In Defense of Outdoor Play
There was a heated debate in Amsterdam recently over whether children should be allowed to continue playing inside a neighborhood soccer cage. Some residents complained that it was too noisy and demanded the cage be reduced in size. Others argued that the noise of children playing was normal and healthy, and the case should stay as is. The case went to court, and the supporters won out. The cage stayed.
Following the decision, Amsterdam’s sports advisory council, the Sportraad, published a report stating that the sound of children playing should not be considered a nuisance. It called the noise a “natural, welcome, and unavoidable part of life,” and recommended that bylaws be changed so that “the sound of playing children was no longer a valid reason for complaint by vexed neighbours.” Doing so would help prevent playground closures due to complaints (via The Guardian).
This is welcome news to any parent. Raising kids is hard enough, but it’s even harder when you’re a parent who is trying to reduce a child’s screen time, increase their hours of outdoor play, and somehow keep them quiet at the same time. That can feel like a near impossibility, particularly in urban settings where homes are clustered near parks, and where small outdoor spaces are shared by kids of all ages.
Noise complaints about kids playing outdoors are becoming all too frequent. A Toronto mother received an anonymous letter telling her to “correct” her four sons for screaming and to keep them constantly supervised or take them to the park. In Vancouver, a popular playground slide was removed after neighbors complained it was too loud. In Calgary, a man installed a chirping alarm that went off every time the kids next door whooped or shouted in their own backyard. The kids’ mother told a news reporter, “I thought it was an annoying bird, and it wasn’t until we were out in the back that I realized it was when the kids were just playing.”
In Texas, a family was sued by neighbors who said the noise from their four kids playing in a backyard playhouse violated their “tranquil quality of life.” In Long Island, parents were cited for violating a noise ordinance because their daughters squealed while swimming in a pool. That summons was later dismissed, but the message was clear: your children’s joy is a problem.
Cities across North America and the UK have restricted street sports, citing noise, “probable harm,” and safety concerns. In Mississauga, Canada, officials upheld a ban on all street play. In the UK, London has more than 7,000 signs forbidding ball games across housing estates, limiting the movement and activity of an estimated half a million children, despite nearly 53% of British kids failing to meet the recommended 60 minutes of daily exercise. The list goes on.
Several years ago, the New York Times reported on rising hostility toward child play noise in Japan. There’s even a crowdsourced website where people log complaints about “neighborhoods inhabited by stupid parents who let their children play on roads and parking lots.” Experts believe this growing intolerance reflects the country’s aging population. As one demographer put it, “fewer children makes people less accustomed to hearing the noise they naturally make,” which leads to more complaints, discourages families from having children, and reinforces a vicious cycle of demographic decline.
It’s easy to become annoyed by noise if you don’t spend time around children. When most kids are indoors, in cars, or in structured activities, and when fewer adults live near families, even ordinary sounds of outdoor play can feel disruptive.
But play is essential, and play is loud. Kids yelp, squeal, cheer, chant, and crash into things. That’s how they express joy, test boundaries, and connect with one another. Trying to suppress that energy by demanding silence or defaulting to screens is damaging.
Of course, there’s a difference between regular noisy play and gratuitous screaming, which parents should minimize. Reasonable rules are fair: no shouting early in the morning or late at night. But adults also need to recalibrate. The sound of children playing should not be treated as pollution. It is the sound of a healthy, functioning community.
Whether we want to admit it or not, many adults still cling to the old idea that “children should be seen, not heard.” That’s part of why screen-based entertainment has taken over. It’s quiet. It’s controlled. It keeps kids docile. But quiet does not mean well. A child staring at a tablet may seem calm, but it often comes at the cost of physical, emotional, and social development.
We don’t treat adult noise the same way. Leaf blowers, barking dogs, construction projects, loud music, traffic, and late-night parties are generally accepted as part of urban life. If those sounds are allowed, then children’s laughter and games should be, too.
If you're a parent: Send your kids outside. Let them run, laugh, and play with others. Find other families in the neighborhood so your children aren’t the only ones outside. Teach them reasonable limits—no screaming, no super early or late play — but let them be loud, curious, and energetic. Join organizations like Block Party USA, Let Grow, and Outside Play Canada that promote social gatherings and work to normalize kids playing outdoors.
If you're a neighbor: Please don’t call the police or leave anonymous notes. If something genuinely bothers you, have a calm, respectful conversation with the parents. Chances are they’ll appreciate your honesty and work with you. And if you enjoy hearing kids outside, let the parents know. A kind word goes a long way.
If you’re a teacher or school administrator: Let kids play noisily during recess, without admonishments to keep quiet or calm down; the more energy that gets expended on the playground, the less will be carried into the classroom — or at least, that’s the hope! Advocate for the creation of play clubs, where kids can engage in raucous, energetic play in mixed-age groups before and after school.
If you’re in local government: Take Amsterdam’s lead. Make clear that play noise is not a valid reason for complaint. Create environments that encourage outdoor activity, like slower traffic, wider sidewalks, safe parks, ball-friendly spaces, and play streets. Advocate for the removal of “no ball games” signs, if they’re prevalent in your neighborhood. When cities show they value childhood, families feel it.
Cities are shared spaces. They belong to everyone, including children. Kids shouldn’t be treated like intruders just because they’re laughing, bouncing balls, or shouting during a game of tag. They’re not being bad. They’re being kids.
