love Thy Neighbour than anything that came after.

          • By fidotron 2025-05-1713:51

            Yeah, that whole era of things like the Jimmy Carr gameshows were honestly a sort of mass nastiness as entertainment.

            This business where we're all supposed to be surprised by what Russell Brand was up to despite him being incredibly open about it at the time is the same thing: society wants to blame the highly visible individuals of that era but in truth it was the audience that wanted this stuff that were the problem.

        • By lmm 2025-05-1712:412 reply

          You could barely make Brass Eye in 2001, as their 2001 special proved, never mind today. And you absolutely wouldn't get away with Goodness Gracious Me.

          • By SkyeCA 2025-05-1713:081 reply

            > You could barely make Brass Eye in 2001, as their 2001 special proved,

            I still hold that special up as one of the best pieces of satire to ever air on TV, but at the same time I'm shocked it was ever able to be produced and shown since it satirizes the one topic above all others you aren't "allowed" to joke about.

            For those interested I highly recommend watching it: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6shgvw

            • By foldr 2025-05-1814:29

              The episode was also made at a time when it was fashionable to hold the view that the country was gripped by a kind of irrational hysteria about child sexual abuse. Monkey Dust's 'pedofinder general', from around the same time period, reflects a similar attitude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCywGhHQMEw

              Decades later this all looks rather naive. The BBC, especially, could hardly make a program satirizing exaggerated concerns about child sexual abuse, given that the Savile scandal proved that many such concerns had in fact been taken nowhere near seriously enough.

          • By arp242 2025-05-1720:23

            Their "Paedogeddon" special would have been highly controversial in any time and was also far beyond what they did before. Do you really think it could have been made in the 70s or 80s?

        • By rozenmd 2025-05-1712:18

          I've seen a few Instagram reels of folks remaking Peep Show for 2025, it works ridiculously well.

        • By harvey9 2025-05-1714:11

          Chris Morris made a career, early on, of getting fired for stuff he did on air. Not many people would risk that.

        • By barnabos 2025-05-1715:26

          It's aged perfectly fine but this infantile and maoist-like philosophy shouldn't.

      • By thinkingemote 2025-05-1711:23

        A lot of comedy back then was about laughing at the absurdities of a shared life.

        The absurdities of yesterday have been changed - and there can be no actual normality today when there are no absurdities. Laughing at absurdities was not considered cruel.

        With no common shared understanding of what's funny or not. Today we can laugh at cruel people only. The cruel and those who think others are weird are the strange ones.

        Comedy used to be "look at us, hahaha" now it's "look at them, heh". Real comedy has truth and the truth is always about ourselves not some external other. But such vulnerability is very risky.

      • By arp242 2025-05-1720:08

        There's an interview with Bob Monkhouse about making TV in the 50s/60s; he wasn't allowed to say "condom" on TV, and would get fined if he said "bloody".

        There's as always a "taboo" on some things. Lots of jokes about sex and religion today that would see you completely crucified in the past. Do you think The Thick of It could have been made in the 80s?

        I never cared for Little Britain and haven't seen it, so I can't comment on their "jokes about transvestites", but this whining about "PC gone mad!" has been going on for 40+ years. A few decades ago it was about "you can't make fun of the pakis and nig-nogs any more!"

      • By mgkimsal 2025-05-1711:222 reply

        I suspect the same number of people were upset in 2006 as would be upset in 2017. But there wasn't a social media platform for those upset views to be expressed and easily measured.

        This idea of "oh everyone is offended these days" is a bit weird to me; the 'these days' part I mean. There was a lot of comedy from the past that was... awkward to me as a kid, or just... felt unnecessarily cruel. But I was in a minority, or at least felt like it, with some of those. And... I don't think I changed, but I now can hear/read about others who share the same sensibilities on comedic topics.

        The notion that it's somehow "more" people getting "offended" today just strikes me as odd. It may be that as more folks have a platform to share their views, that influences some folks, but I'm not sure that works on all topics. Certainly... on comedy, I've heard many of complaints about some comics/topics. Rarely has anyone's view of a comedy bit made me change my position. If I found it cringe/bad, I found it cringe/bad.

        • By StefanBatory 2025-05-1713:282 reply

          back in days you'd just be "allowed" to make fun out of minorities with them not being able to fight back. now you aren't, and thus the majorities are "oppressed" and everything is "politically correct".

          i'm bi. sometimes I watch old Polish comedies or standups. The amount of "jokes" that are just good old bigotry is stupendous.

          so when people say they're tired of "political correctness", I do wonder if they mean - I am no longer allowed to be bigot openly, why can't I kick those who I consider to be below me.

          • By ipaddr 2025-05-1722:39

            People made fun of others and themselves. Now it's only okay to "punch up" which makes things unfunny. It's great you can make fun of religion well only one religion but the rules constrain novel ideas that push outside of those rules to make actual humor. Tell me something I haven't heard before with some truth.

            The repeated going back to the well makes everything unfunny. The first time a Polish joke was said was in Poland many Polish watching laughed because their was kernel of truth that made it funny but years later hearing it repeated like it's gospel makes it awful because people have changed but the joke doesn't so it doesn't land as true anymore. Once we start looking why the joke is untrue instead of why it's true the joke is dead.

            Saturday night live always tries to go back to a joke that was never really that funny.

          • By generic92034 2025-05-1716:20

            Well, looks like in some countries at least open bigotry and discrimination have a comeback.

