Why We Spiral

2025-09-1414:46380108behavioralscientist.org

Questions of who we are or what we’re worth can send us into a tailspin. But the very same processes that pull us down can propel us up, too.

Say you’re a senior member of your team at work. You’re 12 minutes late to the weekly staff Zoom. Once you’ve “joined audio,” the first thing you hear is your old friend’s voice. “There you are! So glad you could fit us in.” You laugh and explain the disastrous traffic, difficult drop-off at your kids’ school, or whatever it was that messed up your morning. The moment passes and the conversation moves on. You turn to the job at hand, focused and ready to go.

But what if you’re a junior staffer, still feeling your way. Same thing happens: You’re 12 minutes late to the weekly staff Zoom. Once you’ve “joined audio,” the first thing you hear is the boss’s voice. “There you are! So glad you could fit us in.” A few colleagues chuckle. You consider making excuses—about traffic, drop-off, whatever it was—but the moment passes, and the conversation moves on.

Your mind doesn’t, though. It’s still ruminating. Was that snark in my boss’s voice? Were they talking about me before I logged on? Do I fit in here? Am I any good at this job? You might not be fully aware of these questions. Your mind works quickly on multiple tracks at the same time. And those questions are nasty; they threaten your sense of belonging, your worth, and your value, at least at work. So you try to push them away, to suppress them. But they’re still there. And once they’ve been triggered, it might feel like the evidence keeps pouring in.

Someone makes an inside joke in the chat. You don’t get it. I don’t belong here. Someone rolls their eyes while you’re talking. They don’t respect me. The boss ignores you for the rest of the meeting. No one sees me. Again, these thoughts may not be fully conscious. But there’s no mistaking the fact that your motivation to get back to work has waned by the time you log off. What was it you were supposed to look into?

Was that snark in my boss’s voice? Were they talking about me before I logged on? Do I fit in here? Am I any good at this job?

Next thing you know, you’re idly messing around online when a text comes in from the person who rolled their eyes. “You okay? You seemed out of it at the meeting.” You ignore it. But your mind doesn’t. It’s busy composing possible replies. The full spectrum from passive-aggressive to career imperiling. Eventually you pick up your phone. What will you text back?

This is how self-defeating spirals start and how they gather speed. Let’s break down the moving parts:

  1. A circumstance places a big question on the table—about identity, belonging, or adequacy: You’re new at work. You want to succeed and belong, but you wonder . . . That question looms, latent and inactive, but present.
  1. A “bad” thing happens: Your boss is a little snarky.
  1. That question gets triggered: You read the room for answers, drawing negative inferences from ambiguous evidence. You’re distracted from the task at hand. Your pessimistic hypothesis becomes more entrenched.
  1. You act on that pessimistic hypothesis, making matters worse.

Maybe you send that colleague a snarky text back. And what do you know: When you see them a few days later, they’re cold to you.

Now you aren’t talking. Maybe you flub that assignment your boss gave you, and they lose confidence in you. Fast-forward a year and you’re at a new job. Tensions are emerging with the new coworkers. Or are they? How will this story end? Do you have any control over it?

When a core question is unsettled, it functions like a lens through which you see the world.

Yes, you do. We all do. Negative spirals or feedback loops like these aren’t inevitable. In fact, there are small things we can do both for ourselves and for others to nip them in the bud—and prevent catastrophic outcomes months and years into the future. Better yet, there are ways we can launch positive spirals—dramatically increasing our chances of future happiness, success, and flourishing. The very same processes can either propel us upward or pull us down.

To understand how all this is possible, let’s get more precise about sequences like 1–4 above. There are three key concepts at play: “core questions” (number 1), meaning making or “construal” (numbers 2 and 3), and “calcification” (number 4). Think of these as “the three Cs” of spirals—whether positive or negative.

Core questions. There are the fundamental questions all of us face, at one time or another. For example: Who am I? Do I belong? Am I enough? I think of these questions as “defining” because they help define you and your life: your sense of self, what relationships you’ll have, and whether you’ll be able to do and be the things you aspire to. There might be long stretches when you don’t think about a given question much because it’s settled for you then. But at critical junctures specific questions flare up, unsettle and preoccupy you. Then they begin to shape what you see and how you act.