Let Amsterdam’s soccer cage stand as a model for how to think differently. Let’s welcome the joyful sounds of play as proof that life is still happening out there and that the next generation is growing up strong, loud, and free.
Read the original article
Comments
By petercooper 2025-07-0920:1411 reply For years our neighborhood had an ice cream truck or two turn up a few days a week during summer, which we used to enjoy. This year, not a single one.
I saw one of the trucks at a school fete and asked about it. The guy said one person had complained about the noise so the local council banned them after 7pm! With most of their sales falling between 6-9pm, they decided it wasn't worth it for one hour and moved on to other local towns.
So not exactly "kids", but I think banning the normal, everyday noises involved in a local culture, whether that's church bells, kids playing football, carol singers, or ice cream trucks, is a slippery slope to nowhere positive.
By taylorlapeyre 2025-07-0920:185 reply I agree, but with a caveat about ice cream trucks specifically. If they park in one spot and play the same jingle very loudly for hours on end (say, three to four hours in one location outside of your home), it is in fact insanely maddening.
By masfuerte 2025-07-0920:24 The UK has rules about this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-practice-...
Among other things, playing the jingle in the same place repeatedly is prohibited.
By lapetitejort 2025-07-0920:294 reply Have you heard the ice cream trucks with a random "Hello?" thrown into songs? I don't understand the purpose. Googling brought up some people saying it goes back to the 90s, or that it's specifically a Southern California thing. Strangely enough the movie A Different Man (2024) played that exact sound during an emotional scene. That movie takes place in NYC.
By macNchz 2025-07-0921:32 Definitely a thing in NYC—had an ice cream truck that would sit down the block from my place playing music all day long and many years later that "hello" is like nails on a chalkboard.
I wonder what the copyright licensing is on Frank Mills Music Box Dancer which is quite common on the icecream trucks here
By lapetitejort 2025-07-0921:09 Based on the images and knock-off ice cream bars I've seen, ice cream trucks seem to treat copyright as a suggestion
By neaden 2025-07-0920:36 I hear the Hello from our local ice cream trucks in Illinois, so not just a California thing.
By nunez 2025-07-105:05 It's for vibes basically. I thought it was hilarious when I was younger
By johnthedebs 2025-07-0920:231 reply I may be more sound sensitive than most, but if I could hear it loudly for even 5-10 minutes I'd be annoyed. 3-4 hours? While I'm at home? Absolutely no way; I'd complain too.
By petercooper 2025-07-0920:29 In the UK stationary ice cream trucks don't play music, only those travelling around, so you hear it for a couple of minutes at most as it winds around the neighborhood. I'd also be complaining if it was going on for hours :-)
At my old house, we had the best ice cream truck. Rather than playing music, it just had like a train bell. Sounded like the ice cream engine was rolling through. Ding.... ding .... ding ....
By loco5niner 2025-07-0920:31 That is a vast improvement.
By cocothem 2025-07-102:11 for the entire time the ice cream truck is stopped, it's engine is still running and generating toxic fumes. Had one parking strategically right next to a playground.
By alfalfasprout 2025-07-0920:423 reply TBH a lot of it is also a cultural shift toward being selfish. You notice it here in the comments as well.
Combined with "karen" culture, people are more empowered than ever to complain about things. They forget that when they were kids, they'd be loud, play in their neighborhood, and get up to no good :)
It's a real shame, this mentality is what's moved us away from a feeling of community.
By ectospheno 2025-07-0921:094 reply Complaining about an ice cream truck you can hear in the back of your house while wearing noise cancelling headphones isn’t Karen culture.
It absolutely is. Gettin an ice cream truck banned from your neighborhood because you heard it drive by is the epitome of Karen behavior.
By hombre_fatal 2025-07-0922:163 reply Blasting sound out of your vehicle into a residential area for hours just because you want to sell something is selfish.
So is defending the behavior and imposing it on everyone around you just because it's sometimes convenient for you to walk 10 meters for some ice cream once a month.
Like TFA says, we have to decide as a society what kind of noise we think is worthwhile. The sound of kids playing seems essential for a culture to stay friendly to family development.
But broadcasting an advertisement jingle to neighborhoods because you want to make money, perhaps not.
Ice cream trucks are awesome. I have stopped wfh zoom meetings due to Mister Softee coming by and wanting to grab an ice cream. The surprise and delight of a treat when totally unexpected is wonderful. No one complained.
By nunez 2025-07-105:07 I miss Mr Softee too!
By s1artibartfast 2025-07-101:052 reply You are focusing on the driver, but what about the patrons. Is one selfish person listening to sound for a minute enough to to prevent 10 kids from being happy? 100? 1000?
By cycomanic 2025-07-103:58 So what about the sound of your car going by my house every morning? That's really the irony, everyone is complaining about all sorts of noise, but the worst noise in urban environments, the constant traffic & car noise, is somehow sacrosanct.
By anon1251212451 2025-07-103:361 reply No, doing so is the equivalent of using Adblocker.
By gilfoy 2025-07-1123:31 Isolating yourself from the sound via one of various available methods would be analogous to using Adblock.
By earnestinger 2025-07-0921:29 Parent is perfectly right.
> cultural shift toward being selfish
I enjoy ice cream so damn all other opinions :)
By southernplaces7 2025-07-107:24 It completely is. If you're talking about one parked for dozens of minutes or hours, sure, worth getting annoyed, but if you, living in an urban environment, can't handle a few minutes of some random noise from someone just trying to get their economic sustenance while making a few of your neighbor's kids happy for a bit, you're the problem. The funny thing is how many people try to justify their specific unreasonable intolerance as something completely okay to impose on others with complaints.