        • By enaaem 2025-05-1712:59

          During my childhood it were always the Christian conservatives who try to ban video games or get outraged when they say half a nipple on TV.

      • By glimshe 2025-05-177:464 reply

        My son is a teenager but loves to watch old politically incorrect comedies like "Airplane". There's no way you could make that movie today... but there's certainly a market for it, cruel or not.

        Now that I think about it, it's no more cruel than what most kids watch on YouTube today.

        • By bryanrasmussen 2025-05-1712:153 reply

          Airplane could be made today, the central premise would hold up well, some of the skits in it would have to be dropped or altered. Most things that were made in one period could not be made whole cloth in another period.

          • By TMWNN 2025-05-1713:522 reply

            >Airplane could be made today, the central premise would hold up well, some of the skits in it would have to be dropped or altered.

            In other words, not Airplane!.

            • By bryanrasmussen 2025-05-1715:13

              and to say what I said before, hardly any movie that was made in one generation can be made in another. There will always be things that have to be changed. This same thing applies to basically every other work of art - despite the valiant efforts of Pierre Menard.

            • By ta1243 2025-05-1815:511 reply

              The protagonist with Vietnam flashbacks would obviously have to be altered, you couldn't have skits about Ronald Reagan - nobody knows who he is, nor do they know who Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is.

              Having the autopilot smoking after being inflated doesn't make sense in a world where barely anyone smokes.

              • By bryanrasmussen 2025-05-1918:54

                autopilot rates Elaine's Social media profile.

          • By sellmesoap 2025-05-1721:46

            There is an airplane movie from this year! No idea if it can hold up to the old ones and I don't have time to watch movies these days: Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

            https://www.imdb.com/title/tt34956433/

          • By OJFord 2025-05-1712:212 reply

            You think they'd do the jive bit (or an equivalent)? Closest I'd expect would be gen whatever slang with the yeeting sigmas to Ohio etc.

            • By AngryData 2025-05-1713:48

              There are tons of dialects and accents and group slang that the joke could be done with. Doing basic generational slang would likely flop, but you could easily use something like a thick accent from Texas like Boomhower in King of the Hill, or a Louisiana Creole accent, or some deep Appalacian accent, or some Spanglish.

            • By bee_rider 2025-05-1713:091 reply

              I think either way it would be unfunny because

              1) jive isn’t something many people have encountered nowadays and

              2) “internet slang is incomprehensible” is an overdone joke.

              • By OJFord 2025-05-1723:36

                1 is why I said or an equivalent - you could do the same with pidgin or any creole or, I don't know if this is a PC way to say it, but any kind of 'hood' or 'ghetto' type slang. The joke is just person is 'fluent' in an unlikely dialect/way of speaking. If cockney rhyming slang were more prevalent you could do that, with you know a black American or Asian person or whatever being the unlikely fluent one.

                2 is is not really the point, sure it could flop, my point was just that I couldn't imagine it going further than that, not that that would be funny.

        • By nkrisc 2025-05-1712:101 reply

          It's been a few years since I watched Airplane, and while I absolutely love it, I recall it being rather tame even by modern standards. I can think of a few gags that might not land as well today, but I don't think it was mean-spirited.

          • By lmm 2025-05-1712:432 reply

            "Oh, stewardess! I speak jive" would absolutely get you cancelled today. I don't think it's mean-spirited either but that's not enough to save you these days.

            • By anton-c 2025-05-1713:141 reply

              Black man uses heavy black slang isn't an offensive joke. They sound cool.

              When I watched it recently the joke that kinda flops is the heavily stereotyped gay man. Whether it is offensive I have no idea. Its not flattering.

              • By lmm 2025-05-1713:473 reply

                > Black man uses heavy black slang isn't an offensive joke. They sound cool.

                Sure, the old white woman using heavy black slang is where the joke comes in.

                • By veridies 2025-05-1715:57

                  In Blindspotting (2018), a white protagonist is shown as being able to fluently speak an incomprehensibly dense version of AAVE, and it’s revealed later he has no idea what he’s saying (despite communicating effectively). I’ve never seen anyone criticize that joke.

                • By anton-c 2025-05-1814:291 reply

                  The first time without her is funny though too

                  I don't get it does that make her a racist or something? She tries to help.

                  The joke is: their slang is so heavy its another language.

                  Personally make fun of zoomers all the time for this.

                  • By lmm 2025-05-232:15

                    The joke is how incongruous it is that she speaks their language despite being very white. It only works because you expect black people to speak like black people and white people to speak like white people.

            • By nemomarx 2025-05-1712:53

              change jive to aave and I think the joke works pretty similar now? just needs modern slang

        • By teamonkey 2025-05-1712:29

          There’s a sequel to Naked Gun coming out soon, starring Liam Neeson. Whether it’ll be any good or do well at the box office is a different question.

        • By isaacremuant 2025-05-1712:351 reply

          You could absolutely make airplane today. It just depends who does it and some people may attack it but who the hell cares.

          • By gosub100 2025-05-1722:151 reply

            not in Hollywood, is what I think the poster meant, due to the political sickness that has infected them as of late.

            • By foldr 2025-05-1814:001 reply

              Airplane is mostly physical humor and dumb wordplay. 90% of the jokes would be fine as-is. There are a few you'd have to update, but that's hardly surprising for a movie released 35 years ago. You could have said the same in 1980 about most comedies made in 1945.