Construal. It’s natural to think that we have an unfiltered view of the world. That light hits your eyes and you just see what’s out there. But it’s more that we read the world, interpret it, drawing inferences based on what’s already in our heads. We pick up on themes that seem relevant or important to us, not noticing or screening out other details.

A friend once told me of an ingenious class demonstration that helped her begin to understand this process. A professor split the class in two and then spoke to the first half alone, telling them of his love for travel and a recent trip to Libya. Next, he spoke to the second half about shopping and how hard it was to find the right size shoe. Last, he brought the class together and said a single word. He asked the students to write it down. Students in the first group wrote, “Tripoli.” Those in the second wrote, “Triple E.”

Construal is like a kind of focus. As you look out at the social scene, what snaps to attention? If you’re anything like me, one of the most powerful guides is whatever could pose a risk to you, could threaten you. If you’re walk­ing through a forest where a tiger is said to prowl, you might hear that tiger in every rustle of leaves, see it in every sway of reeds. But in the social world, we don’t all face the same threats. That’s why when you’re new at work and nervous about your place you might hear snark in your boss’s voice, but not if it’s your old friend.

When a core question is unsettled for a person, it functions like a lens through which you see the world. We seek answers that can help us resolve that question. Is it true? we ask. Are my doubts and fears well founded? Then, if a “bad” thing happens, it can seem like proof of your negative hypothesis. We aren’t neutral observers on the lookout for evidence one way or the other. We’re in the grip of confirmation bias, attuned to evidence that corroborates our preconceived theory, even if it’s the tiniest thing.

Calcification. Calcification happens when our negative thoughts and feelings get entrenched—often as a consequence of our own actions. You have a bad date and think, Am I unlovable? Will I be alone forever? Pretty soon your next date isn’t going well either. Rinse and repeat long enough, and you’re stuck in a romantic rut.

When you start to look, you can see spirals everywhere. You fail an important math test. You think you can’t succeed, and stop going to class. You feel sick from a treatment designed to help you overcome an illness. You think it means your illness is especially strong and resistant and so avoid treatment. You have a fight with your kids. You think you’re a “bad parent,” and then yell at them even more the next time. This is self-sabotage, and one step at a time it costs us our achievements, our health, our relationships, and our well-being.

Spiraling up

Yet if our struggles arise, in part, from the inferences we draw, we have an opportunity. In my work, my colleagues and I identify early moments where people could go one way or the other. By understanding the questions that come up at critical junctures, we can offer people better ways to think through challenges—ways that can help them spiral up, instead of down.

That’s what we call “wise” interventions: graceful ways to offer people good answers to the questions that define our lives. It sure can seem like magic that 21 minutes could improve marriage a year later; that a one-page letter could keep kids out of jail; that a string of postcards could cut suicide rates by half over two years; or that an hour-long reflection on belonging in the first year of college could improve life satisfaction and career success a decade later. But this—this is ordinary magic.

Negative spirals or feedback loops aren’t inevitable. There are things we can do both for ourselves and for others to nip them in the bud.

In my first year of college, I was biking back through campus one lovely fall day when I saw a large group of fellow students gathered enthusiastically around a truck from the California burger chain In-N-Out. Maybe they craved a taste of home. But in Michigan, where I was from, there are no In-N-Outs. I’d never heard of it. Feeling excluded from the burger party, I biked off in a huff to eat my lunch in the dining hall alone. I remember thinking, I’m not standing in line for a burger!

What was my problem?

As an 18-year-old, I certainly didn’t want to think of myself as feeling that I did not belong in college. And I definitely didn’t want to think that an In-N-Out truck could trigger that feeling. How ridiculous that would be. Who thinks they don’t belong because of a burger truck?

It was ridiculous. After my brother experienced a particularly mysterious romantic disaster, it’s something we christened a “tifbit”—tiny fact, big theory. Of course not knowing about In-N-Out didn’t mean I didn’t belong in college. But that’s the point. For looking back now, I know the truth is I was homesick. I felt so far from home and all the people I knew and loved. So I wondered, Will I make friends in California? Will I fit in? Seeing all those classmates crowded together, eager to get lunch from a place I’d never even heard of, just triggered those anxieties.