By sophacles 2025-07-0921:32 Yes it is. No Karen thinks she deserves the title... even tho she does.
By wink 2025-07-1013:27 Sometimes it's also just the individuals.
We have a small playground here and for a number of years there were exactly 3 people being loud and obnoxious. One mom and her two sons. None of the other kids ever bothered me. :P
I'm not sure about this being a new thing. I also think we've gone too far with the anti-karen whiplash and think everything before that was trendy was perfect. When I was a kid that got up to no good or was just being annoyingly loud, I would hear about it. There's always been an acceptable loud, like kids running around and playfully being loud at a park or playground. Going to the same playground with a loud stereo is not the same thing. You're clearly up to no good as a teen smoking and hanging with your friends. You make it sound like kinds "back in the day" never got into trouble. I can assure you, I, er we, absolutely got in trouble for getting up to no good.
By sophacles 2025-07-0921:53 There's a difference between the neighbor (whom you've almost certainly met) stepping out and saying "hey stop that" or "keep it down", and karen calling the cops. That's the new thing - this insane insistence that children must be kept hidden, and that the authorities must be involved if they are playing in designated play areas, or walking around the block unsupervised, or (heaven forbid) being loud during reasonable daylight hours.
Certainly, there were plenty of "dude, really?" moments when kids would go over on limits. It is hard not to think we haven't pushed the limits down to zero, though.
Granted, using smoking as an example is hilarious to me. I confess near zero sympathy for that going away. If anything, I'm pretty sure I'm more dumbfounded that people still smoke in any real numbers.
By subjectsigma 2025-07-100:593 reply Former/recovering smoker. I hear this sentiment a lot (“Why would anyone ever smoke? It’s just dumbfounding”). I can tell you the reason people smoke is because it feels fucking great. It’s a terrible, terrible habit and the number of smokers of any drug should be zero, but I’m not going to lie to you and tell you it wasn’t relaxing and enjoyable.
By taeric 2025-07-1013:22 Oh, I know that that must be the case for a lot of folks. The movie Trainspotting did a pretty good job communicating some of that.
The surprise on my end is usually that new people smoke. Anyone that had already developed the habit, I am not surprised still does it. In that regard, it is not unlike any other drug.
I also realize I should count myself incredibly lucky that smoking does not impact me at all. I literally feel nothing when I try a smoke or cigar. Can barely even taste it. Reminds me of my grandfather who used to smoke to be social. When he found out they were bad for you, he just stopped. Had no withdrawal at all. Yay genetics. :D
By southernplaces7 2025-07-107:281 reply Second this. It's not like us smokers, or at least most of us, are sitting there hating every minute and aspect of having a smoke but unable to stop. We maybe can't stop, sure, but it's also just wonderful while we're doing it.
I've found that I wanted to smoke long after I stopped enjoying smoking.
By southernplaces7 2025-07-113:311 reply Dealing with the worst (or is it maybe best?) of both worlds still. I both want to smoke and enjoy it too damn much, even though a little background alarm in my inner brain blares for much of the day reminding me that this is a potential death sentence I just keep playing with so much..
By stirfish 2025-07-1112:47 What do you like about smoking? My favorite part was getting to stand outside alone for 5 fucking minutes.
Check out Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking, if you're interested. It helped me think a lot more about what I was doing and feeling, and turned out to be useful in a bunch of other areas in my life. I found the audiobook ripped from cassettes as a torrent.
By dylan604 2025-07-101:49 It's the same thing as why would any shoot a spike into their veins to get high on heroin. The lack of empathy for an addict is telling. The indignity of a righteous ex is insufferable. How someone became an addict is not necessarily relevant, but once they're hooked quitting is not so simple as those unable to empathize while on high horses want to think.
It is however annoying when the addict does their thing in public with zero fucks to give for anyone else around them.
By loco5niner 2025-07-0920:303 reply Ice cream trucks are specifically obnoxious especially in a neighborhood or a park. I would also complain. They would fit in fine at a carnival or similar.
I've always found it odd that most people would complain if someone sprayed water all over them, but are surprised when people complain the same way about obnoxious noise.
I do live next to an elementary school and enjoy listening to the children playing. Like the article says, that's a natural, even joyful, sound.
By dkarl 2025-07-0922:11 I agree; I wondered how HN would manage to make the article controversial, and this was the answer, equating the sound of playing children with the sound of intrusive commercial marketing aimed at children.
By moron4hire 2025-07-0921:222 reply Ice cream trucks are a weaponized guilty trip against parents. The kids whine and complain about wanting ice cream and I'm already having a hard enough time modeling good food habits for them. If it were once a month I wouldn't mind, but it's been every day for the last month. Like, dude, nobody needs ice cream that much. Please stop starting an argument in my house.
Incidentally, we just replaced all the windows in our house, and now the kids can't hear the ice cream truck coming, so chalk up one disproportionately expensive W, please.
By matthewaveryusa 2025-07-102:171 reply 100% this. I tell the kids it's a trick and they seem to like it and point out when the trick-truck is back. Works great at checkout as well with the trick shelves.