              • By gosub100 2025-05-1818:521 reply

                the scene of the arabs walking into the airport with RPGs and machine guns wouldn't make the cut.

                • By foldr 2025-05-1819:501 reply

                  Are you talking about this scene from Airplane 2? I don't remember a scene with 'Arabs' going through security in the first one.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meFJCeUWDyY

                  • By gosub100 2025-05-1822:581 reply

                    we're both right|wrong

                    - no, I was wrong that the person passing thru security was in any possible way "arab"

                    - yes it's from Airplane 2

                    - No it's not from the metal detector scene

                    - Yes it's from Iranians

                    - No Iranians are not "arabs"

                    - Yes They are engaged in a stereotypical crime

                    - No it doesn't involve an RPG

                    - yes it involves a battle rifle / something that doesn't belong at an airport

                    https://postimg.cc/0rTzkhyR

      • By foldr 2025-05-1813:52

        Little Britain was always crap and completely mainstream and non-edgy. It's a series of one joke sketches based on familiar stereotypes. I don't want to 'cancel' it, and the occasional sketch gets a titter out of me. But to hold it up as an example of edgy, groundbreaking comedy is quite absurd. You can find oodles of much edgier and funnier shows on British TV today.

      • By krisoft 2025-05-1717:13

        > Basically the risk taking has gone in modern comedy.

        As if the only kind of risk you could take is punching down at trans and black people.

      • By Ar-Curunir 2025-05-177:231 reply

        That’s what you got from the quote? Not the part about being cruel?

        • By JFingleton 2025-05-177:391 reply

          Yes i did... The risk of being cruel, and other things.

          • By croes 2025-05-1711:57

            Cruel against whom?

            Cruelty against the already marginalized is an easy target.

            Kicking downwards is easy.

      • By cam_l 2025-05-1710:37

        Yeah, none of that was what was funny about little Britain... and I think you missed the point.

    • By harvey9 2025-05-1714:074 reply

      Red Dwarf. Low budget yet still enjoyable today. I recall reading the SFX were done on an Amiga with something called a VideoToaster.

      • By jl6 2025-05-1715:281 reply

        Are you perhaps thinking of Babylon 5?

        But yes, the low budget is part of the formula for success. Without a ton of money, they had to rely on wit and creativity. Most shows now have comparatively gargantuan budgets, and it goes on big sets, big effects and big names, but the things that actually make a show good (compelling story, enjoyable writing) are unbottleable magic that you can’t just buy.

        • By harvey9 2025-05-189:05

          I definitely meant Red Dwarf but another person pointed out that the show originally didn't use VFX.

      • By semanticist 2025-05-1715:391 reply

        Red Dwarf used practical effects in the era when VideoToasters were a thing. For some reason the BBC replaced the lovely miniature shots of space ships with crap CG in a mid-2000s remaster.

        • By Lio 2025-05-197:32

          VideoToasters were a thing but they didn’t work with PAL, at at least not the original version.

          I agree that the models looked better IMHO.

      • By jemmyw 2025-05-1721:31

        They did it with models. They then rereleased some of the earlier shows with CGI, demonstrating how much better it was with models.

      • By arp242 2025-05-1719:501 reply

        Would anyone like some toast? Muffin? Teacake? Buns? Baps? Baguette? Bagel? Crumpet? Pancake? Flapjack? Waffle?

    • By madaxe_again 2025-05-1712:352 reply

      It isn’t just comedies - there used to be a plethora of interesting documentaries produced by the beeb, to the extent that for a while they had a channel (BBC 4) pretty much dedicated to them. I used to be able to find something interesting on there any day of the week, and likewise, iPlayer held a great catalogue of content. BBC 4 was slated to be axed a few years ago, first thing on the chopping block. They seem to be stuck in decision paralysis, which is absolutely emblematic of what faces them.

      While the BBC still produce documentaries, the quality has declined over the last decade or so, and when Attenborough dies they will be fresh out of ideas, as right now it’s just… Attenborough, and licensed human interest pieces.

      I just can’t see it being a thing in 10, 20 years, as they surmise - I would wager they will whittle away until all that remains is BBC News, which will run on a shoestring, even more than it does now.

      • By polar 2025-05-1712:381 reply

        > BBC 4 was axed a few years ago

        No it was not. BBC Four is still going strong. It's great.

        • By madaxe_again 2025-05-1713:301 reply

          Ok, fine, they decided to axe broadcast services and move it to be online only - but this discussion is about broadcast TV.

          https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61591674

          • By polar 2025-05-1714:322 reply

            They haven't moved it online. Find a TV and switch it on - BBC Four is still there, for now at least!

            https://ukfree.tv/channels/all/Freeview

            • By rgblambda 2025-05-1716:001 reply

              I've noticed this a lot with anti-BBC folks. They have some ideological issue with it but that isn't a popular position so they go for more niche arguments like "The entire historical catalogue isn't fully available to watch on demand" or "They axed BBC <insert number> from broadcast". Arguments they don't actually care about. It's just a way to snipe at the BBC.

              As you've pointed out, if someone loves being able to watch BBC Four on broadcast TV, they're not going to be complaining about it's non existent axing.

              • By madaxe_again 2025-05-188:451 reply

                I’m very pro BBC - but they reached their apogee in the early 2000s and have been in a state of steady decline since.

            • By UncleSlacky 2025-05-1717:07

              The problem is that BBC Four now only shows archive material (with occasional exceptions as "overflow capacity" from sports events etc.) whereas they used to commission their own documentaries.