With wisdom and kindness and a little distance, we can laugh at ourselves in situations like these. But we should pay attention. For beneath every tifbit is a real question, and it’s almost always a reasonable one. Big responses to small experiences can help us see what lies beneath the surface. For a tifbit is never just a tiny fact. It’s a clue to the bigger questions that define our lives.

With a little prompt, I could have known that almost everyone feels homesick at first in college, that we’re all in some sense far from home, even the kids from California, that everyone was trying to find new communities. Maybe then I would have joined the line at the In-N-Out truck. I could have asked someone to tell me what In-N-Out was. Why do they love it? What is “animal style”?

I’m sure they would have been glad to share. I know I would have had a better lunch. And maybe I would have made a friend, too.

Excerpted from Ordinary Magic copyright © 2025 by Gregory M. Walton. Used by permission of Harmony Books, an imprint of Random House, a division of Penguin Random House LLC, New York. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher.


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Comments

  • By SamoyedFurFluff 2025-09-1418:049 reply

    As a person with long experiences in trauma responses, I see this sort of behavior pattern everywhere. There’s so much “trust your gut!!” advice when the gut can be deeply wrong especially when it comes to identifying interpersonal threats. We don’t educate people in how to process their feelings in a healthy manner and to differentiate what they feel is happening and how they should behave. This results in anything like saying someone has “bad vibes” to be a reason to exclude them, to actively covering for someone with a known pattern of harming people simply because they are charming.

    • By Waterluvian 2025-09-1419:254 reply

      I think a big part of maturing professionally is how I’ve gotten a better handle on not trusting my gut.

      He’s here to take my job. The VP knows him and hired him directly. There’s so many signals each week that say I’m right. He’s trying to take credit for a decade of my hard work. He’s going to exploit me and everyone will believe him and not me.

      The more likely reality: he’s new here and I’ve been here for a decade. He was hired to basically replicate my success for sibling teams. He’s feeling immense pressure. He’s probably terrified of failing. I probably make him feel threatened. My defensive posture makes this worse. I give him signals all the time that he probably reads as me wanting him to fail or not liking him.

      • By Aurornis 2025-09-1421:314 reply

        > He’s here to take my job. The VP knows him and hired him directly. There’s so many signals each week that say I’m right. He’s trying to take credit for a decade of my hard work. He’s going to exploit me and everyone will believe him and not me.

        I think this is where it’s important to know yourself.

        If you’re having a constant stream of anxiety inducing thoughts and light paranoia, learning how to silence those and introduce a more objective view is helpful.

        It can be taken too far, though. I had a friend whose company was showing all of the warning signs of financial problems, yet he was on a positivity kick and chose to substitute an “everything works out eventually” mentality. Instead, he rode the company right into their inevitable shutdown and missed some good opportunities to take other jobs along the way because he thought ignoring his gut was the right thing to do.

        • By Waterluvian 2025-09-1421:371 reply

          Yeah absolutely! That’s the challenge I’ve seen with anxiety (I’m painting with a broad brush here, and I’m no authority). You can’t outright disable the smoke alarms because sometimes they’re actually working.

          • By mdallastella 2025-09-1422:581 reply

            That's the difference between functional and disfunctional anxaety. The trick is to figure out which is which.

            • By Loughla 2025-09-1423:261 reply

              I am incapable of knowing which is which.

              The problem is my rate of correct anxiety guesses is too high. I'm right a lot. But the ridiculous stuff sneaks in as well. This leads to me being constantly anxious and just hating my professional life.

              How to fix? Sweet Lord in heaven. How to fix?

              • By aGHz 2025-09-151:571 reply

                Keep an anxiety log for a few months. In my experience, this feeling of correctness is a retrospective impression that relies heavily on confirmation bias, and in reality is nowhere near that high. Either way, a concrete log will confirm or deny it.

                If it's truly correct, then I'd say it's not anxiety and that you're probably more attuned to subtle cues. You can learn to pay conscious attention to these cues, evaluate them, and decide strategically if you want to act on them. The idea is to keep your advantage without the negative emotional reaction.