By loco5niner 2025-07-1014:58 I love this and will be stealing it to use with my kids
What? If you can't tell your kids no without feeling guilty, it actually sounds like you need more places to tell your kids no? If they are whining about it, set the expectation that whining and not accepting a no is, itself, unacceptable?
This one is an odd area where I would think budgeting would be a good lesson. Set a budget aside for how much they can spend per day and per month on ice cream. If they have the funds, they can get it. If not, make it clear on when they exhausted their budget. In this regard, it should not be an open question on whether or not they can get something. And any "no" will be a direct result of something they have control over.
By tstrimple 2025-07-1019:07 There are a huge number of parents who just don't want to parent their children at all. You see it on HN constantly. "We have to ban cell phones for all kids because I don't want to tell little Johnny he can't have one when his friends all do! That's hard!"
By moron4hire 2025-07-1019:161 reply Instead, how about you just not assume you can tell what is going on in someone's house based off of your obviously limited experience with children and one post on an internet message board.
I really don't appreciate your reply. It comes off as assuming that I'm basically an idiot. "Oh, just tell the children no!" Yeah, that doesn't really work when you have highly intelligent children you've been raising to be rational, thinking agents. They may not be developed enough to value long-term health issues over short-term pleasure gains yet, but they certainly are skeptical enough to call out fiat answers as bullshit. I'm actually rather proud my children argue with me so much, despite how exhausting it can be.
Hence me targeting my ire at the damn ice cream truck. It's not my children's fault they want ice cream (they are children) or that they are elementary school lawyers (I have certainly encouraged it, much to my in-laws' ire). It is the ice cream truck operator's fault for employing marketing tactics aimed directly at children. I keep my children off of cable TV and pay for streaming subscriptions to keep them away from completely unadulterated junk until they have brains developed enough to see through it, but this guy injects it out of my control.
By taeric 2025-07-1020:00 I'm sympathetic. Apologetic, even. I can sadly see an easy way to read the tone of my reply as overly condescending. But, to counter with the assumption that I have limited experience with kids is not helping the discourse.
It was specifically the use of the words "guilty" and "whining" that struck me as wrong there. I could see wanting to avoid seeing disappointment. But I don't consider that guilt. And I'm pretty strict on my kids when they start whining.
By loco5niner 2025-07-1014:561 reply Oh man, I've got young kids and there are so many battles. I don't need more battles, please. Especially artificial battles purposefully created by intrusive marketing jerks.
Don't make it a battle, is my point? Give them something they can control, if that helps. But, if they can't take a "no" then that is a problem. And not one to be fixed by just avoiding it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for avoiding unnecessary conflict. And a lot of conflict avoidance with kids is to not let them turn it into a conflict. You said no, you didn't start a fight.
By loco5niner 2025-07-1022:271 reply Call it a battle, call it just saying no. Either way, it's a jerk blasting music in a place they shouldn't. Disturbing peace and quiet, and forcing parents deal with yet another thing when they just want to take their kids to the park.
My kids are 2,3, and 4. No works just fine for now, and we are laying the foundations for budgeting.
By moron4hire 2025-07-110:37 It's not even good music.
Not even Doom music!
Presumably, the problem was the truck music, not the ice cream sales. There's a market opening for a travelling ice cream seller who doesn't play loud, obloxously noise on loop after 7pm.
By pavel_lishin 2025-07-0920:531 reply Our local ice cream truck plays a very annoying jingle, coupled with a woman's voice saying "Hello?" in an obnoxious way. I haven't complained, because I'm not that kind of asshole, but something about that voice clip feels like stubbing my toe over and over again.
If it were a regular jingle, I'd have no problem. Perhaps one that could be turned down so you don't hear it from halfway across town.
Was it this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BF88VYRvE
The "hello" is bizarre. It's like something a weapon AI from Metal Gear Solid would do to flush out its enemy.
The tune is also weird. It's not a recognizable folk or children's tune, and it sounds vaguely Japanese, like background music from a Sega Pico game.
If I heard an ice cream truck playing this come down my street, I'd think I was in an episode of Black Mirror, or some sort of analog-horror scenario. I'd do my best to find a good hiding place and avoid being seen. (Maybe crouch in a cardboard box?)
By bitwize 2025-07-0921:40 I found the tune I linked to. It is, in fact, Japanese in origin: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KpT9mHF7xfE
By pavel_lishin 2025-07-1020:39 Fuck me, that's it.
By petercooper 2025-07-0920:311 reply Someone else involved in the conversation suggested they could announce their times and locations on Facebook, which I thought was a good idea, but I guess it conflicts with their preference to not have a fixed schedule. They just drive round till they make enough money and then go home when they're bored.
By parpfish 2025-07-0920:43 Or just play the jingle on the half hour like church bells
By dekhn 2025-07-101:07 Can we trade? I live near a park and many days I hear the truck driving around the block literally for hours, and they just play one song.
By anon1251212451 2025-07-103:34 I'm all for kid noises because it's good for them but ice cream truck, church bells... should definitely be gone.
By schwartzworld 2025-07-100:261 reply Funny, we have the opposite problem. Ice cream trucks in my area have become way too aggressive. I would give anything to ban them from our neighborhood, as they come through within the first hour after school getting out, causing daily arguments in houses with children. Sometimes more than once a day.
Look, even if I wanted to give my kids ice cream every day after school, I am at home and would just get it from the freezer. Even if I say yes to ice cream today, it’s another exhausting round of “why can’t we get ice cream” tomorrow.