      • By badgersnake 2025-05-1717:02

        Basically none of this is true.

    • By OtherShrezzing 2025-05-177:301 reply

      Comparing all programming in the 80s and 90s to current programming is going to throw up more “hits” for the multi-decade time range than the contemporary.

      There are a few other comments listing them all. The uk has lots of high quality novel shows coming out every year. Our tv export market is strong, both for programming and for formats.

      • By rgblambda 2025-05-1715:52

        It's not just the time range that's the issue with that comparison. Older shows had less competition and had a longer time to develop a cult following.

    • By ramenbytes 2025-05-176:211 reply

      Probably too recent, but any chance it was this? https://www.voicemag.uk/blog/14186/red-dwarf-diversity-in-sp...

      • By jemmyw 2025-05-184:30

        No, it was longer and wasn't concentrated on red dwarf. It started on the casting for Sherlock.

    • By jxjnskkzxxhx 2025-05-1720:181 reply

      I find it interesting that you mention red dwarf. As I started reading your comment I thought I'd comment something "i think that's just nostalgia, for example red dwarf is awful but people love it". And then you mention red dwarf.

      • By jemmyw 2025-05-1721:291 reply

        Eye of the beholder. I personally think Red Dwarf series 1 to 6 was great. It even charts a course of British TV decline. Series 1 and 2, low budget sitcom, class warfare and the loneliness of space. Series 3, more budget, more sci-fi, but similar writing. Series 4 and 5, more budget, more sci-fi, becomes monster of the week, but the character building from the prior series keeps it funny. Series 6, even more budget, they start to explore some more interesting sci-fi themes. This turns out to be popular, so it gets more budget again and moves to BBC 1, more cast etc. Series 7, 8 just urgh, trying to appeal to "mainstream" was stupid because it was already popular enough, it loses the serious side. Everything they've done since then feels like they're trying to force the humour that came naturally before. The actors have aged but the writing didn't mature with them.

        I watched some interviews with the cast and they would joke around in the canteen between filming and find their jokes had been overheard and incorporated into the script. It had this realistic dialogue.

        • By evanelias 2025-05-1722:02

          Personally I thought seasons 11 and 12 were excellent. Substantially better than the other season 7+ / post Rob Grant departure stuff.

          And then after season 12, The Promised Land movie was just ok, but it still had a few genuinely funny moments.

  • By gadders 2025-05-1713:493 reply

    Whatever happens, they need to decriminalise the license fee.

    "Almost a third of women’s convictions are for not paying the TV licence fee, figures have revealed.

    Women are ten times more likely to be convicted for not paying the £157.50 annual fee than men – with growing numbers of women then being slapped with criminal records, Ministry of Justice data shows."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-f...

    • By permo-w 2025-05-1714:497 reply

      this modern style of criticism is so tiring. if you philosophically disagree with something, don't try to abuse the defence of an oppressed group as a rhetorical technique to make it harder for people to argue with you, just say you disagree with it and why

      even if you genuinely believe this is why it should be decriminalised, if women are being disproportionally affected, then clearly either there's some kind of bias in the process, which should simply be fixed instead of disbanding the whole process, or women are simply less skilled at dealing with situations like this and need more help. either way it's not an issue with the concept of the license fee

      I actually don't disagree that the license fee in its current format is a problem, ideally it should just be impossible to access it without having paid, but I don't think it's feasible with the way freeview works

      • By jpsouth 2025-05-1714:533 reply

        Anecdotal, but out of my family I’m the only man who doesn’t pay the licence fee, and the only person who hasn’t had a visit.

        They’ve visited my mother, sister and one auntie that don’t pay - they all live alone and are the sole name on the bill.

        I’ve heard from friends similar experiences too, single men and households with men on the electoral register don’t get visits, or very rarely if they do.

        I had the pleasure of answering the door at my mothers to one of these people and believe there’s an issue with the way they choose who to investigate. It’s predatory.

        • By notahacker 2025-05-1715:461 reply

          Suspect more obvious factors are that men are far less likely to be home during the daytime when inspectors visit, and also more likely to admit they've had a TV for years or let the inspector in if he asks nicely...

          (FWIW I'm had a visit shortly after I'd moved in with five other guys before, and avoided prosecution by simply asking how to pay...)

          • By gadders 2025-05-1717:371 reply

            I suspect it's more likely that the inspectors see women as a soft touch and lower risk and more easily intimidated and less prone to violence.

            In the same way ticket inspectors on trains ask people in suits for tickets but avoid asking the 6ft tall roadmen.

            • By jpsouth 2025-05-1720:20

              This is my theory. My relatives wouldn’t have a clue whether they were lying about being some official inspector and saying they’re allowed to inspect, and they would probably be scared of either an official looking, or bailiff looking person telling them this.

        • By wigster 2025-05-1715:013 reply

          i'm beginning to think i'm the only one that DOES pay it.

          • By jpsouth 2025-05-1715:19

            It’s not really a topic of conversation that I’d bring up, but I know many people who do pay it so you aren’t the only one.

            I don’t because I don’t use anything that requires me to, not from a moral standpoint. The BBC has given me a lot of fantastic content over the years but I’ve just stopped consuming most television over the past 5 years or so.

          • By MrScruff 2025-05-1716:211 reply

            I don't pay it because I don't watch television anymore, live or otherwise.

            However I do find the overreach of claiming I need to pay the license if I watch any form of live broadcast is ridiculous. If I wanted to watch the occasional live stream of a football game online via Amazon Prime then I would need to pay the license fee.

            • By permo-w 2025-05-1716:451 reply

              that's too far, agreed, although I would be extremely shocked if anyone has been prosecuted for that

              • By jpsouth 2025-05-1720:261 reply

                People are prosecuted for this with zero evidence other than an ‘admission’, with the admission being as nebulous as ‘yeah the tv is on’.

                How can you prove someone was watching TV in court? As far as I’m aware you can’t, but the court sides with Capita generally. Please don’t bring up the TV detecting vans as evidence.

                • By permo-w 2025-05-1720:29

                  none of this is evidence anyone has been prosecuted for watching live football from a streaming service

          • By bartread 2025-05-1715:161 reply

            No, I do too, and I’m happy to do so. I’ve always felt it’s a useful brake on over-commercialisation of other channels, although perhaps less effective now than it once was. I do enjoy quite a bit of the BBC’s output as well.

            • By permo-w 2025-05-1715:272 reply

              I feel there's a huge problem in this debate, which is that the people who don't like it are extremely vocal, and the people who do like it and quietly use and enjoy it without necessarily adoring it, perhaps like you, who I suspect are a majority, are just not really represented in the conversation, and the people who love it, like me, do not really have a central reference point from which to draw power from unlike the people who don't like it, who have the entire right-wing media crowing about it at every opportunity

              • By bartread 2025-05-1721:432 reply

                You might be underrating my ardour on this as I've said my piece at greater length before.

                I've always been in favour of (something like) the license fee to fund a non-commercial national public service broadcaster. Public service broadcasting is incredibly important otherwise it's all just commercial interests and you end up with the kind of nonsense you get in the TV landscape in the USA: low quality content, far too many ads, dominance of hyper-partisan "news", etc.

                And if you look at what the BBC does - the TV channels, iPlayer, the national radio stations, local radio, news, the world service, the ground-breaking content they've created over the decades, and of course licensing/reselling content - it's incredibly impressive and, to me at any rate, represents incredibly good value for money as compared to other providers.

                The TV license costs about the same as an annual Netflix subscription but the BBC is able to do so much more with that money than Netflix are. Doesn't even compare in my mind.

                • By andriesm 2025-05-2011:21

                  If you believe in it, then pay. Just leave the rest alone that want no part of it.

                • By permo-w 2025-05-185:03

                  agreed on every point

              • By notahacker 2025-05-1715:501 reply

                Not to mention the people who are extremely vocal about how horrible and woke it is for having too many minorities and that Mr Lineker also overlaps heavily with people who have watched it continuously for 50 years, wouldn't dream of switching over to newfangled channels like Channel 4 and don't know what an Amazon is...

                • By GlacierFox 2025-05-1717:13

                  I think I'm one of those, minus the last bit about channel 4 and Amazon.

        • By permo-w 2025-05-1715:001 reply

          perhaps there needs to be an inquiry into the issue

          • By jpsouth 2025-05-1715:161 reply

            I doubt Capita would have any fallout from an inquiry, it would be another headline for a day or two then get forgotten by the media. I’m all for it though, they should be held accountable, my first statement is purely cynicism from me.

            • By permo-w 2025-05-1715:321 reply

              depends who the government is really. I'd be cautiously optimistic that the current government would do something about it, ideally taking it out of the hands of a private company in the first place. this government is too nervous for that kind of thing, but I do think they could do something about it.

              • By jpsouth 2025-05-1720:221 reply

                That’s got me thinking, who controls that? Do the BBC willingly employ Capita to enforce the licence, or are they mandated to enforce it in some way and Capita just so happen to be the vultures that were cheapest to hire?

                • By permo-w 2025-05-1720:31

                  I have no idea but my guess is that it's handled privately so that no one at the BBC has to get their hands mucky

      • By RHSeeger 2025-05-1716:101 reply

        > if women are being disproportionally affected, then clearly either there's some kind of bias in the process, which should simply be fixed instead of disbanding the whole process, or women are simply less skilled at dealing with situations like this and need more help

        Or they're more comfortable breaking that particular law (under the same conditions). I'm not saying that _is_ the case, but it is one of the possibilities.

        • By xienze 2025-05-1717:222 reply

          It’s right there in the article:

          >The ministry’s report admits the chief reason why so many women wind up being prosecuted is because they are more likely to open the door to inspectors.

          Men literally or figuratively tell the inspectors to fuck off, women don’t. It’s not bias, systemic issues, or whatever. It’s entirely on how women handle the situation that explains the difference.

          • By RHSeeger 2025-05-1719:14

            Right, but the post I was responding to was listing out reasons that women might be prosecuted more, including being targeted more. So, unless you mean that they are targeted more _because_ they are more likely to open the door to inspectors, my point stands.

          • By naijaboiler 2025-05-1717:351 reply

            They need to figure it a different way to do enforcement that’s not as discriminatory. The current approach leads to disparate outcomes and is therefore inherently discriminatory

            • By RHSeeger 2025-05-1719:20

              It's not necessarily discriminatory just because it winds up impacting one group more than another.

              For example, if you have 2 groups of people and one of the groups is doing something wrong twice as much, and you enforce the law on everyone... it's fair, not discriminatory. (Ignoring the fact that what is labelled "wrong" can be done in such a way as to be discriminatory. I'm assuming a neutral view of what is wrong )

      • By ta1243 2025-05-1716:532 reply

        > I actually don't disagree that the license fee in its current format is a problem, ideally it should just be impossible to access it without having paid, but I don't think it's feasible with the way freeview works

        So you think that it should just be privatised like netflix. If you don't think public service broadcasting has a place, just don't try to hide it.