At the park yesterday, two trucks were making the rounds. Meaning every 15 minutes, there was an argument. I overheard multiple exhausted parents saying things like “because I already got you ice cream!”
> church bells, kids playing football, carol singers, or ice cream trucks
One of these things is not like the other. Some people like carol singers. Who likes Turkey In The Straw blared through a cheap speaker on loop?
By southernplaces7 2025-07-107:361 reply Or these parents could, you know, learn to create limits and rules for their kids and teach them to respect those, instead of blaming the ice cream truck that spends a few minutes outside at a good time for sales because the parents can't get a grip on something so minor. That guy is trying to make a living, and the inconvenience is tiny for any one area where he spends barely any time.
A lot of the so-called Karen culture is like this I think: people who can't manage their own internal issues trying to outsource the solution to them by imposing demands on others just trying to live their own lives..
By schwartzworld 2025-07-1011:162 reply Spoken like someone who either doesn’t have kids, or at least has easier ones than mine. You think you’re just going to explain to a four year old the rules about ice cream and they’ll just be like “you’re right daddy. I forgot we had ice cream from the truck yesterday. I’ll grab some carrot sticks instead”?
It’s not really ethical to market that aggressively to kids, because kids just want. All the time they want. Most people here were children themselves once, or at least know people who have been children. If kids had the credit card, they’d spend everything on Pokémon cards and candy.
Here’s a better question before you call me a Karen: given that most people have freezers, who exactly benefits from daily ice cream truck visits? Not the parents, for reasons above. The kids find it frustrating too. The fact that they had ice cream yesterday usually doesn’t ease their disappointment.
> You think you’re just going to explain to a four year old the rules about ice cream and they’ll just be like “you’re right daddy. I forgot we had ice cream from the truck yesterday. I’ll grab some carrot sticks instead”?
If provided with consistency, yes that's exactly what happens. I've raised three kids who have not had repeated meltdowns over hearing an ice cream truck.
By schwartzworld 2025-07-1020:161 reply > I've raised three kids who have not had repeated meltdowns
Mazel tov. Unfortunately for parents who aren't you, the act of providing the "consistency" you're advocating for, often DOES require dealing with repeated meltdowns, or even just maddeningly repetitive questions of "why not". Children are born wild animals (not yours, of course), and raising them is the act of civilizing them.
If there's one thing that annoys me about other parents, its seeing or hearing about someone dealing with a difficulty that your kids didn't have, and then patting yourself on the back for being a better parent. Every time you explain something to your kids, they just got it and stopped bothering you about it? Trust me when I say, you are in the minority.
> meltdowns over hearing an ice cream truck
I know for a fact, it just wasn't an issue when I was a kid, or even in our neighborhood until this year, when the trucks started parking on our street after school. For many children, that is a time of the day when they are exhausted and unlikely to be reasoned with. Maybe it's a sign their parents are "inconsistent" or whatever, but I maintain that there is a difference between a truck stopping by once every hour or 4-5 times per hour, and also a difference between an ice cream truck at the park vs stopping on residential streets one by one every day. There's no other business that works this way, it's not like they have some fundamental right, and that's not even talking about the noise pollution aspect.
By LiKao 2025-07-1115:12 These "maddeningly repetitive questions" are exactly the internal issues that are being talked about. If they ask "why not" just let them ask.
It's not your job as a parent to 1) make sure your children are happy all the time 2) defend your decisions against all attacks.
I found that when children say "why not" repeatedly, they are actually saying "I am unhappy and want to find an argument to reconsider your stance". If you signal them that this is actually something to argue about, e.g. by repeatedly answering these questions, they will just play the game you are offering them.
I found that it's actually a good approach to only directly answer "why not" the first time, and to just answer it the second time by "I understand that you are unhappy about my decision. I have already explained it and will not explain it again. If you need help dealing with your unhappiness I will be there for you."
A lot of the maddening part of these questions is most often the parent not being able to deal with the unhappiness of the child. Once you accept that unhappiness is a natural part of life 1) this will be easier for you 2) you will model much better for your child how to deal with unhappiness.
By southernplaces7 2025-07-113:06 >Spoken like someone who either doesn’t have kids, or at least has easier ones than mine.
I do actually and in particular a little one with autism, making part of the process for educating on certain things more difficult than average, but despite being far from parent of the year, I manage and there are things that work.
>You think you’re just going to explain to a four year old the rules about ice cream and they’ll just be like “you’re right daddy. I forgot we had ice cream from the truck yesterday. I’ll grab some carrot sticks instead”?
Well, yeah. That's what parenting is partly about. Establish limits or conduct through repeated insistence on certain rules and lessons to be learned learned, instead of trying to make complaints against others causing a minor inconvenience with their own source of making a living or food choices you don't seem to like.
Parenting isn't easy and each case is different, but if something as minor as a few minutes of ice cream truck marketing is too much to handle with your kids, blaming others isn't your solution to that problem.
And please, the whole ethics thing you describe is just absurd in this context. A jingling ice cream truck, which kids love and which hardly sells something terrible or deceptive, is far from the kind of manipulative marketing you're contriving here. It's just a basic and basically harmless reality: Kids love ice cream, and there's nothing wrong with someone selling a bit of it to them. You're creating an ethical knot that doesn't have any good reason for existing in a normal world.
Example: Every time I take mine home from school, we pass by a Dairy Queen that's on the route home. Oops, and guess what gets asked for each day that this happens? Some days I say sure, and we go get a cone or blizzard. Other days, it's a firm no, and that's that. Repeat insistence made this work out okay. And I don't blame the DQ for anything, even though this particular branch happens to also use music to market its very visible presence.
>Here’s a better question before you call me a Karen: given that most people have freezers, who exactly benefits from daily ice cream truck visits? Not the parents, for reasons above. The kids find it frustrating too. The fact that they had ice cream yesterday usually doesn’t ease their disappointment.
Totally subjective opinions of your own, and in no way justifying getting so annoyed that you want to ban these things, as you seem to. Again, how about not converting your personal dislikes of minor things into trying to shut those things down.
By thinkingtoilet 2025-07-0920:273 reply It's amazing how much power one person can have if we let them. I would organize people to talk to the people who made the ban and let them know you are unhappy. People pay so little attention to local politics that even an issue like this can result in someone being elected or not being reelected.
It really is crazy in the USA how much of an overreaction a single, loud, entitled, nosey, complaining neighbor can get with local government: whether it's complaining about kids making noise, complaining about kids playing alone, complaining about traffic, complaining about suspicious black people in their neighborhood, complaining about the length of their neighbor's grass or a car parked in front of their house. You read all these stories about how one complaint resulted in the police being deployed, fines being assessed, innocent people getting in trouble, roads getting speed bumps and 5 all-way stop signs, and other crazy shit happening because some one person couldn't manage to mind their own business.
By jpk 2025-07-0921:39 I think part of this is because people often don't appeal to local government unless they've got an axe to grind. Nobody goes to the city council meeting to comment on how everything is great and things are fine the way they are. So when someone shows up to complain about ice cream truck music, the people who are pleased, or at least indifferent about it, don't show up to oppose the complainer, and the signal the council members get is that it's a problem and a city ordinance or whatever is required. There are typically opportunities in the local law-making process to allow someone to oppose the complainer, and it does happen, but few will match the complainer's level of effort. Then if a law makes it on the books, local LEOs become the complainer-class's customer service representatives, and you get what you're describing.
Ultimately, local civic engagement is often what matters most to your day-to-day life, which is good. I think effective and durable self-governance must start at the local level. But we get blasted by media related to national politics at every time and season, to the point that the thought of trying to stay dialed into local government is a non-starter for many. If all the attention we can bear to allocate to politics is monopolized by the national wedge issues of the day, who will muster the volition to save the ice cream truck music?
By Der_Einzige 2025-07-0920:45 Now imagine a determined AI agent empowered by a nefarious and disgruntled AI researcher.
By dylan604 2025-07-0921:06 When it comes to government reps that field calls like this, there's some variation of a formula saying for every one phone call translates to X number of people that feel the same way but do not make the call. It used to be different weightings for someone calling vs writing a letter. Either way, it was more a statistics reaction. Not sure if this comes into play or not.
It could also be that the single person that did complain happens to be a close friend or even related to someone else powerful, or is just influential in the area in other ways. That tilts the weighting as well.
By antonymoose 2025-07-0922:37 I’ve grown up in a Hollywood Hillbilly-esque family, one that made it but kept to the original values. That is to say the e’ve “made it” and live in a highly regarded vacation destination area. Except I grew up learning to stand up to bullies, ne’er-do-wells, and miscreants, if that meant coming to fisticuffs, so be it.
From a young age I learned a fascinating lesson, socially speaking, is that some non trivial percent of the population does not at all mind the proverbial “Karen” causing a ruckus for the community. However, the second you stand up and tell them you don’t agree, somehow, you are the one held responsible as the troublemaker.
It’s not the initial ruckus causer that matters, it’s the conflict causer that does. Too many don’t care about change in any way, they care about “the peace.”
It is downright depressing seeing all of the people pile on regarding the food truck. I can almost understand setting a volume limit on it, if there are some that are going overboard. After all, I'll gripe to my kids for yelling while in the same room with me. But banning or justifying a ban!?
And, I'm fine that we disallow extreme things such as sonic booms. Yes, that should remain banned. For really good reasons. No, that does not extend to sounds of life.
Does it somewhat suck to live near a ball field during playoff season? I guess? Isn't exactly a hidden part of life, though. It also somewhat sucks when the chickens are upset about something out back. Or, heaven help you if you have frogs nearby.
Reminds me of the hilarity of people that want to point out how horrible fireworks are for pets. You aren't wrong, but fireworks are nothing compared to a standard storm in many places. So, maybe tone down the bitching about it a bit?
Edit: Amusingly, I'm currently working from basically under an airport at the moment. Also a very loud place.
By nano521412 2025-07-104:571 reply It's just that annoying. If your city aren't so car dependent maybe kids can get their snack from real vendors in commercial area instead lol
By taeric 2025-07-1013:28 Trust me, it isn't that annoying. Having sea lions that won't stop barking all day is annoying. Coyotes in mating season is obnoxious. A rooster that has decided to not be quiet is annoying.
So sure, kids doing kid things can be loud and obnoxious. But it is not really any more annoying than anything else. The ice cream truck playing a jingle is just not that big of a deal.
Now, I do suspect some folks have obnoxious trucks that play far far louder than they need to? In this vein, it is a lot like cars going down the street. At a base level, it makes noise and it doesn't really make sense to complain about it. That said, it is extra obnoxious to have people trick out cars and motorcycles to be loud on purpose. And those I have no sympathy for getting banned.