        • By hajik 2025-05-1718:241 reply

          I don't get the TV license model myself. I think a government should collect taxes and provide services without adding elaborate schemes to pretend something else is happening.

          • By permo-w 2025-05-1719:242 reply

            the point is that it partially takes it out of the hands of the government of the day. if it were solely funded by taxes, it would be long since dead or privatised by now, and if it weren't it would be entirely beholden to pleasing the government. maybe in a more mature country it could work, but not here

            I think the license fee, with a couple of tweaks, could be absolutely ingenious. the best of both worlds. the freedom of choice of the free market, and the lack of commercialism of the public sector, and no one has to pay taxes for it. however, it does restrict user choice somewhat by forcing them to pay for it to watch any live tv, even football on streaming platforms. I think there could be a discussion to be had about changing it to where users pay just to watch the BBC and not live tv in general

            • By ta1243 2025-05-1816:061 reply

              If you want to change it to a BBC subscription fee, then you're just changing the BBC into Netflix. The whole point of the BBC is that everyone pays and everyone can benefit - same as the NHS, or libraries, or roads.

              I think the only way that change could work while protecting the BBCs editorial independence and maintain its public service remit would be to have it as part of council tax. A £160 a year charge on a band D house (with appropriate discounts for Band A-C and excess for E-H). The default amount would be set as the license fee is now.

              • By permo-w 2025-05-1816:151 reply

                that's not the point of the BBC whatsoever, otherwise it would just be a tax like everything else publicly owned. it's precisely the opposite in fact. it's voluntary

                • By ta1243 2025-05-198:451 reply

                  It's never been changed to a direct tax to prevent direct interference from the government

                  The BBC has an obligation to serve everyone, not just subscribers. Netflix has an obligation to serve subscribers, at least well enough that they don't leave.

                  • By permo-w 2025-05-199:57

                    >It's never been changed to a direct tax to prevent direct interference from the government

                    that's half of the reason, and also feeds into the other reason. if it's not a direct tax and it's semi-voluntary it's harder for people to criticise as unfair. not that they don't find a way

                    >The BBC has an obligation to serve everyone, not just subscribers. Netflix has an obligation to serve subscribers, at least well enough that they don't leave.

                    this is an intrinsic property of Netflix being a private business, not Netflix being a subscription service. the BBC could comfortably move to a subscription model and still have the exact same ethos. the BBC's payment model is not so different from a subscription model that right now a private company would be serving license fee payers rather than everyone in general

            • By hajik 2025-05-1720:201 reply

              Seems like an awful lot for TV, and where most of the friction in the custom design is for the public.

              All the other areas that republic misdesign hits have much larger budgets and much more corruption, but those topics are a bit harder for the public to engage with so a special program does very nicely at preventing any system corrections.

              • By permo-w 2025-05-1720:281 reply

                I enjoy the way you think and phrase your thoughts (are you on ketamine?), but I think that publicly-owned broadcasting, particularly (exclusively) the entertainment side of things, is the opposite of republic misdesign. it's a freak accident of something very very positive and joyful and broadly selfless rising above the waves of self-interest and corruption and misery.

                I think the news part of the BBC should be removed, maybe spun off into a separate entity

                • By hajik 2025-05-1720:492 reply

                  I think you misunderstood my sub-point.. I think we both agree about the BBC as a wonderful result. I question the motives for a special system of protecting it in a government that doesn't seem to get any better at other sectors.

                  • By ta1243 2025-05-198:47

                    Of of the BBCs jobs is to scrutinise the government. Editorial independence is essential. You can argue how well it does this, but if the government has direct control over its funding, it clearly won't be doing that task any better.

                  • By permo-w 2025-05-183:54

                    my understanding of the justification for a special system is that it's inherently more fragile and more tempting to attack than other government services, which generally provide tangibly vital, life-preserving services, rather than less tangible artistic and cultural ones, and the particular form of the service lends itself to being funded in a way that wouldn't work for other more vital services

                    healthcare is possibly one of the few that could (i.e. does in other Western countries) work similarly, but people including me would undoubtedly despise it. most things need some kind of mandated funding otherwise they would fail and people would die, go homeless, not have a military or live tangibly worse lives, and mandated taxed funding is generally better because it relies more on those with broader shoulders

                    overall I personally reject your notion that there's some kind of subversive justification for it

        • By permo-w 2025-05-1719:051 reply

          I think if you knew me you would know that I am the absolute last person who wants to privatise the BBC. the privatisation of the BBC would be the end of my world. I think the public ownership of the BBC, and the BBC in general is the greatest cultural achievement of modern Britain.

          I just think that instead of making it so that people can fuck up and not pay by accident or by laziness, it would be better if there was no way for that to happen. it has nothing to do with public vs private ownership

          • By permo-w 2025-05-1917:32

            honestly though, on second thoughts, a subscription model would just completely hollow out the BBC. if they're struggling for funding now, god knows what it'll be like if 80% of homes didn't have a license. they'd have to either massively expand BBC Worldwide, or take tax money. I honestly think it sounds like a good idea, but I just don't think it's viable.

      • By huhkerrf 2025-05-1718:421 reply

        It's not modern, although I don't disagree that it's more common. But you do have jokes even back to the 80s of "world ending, women and minorities most effected."