By ravenstine 2025-07-0921:13 Meanwhile, nobody does anything about all the crotch rockets and douche canoes with exhaust systems deliberately modified to be obnoxiously loud at any hour of the day.
By jancsika 2025-07-0921:11 > is a slippery slope to nowhere positive.
Both you and the author are rankly speculating.
Worse, the author is outright misleading:
> Trying to suppress that energy by demanding silence or defaulting to screens is damaging.
The word "damaging" links to an article by Haidt with evidence of damage from defaulting to screens, but decidedly not evidence of damage from demanding silence.
They make the same bait and switch with screen time in a separate paragraph, again with a link to a Haidt article.
I have to say I resent both you and the author for forcing me into having to side with boomers! But you have zero evidence that forcing kids to play sardines instead of tag is detrimental. Given that, I must begrudgingly respect the boomers' grudge and side with your local council's ban (or at least say that it appears innocuous). :(
Kids playing is great, but I think this article glosses over some important wrinkles.
A big one I see is that some parents seem incapable of distinguishing between "there are times when it is okay for my child to play noisily" and "my child's activities and/or noise level should never be restricted". Playing in a park is great --- that's what parks are for! Playing in your yard, or an apartment courtyard or the like, great. Playing on the sidewalk is fine. . . but remember that sidewalks are also for people to walk on, so if someone comes by the kid needs to realize that they should let them pass. But then we have parents who come into stores and let their kids grab things from shelves and play with them in the middle of the floor, and so on.
Part of accepting and embracing play is understanding that not every moment is playtime, and that even within playtime there can be subcategories with different expectations.
This article frames it in terms of noise, but in my experience a lot of the issues people have with noise are really issues about parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids, and teach their kids that behavior --- not just noise, but everything --- has to be adjusted for different situations.
By pier25 2025-07-0921:52 > parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids
Absolutely.
Kids being loud when playing football or at the beach is fine and even expected.
Letting your kids run around the theater is not fine. You're ruining the experience for everyone.
By arp242 2025-07-1012:41 I agree there are some kids and parents who are just unreasonably and/or obnoxious loud in unreasonable moments; I don't think anyone really denies this. I've seen kids race on scooters in supermarkets while the parents were right there. Ugh.
But at least some of these complains have been about really quite reasonable and limited noise levels. For example at my last apartment some kids played out in the courtyard during summer. It really wasn't that often or all that loud. There were a few people who complained as if the kids were out of control, but that wasn't the case at all.
I live next door to a summer camp. The kind that has kids from the nearby city come for 2 weeks, sleep in bunks, play outside all day, hike, etc.
A few months ago we had a carpenter doing some work on the house, and he was asking me about the camp and living so near to it. Eventually he asked "Are they loud when they play? That must be so annoying. I'd hate that."
I replied "Nah, it's healthy and fun, and it doesn't travel as far as you'd think. The real annoying sounds are all the lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered tools that people keep using throughout the summer". He immediately went quiet and sour. Guess I hit a nerve.
Maybe because he was trying to make small talk and you insulted his profession?
OP mentioned "lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered tools".
That has nothing to do with standard carpentry.
The carpenter may have thought the same sentiment is being applied to loud power tools such as table saw, jointer, router, …
By klank 2025-07-0920:39 Certainly, which is why the social interaction OP described makes sense.
But OP was specific in the loud things they mentioned, and that list very much does not directly imply carpentry. So to then make it about OP's lack of tact by explicitly calling out the OP for focusing on their profession? It strains credulity as a good faith reading of OP's story.
By nothrabannosir 2025-07-0920:35 In other words: GP hit a nerve.
You don't think carpentry falls into the category of "professions that make loud noise outdoors"?
Sure, and if OP had said that, perhaps we'd be having a different conversation. Or none at all?
EDIT: Ah, maybe you're responding to my remark of it having "nothing to do"? If so, yeah, that's hyperbole. There are similarities if you want to look for them. But I don't think they're meaningful connections for the point of the story and OP's reaction, in my opinion.
The point of the story is that someone tried to strike up a conversation with OP and he responded by effectively saying "your job is loud and obnoxious", and it's presented as if it's a win. It doesn't really seem like one to me.
The comment was not aimed at the carpenter. Nothing he was doing was loud, and nothing I've experienced with carpenters gives me the impression that they are loud or obnoxious. He was doing a great job. If he took what I said as a dig at his profession, that was his connection, not mine.
My take away, after the fact, was that he may have been someone who enjoyed landscaping his own yard and owned several tools that I listed. Nothing to do with his career and services, and nothing that's a reflection of our interaction.
The story wasn't meant to be a win or a competition. It was a reflection on how some people associate some loud sounds, such as motors, as being perfectly fine and other loud sounds, like children at play, being a nuisance.
That's fair enough. But don't you think carpentry could be considered a loud profession, like the other ones you listed? I imagine carpenters as banging nails with hammers all day. :P
Hammering can get loud. But not louder than any motorized tool. And hammering being limited by the energy capacity of flesh and blood doesn't last for long bursts, maybe a few minutes at a time. In contrast, motorized tools let out an egregious, sharp hum that can last for an hour or two without pause. Both might draw someone's attention and frustration, but when comparing them objectively, one is clearly worse than the other.