        • By permo-w 2025-05-1719:40

          interesting. I suppose the women's rights movement has been around for a very long time

      • By argotastic 2025-05-1714:57

        [dead]

      • By gadders 2025-05-1717:392 reply

        "Modern form of criticism" - pointing out the fact that the license fee is unfair and as a consequence disproportionately affects women.

        >> women are simply less skilled at dealing with situations like this and need more help

        Wow. That's a bold take.

        • By permo-w 2025-05-1718:58

          I think you know how disingenuous you're being here, so I won't bless this with a genuine response

        • By gosub100 2025-05-1722:19

          its ok for women to get prosecuted. they are not special

      • By redczar 2025-05-1716:431 reply

        Your complaint would have much more merit if there wasn’t hundreds of years of examples of women being systematically discriminated against and having the system unfairly target them.

        • By permo-w 2025-05-1719:271 reply

          my complaint would have less merit if GP weren't simply using those hundreds of years as rhetorical technique

          • By redczar 2025-05-1720:261 reply

            this modern style of criticism is so tiring.

            It’s a modern style of criticism because….anyone…anyone…

            We should ignore historical reality. It’s makes you uncomfortable.

            • By permo-w 2025-05-1720:35

              >It’s a modern style of criticism because….anyone…anyone…

              are you going through a tunnel?

              in all seriousness I don't know what you're trying to say

    • By gsky 2025-05-1715:50

      BBC would do anything to keep it going sadly

    • By harvey9 2025-05-1714:031 reply

      Some remarkable doublethink from the BBC in that article: "The BBC said licence fee avoidance did not bring with it a criminal record. A spokesperson said: “Details of the offence are not held on the Police National Computer – so while there is a criminal conviction there is no criminal record.”"

      So yeah, people, mainly women, go to prison but I guess it's not a big deal on paper.

      • By permo-w 2025-05-1714:371 reply

        no one is going to prison for not paying the license fee. the article brings up prison, but only as a way to sneakily associate it with non-license fee payment in a way that clearly worked on you

        • By harvey9 2025-05-1714:492 reply

          And yet many people (mainly women) go to prison for, in essence, not paying the licence fee. The fact that they technically go to prison for not complying with a court order is merely splitting hairs.

          I cancelled my license in the wake of the Saville scandal when it was finally admitted what was common knowledge inside the BBC: that they had been covering up a sex offender on their payroll for years. Obviously 'lessons were learned' so when Huw Edwards came along they repeated all the same mistakes.

          • By permo-w 2025-05-1715:091 reply

            is it splitting hairs though? they're going to prison for refusing to engage with the justice system, which is a very normal thing to go to prison for the world over. what the original offence was isn't really relevant

            • By JadeNB 2025-05-1716:391 reply

              > is it splitting hairs though? they're going to prison for refusing to engage with the justice system, which is a very normal thing to go to prison for the world over. what the original offence was isn't really relevant

              It is relevant, though. If someone who wouldn't otherwise have been dragged into the receiving end of the justice system gets dragged into it, and then has to comply with all its bureaucracy, it matters whether or not that person should have been dragged into it. ("Should" in both a legal sense and a sense of morality or equity.)

              • By permo-w 2025-05-1719:301 reply

                my perspective is that we shouldn't be shaping our laws based on whether the least competent 0.001% of society can deal with the administrative implications. if you're so incompetent that you can't handle any of the many many stages between paying your license fee and going to prison, then you've got bigger issues and perhaps you should be in care or still in school

                on the other hand if they're deliberately not engaging with those stages, then it's hard to really feel much sympathy

                • By harvey9 2025-05-189:082 reply

                  For the most part it's just because they're poor and can't budget either a one off or monthly payment for the fee.

                  • By Mindwipe 2025-05-1814:08

                    They don't need to - the court will take it out of their wages or be edits before they receive them.

                    You have to actively try to defraud the court by lying about your earnings to face prison.

                  • By permo-w 2025-05-1812:34

                    if it goes all the way to going the stage of going to prison, then there are clearly bigger issues than this

          • By huhkerrf 2025-05-1718:451 reply

            You keep mentioning the "mainly women" bit. Does that really matter that much? If mainly men were the ones impacted, would that change how good or bad the policy is?

            • By harvey9 2025-05-189:15

              It matters under the UK's equality laws. If something like this affects one class more than another then there's an obligation to learn why that is, as the answer may lead to a court finding the, in this case enforcement process, to be unlawful.

  • By globalise83 2025-05-175:545 reply

    Given that the BBC has failed to offer their own solution for the many British and other people living abroad or with second homes abroad who would be interested in accessing their content, and instead driven us to consume a small subset of their content through Netflix, my sympathy is limited.

    • By ViscountPenguin 2025-05-176:203 reply

      Is Britbox not available in your country? Here in Australia it has relatively high market penetration even.

      • By fy20 2025-05-177:051 reply

        No OP, but I'm in a smallish EU country and it's not available here.

      • By rubitxxx3 2025-05-1711:38

        In the US and watch Britbox and Acorn at least as much as other providers now. We watch a lot of Aussie and British shows, new and old, color and B/W.

        The BBC made really great shows. If they go under, it’s a shame. I would pay tax to help the BBC keep going. I’d pay the Aussies, too, if they’re not getting comp’d.

      • By arp242 2025-05-1720:48

        BritBox is available in a very limited set of countries: Australia, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, United States.

    • By azuanrb 2025-05-177:091 reply

      Unfortunately that's the reality. I'm into Doctor Who but in Asia it's pretty much impossible to watch it through any legal means.

      • By 1317 2025-05-1712:10

        the new new one is meant to be available on disney plus

        not sure about the others though

    • By anthk 2025-05-177:181 reply

      Tor Browser, set the exit Node to one from the United Kingdom and disable JavaScript.

    • By rwmj 2025-05-177:001 reply

      £5/mo VPS and get_iplayer?

      • By walthamstow 2025-05-186:57

        This is how I watched Match of the Day from Japan for months

    • By permo-w 2025-05-176:381 reply

      just change your dns to a UK server

      • By swores 2025-05-1712:162 reply

        You're mixing up different bits of tech, streaming services (like BBC's iPlayer) don't care (or know) what DNS servers you're using. To get around their geo-blocking you need to change your IP address, either by using a VPN service or a proxy server.

        • By gruez 2025-05-1712:501 reply

          He's probably talking about one of those "smart dns proxy" services. The way they work is that they return a proxy server IP for geoblocked domains, and the normal IP for everything else. The proxy server in turn figures out which server to connect to using the SNI header.

          It's misleading to call it "change your dns to a uk server", but he's also not totally making it up either.

          • By swores 2025-05-1712:53

            Yeah I'm not accusing them of lying, sure if they use a service that also includes proxying then that can bypass geo restrictions it just has nothing to do with DNS or the country the DNS server is in.

        • By permo-w 2025-05-1712:321 reply

          why say something if you quite clearly don't actually know anything about the thing you're saying? do you really think I'm saying this without having done this myself many times? without it being a well-known and well-publicised method?

          • By swores 2025-05-1712:361 reply

            edit: deleting this comment rather than keep editing it to go with your edits. Please research how geo-blocking works.

            • By permo-w 2025-05-1712:451 reply

              my friend I will ask you again: why are you saying this if you haven't actually tried it? google it if you don't believe me. I have used the technique many times, and just because you think geoblocking works one way does not mean that it actually does

              • By swores 2025-05-1712:501 reply

                If it worked for you, that could be because when you changed your DNS server you also changed your public IP, or possibly because you used a service that doesn't just provide DNS but also caches content meaning you were accessing it without touching the BBC's servers.

                There just isn't any aspect of BBC's geo blocking that cares what DNS servers you use, and if you go spend 5 minutes on Google looking into how geo-blocking works you won't find anyone talking about DNS servers being relevant.

                I can't speak to your personal experience as I wasn't there, but I do have experience on the side of actually doing geo-blocking so I can say with confidence how that works. Apart from anything, the website / streaming service literally doesn't have any way of knowing what country your DNS server is in... the DNS server is just the thing that your computer asks "where does bbc.co.uk point to?" and it replies with the IP address for that domain. From the BBC's point of view your visit looks identical regardless of which DNS server gave that answer. There are ways of doing geo-blocking that are more complicated than just IP address (though BBC doesn't use them, it just goes on IP address), but none of them involve DNS.

                • By permo-w 2025-05-1713:021 reply

                  why are you over and over again just guessing at what's true? literally google the words "dns geoblocking" and then come and apologise

                  • By swores 2025-05-1713:241 reply

                    I just did that search, and several pages talk about "smart DNS services" which also proxy your IP... not a single result suggesting that DNS itself is relevant.

                    The thing is, I'm not guessing, I'm someone who has actually spent time learning about how networking works, doing my first Cisco course when I was 17, and then in my adult career I've on multiple occasions been involved in implementing geo-blocking.

                    So I'm sorry if I haven't been clear, or have given the impression of being an idiot to the point that you think not worth listening to anything I say, but if you actually go and read up about how geo-blocking works you will find out that I'm not making things up when I say that BBC cannot tell the location of your DNS server, and if you've found that using a particular DNS service does bypass the restrictions then it still has nothing to do with DNS other than that the DNS provider is also offering you a proxy service.

                    Here's a starting point: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo-blocking

                    • By permo-w 2025-05-1713:331 reply

                      look, perhaps I've been a bit uncivil in the way I've responded to you, but I think these are what you're confusing:

                      -- a site not being able to tell the location of your dns server, which is true

                      -- your dns server not affecting how sites can adjudge your location, which is not

                      • By gruez 2025-05-1714:36

                        >-- a site not being able to tell the location of your dns server, which is true

                        >-- your dns server not affecting how sites adjudge your location, which is not

                        Neither of these statements are definitively true/false.

                        1. Sites can most certainly tell the IP (and thus the location) of your DNS server. There are many sites that demonstrate this, just search for "dns leak test". Whether sites actually use this is another question.

                        2. Sites can serve different IPs (servers) depending on the DNS server, or even the client (through the edns client subnet extension). Some CDNs use this strategy to route requests to the closest server. However, this fact is a red herring when it comes to assessing whether "just change your dns to a UK server" is a viable strategy for getting bbc iplayer to work, because its geoblock checks based on IP of the http request, not through DNS.

                        There's also the question of "smart dns proxies"[1], which make it seem like all you're doing is "change your dns server to a UK server", but there's far more that goes under the hood than just changing your DNS server, because it's actually proxying your traffic as well. Changing your dns server to a uk server that isn't a smart dns proxy wouldn't get you pass bbc's geoblocks.

                        [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44013929

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