On top of that, carpentry is done on site and isn't mobile. Someone doing carpentry as a hobby will likely be in a garage or some enclosed space that absorbs and muffles the sound. Carpentry being done professionally is temporary and will stop once the construction is finished. Landscaping, though, is everywhere and without end
By johnfn 2025-07-1017:15 I believe you that it was unintentional (and I'm sorry for implying that it was!), but I still think the carpenter was upset because you implicated him. Just to prove I'm not crazy here, I asked GPT as a neutral third party, which agrees:
https://chatgpt.com/share/686ff4e8-b7f0-800c-9bbf-bdc1e59500...
Gasoline powered generators and air compressors that the carpenter might use to power tools can be quite noisy.
By jauntywundrkind 2025-07-102:11 I cannot wait for these to be banned, please, I hope.
It would cost so little comparative money for construction sites to go battery powered. There's some exemptions that need to be made (welders), but man, I doubt the average construction worker uses 1kWh a week. Battery power that shit, you brutes, and spare the world!
Switching these folks to battery would be such an enormous relief for cities. The cheapest shittiest 2 stroke generators raging from 7am to 4pm is an infernal senseless ceaseless din.
By klank 2025-07-0921:19 Of course. But we already established that OP struck a nerve. OP themselves said that. And nobody was confused about why they struck a nerve with the carpenter.
But this isn't a conversation about whether or not it was possible to connect from what OP said to "loud noises". We all seem to agree on that. Specifically it's a question of whether OP was targeting the carpenters profession. I can't see how OP did that.
I'm kind of surprised I'm still here arguing this. But hey, it's a slow day and I guess it struck a nerve with me for some reason. Hope you're having a good day too!
By pavel_lishin 2025-07-0920:54 What?
I've never seen a carpenter use a lawnmower on the job. Seems unwieldy to drag up a ladder.
On a more serious note, most carpentry tools aren't that bad in terms of noise. They can get loud, but they tend to be momentary, getting a cut done, and back to silence. It's the landscaping companies that are running powered tools right up next to people's houses for 30-40 minutes at a time that are the problem. And by the time one company is done, another arrives and revs their own engines.
As for me ruining his attempt at small talk and insulting his profession... Eh. If someone's idea of small talk is trying to make children appear disrupters of the peace for having fun at camp for 6 weeks out of the year, as children ought to do, I'm not too concerned about making a comment expressing a common and often relatable sentiment that makes that person feel bad about their own disruptions of the peace. To the extent that I "insulted his profession", that was him setting himself up. Don't serve a dish you wouldn't want to eat. He could have made small talk in a hundred different ways or found a way to show appreciation instead of annoyance, but he said what he said, and he set the tone.
By reverendsteveii 2025-07-1020:00 >Don't serve a dish you wouldn't want to eat.
BRB, off to the tattoo shop
By the_cat_kittles 2025-07-0920:10 social skills of hn on display
By AnimalMuppet 2025-07-0920:185 reply Carpenters don't use many gasoline-powered tools...
By klank 2025-07-0920:22 Guess we had the same thought, I posted a similar comment. It genuinely threw me for a loop cause I was trying to figure out how OP actually said anything about carpentry...
By mr_toad 2025-07-0921:51 Making furniture with chainsaws is a thing. Funnily enough they used to call this hacking, rather than carpentry.
By askafriend 2025-07-0920:20 This is even funnier.
By GuinansEyebrows 2025-07-0920:09 i can't tell how much of a point you're trying to make, but if complaining about children playing is small talk, the less of it the better.
By askafriend 2025-07-0920:082 reply Definitely this. A total lack of awareness and tact demonstrated by OP.
By reverendsteveii 2025-07-0920:17 The point of the story is that OP is absolutely aware of their lack of tact.
By justinrubek 2025-07-0920:141 reply This is a very ironic comment.
By madcaptenor 2025-07-0920:461 reply Also the camp was probably there when you moved in! So if you complain about normal camp noise you just didn't do your due diligence.
People buy cheap[er] houses near airports and then try to get airport ops changed/restricted all the time. (I agree with you, but it’s obviously a thing that people have no problem doing.)
By analog31 2025-07-0921:55 IANAL, but there's established precedent about this, under the heading of "Coming to the nuisance."
Yeah, I hate lawnmowers. I live next to a church/religious school and an apartment building both with a large yard. I don't mind the daily church bells at 6/12/7 but the constant lawn mowing is the worst.
By mensetmanusman 2025-07-1522:44 Donate a tax deductible electric lawn mowing system that quietly cuts 24/7.
By Der_Einzige 2025-07-0920:481 reply Very based. All the people who try to claim that this is bad social skills apparently just take it from folks in the often scummy trades (i.e. mechanics, dentists, etc when I say scummy) who treat us like shit and make snide comments and backhanded compliments with impunity about us lazy computer users. This is triply true in the post AI era. They hate us cus they aint us.
You hit a nerve here too.
By GuinansEyebrows 2025-07-0921:081 reply i think you might be picking up on a level of disdain from others based on your attitude that might not be related to your profession.
we are all extremely lucky to have been born at the right time with the right set of resources to have found work in the information trade. we are not better than mechanics or dentists, and we're often compensated to ridiculous degrees when compared to arguably vital roles like teachers, social workers, therapists, custodial staff, conservation workers, public defenders, farm laborers, and so many other professions.
By scubbo 2025-07-0921:50 > i think you might be picking up on a level of disdain from others based on your attitude that might not be related to your profession.
Bravo