                If it's not that accurate, having proof can help you internalize that you're just going through some particular emotional process, without according it any undue weight. Having let go of that, you can start picking up mechanical tricks for anxiety management, like breathing techniques.

                • By mdallastella 2025-09-156:26

                  ^^^ This ^^^

                  Also, a CBT (Cognitive behavioral therapy) with a professional helps a lot.

        • By projektfu 2025-09-1513:481 reply

          You can respond positively here and still hedge your bet. The attitude of "The Show Must Go On" is perfectly reasonable, but you can still circulate your resume and take steps to avoid burnout. You can even ask a potential opportunity if they will be interested if you do your best to save the other company and join later. But you need to be grounded in reality.

          • By Aurornis 2025-09-1514:15

            Exactly right, but denying that gut feeling and ignoring the signs is not the right choice.

        • By roenxi 2025-09-1510:311 reply

          Even then shutting down the anxiety and paranoia is a good idea. You're friend didn't know how to process reality without feeling negative, maybe. But it can be done and they should probably learn how to do that. A calm & confident person can still see if a problem is coming, the real world isn't determined by the feelings of the viewer but by actual evidence present and a very fine sliver of basic world modelling. The difference is a well grounded person will just note it and feel pretty good about the whole process as they brush dust of the resume and start job hunting. Did their best, had a good time, made some friends, exciting new opportunities, etcetera.

          Nobody has to be a pessimist to make accurate forecasts. It doesn't even help. The more your emotions and personality influence the forecast the worse a forecast it is, the future does not rewarp itself because the viewer feels positive or negative.

          • By Aurornis 2025-09-1513:36

            > Even then shutting down the anxiety and paranoia is a good idea. You're friend didn't know how to process reality without feeling negative, maybe.

            No, the way to “process” it was to start looking for new jobs, which would have avoided the completely avoidable employment and income gap.

        • By nine_k 2025-09-152:35

          If the friend was ignoring his gut feeling, what objective instruments did he use instead?

          If none, wasn't it was just choosing one gut feeling over another gut feeling?

      • By leptons 2025-09-1419:461 reply

        >He’s here to take my job. The VP knows him and hired him directly. There’s so many signals each week that say I’m right.

        In one situation for me, this was exactly the case. It became more clear as each week went by. It was a "bro" situation between the C-level and the new hire, and the C-level was a "30 under 30" so there was a high school mentality about it.

        • By mikert89 2025-09-1420:361 reply

          You can almost never win this situation, I have seen funded startups literally go under because of friendships and incorrect attribution of who did what.

          • By awesome_dude 2025-09-1422:54

            Ah, the true sign of a "team" - credit being apportioned...

            The problem isn't one person being over looked, it's that one person is being praised.

            We all make contributions that we feel are noteworthy, but when someone else's noteworthy contributions are highlighted we then have to ask, why theirs and not ours.

      • By jmkni 2025-09-1519:281 reply

        My "gut" is regularly way off.

        I've lost count of the amount of times I've been driving to work thinking "oh shit I suck at my job I'm defo getting fired" to then be told " You're doing a good job keep it up"

        Other time I think I'm doing a good job when everyone is actually very pissed off at me

        • By hellojesus 2025-09-1615:56

          This is my every day. "I suck and am worthless; I have no idea why I haven't been terminated yet." And this regularly builds to, "I've never achieved anything in life and, based on my past performance, likely never will. I probably should just kill myself now to save the trouble of doing it later."

          I have two young kids though, so my wife thinks that's a bad idea.

      • By BobbyTables2 2025-09-1511:55

        Good points.

        I’ve also never worked at a company that had enough long term thinking to train up replacements. Several would only cut entire departments and/or only do layoffs.

        So there isn’t really any point about worrying about being replaced (:>

    • By andrewflnr 2025-09-1418:511 reply

      But you also get disasters when people ignore their gut/"vibes" and try to do the "rational" thing based on more easily nameable evidence. The gut is not reliable, but it is a model that's trained on a lot of data and shouldn't be ignored. As usual there are no easy answers.

      • By SamoyedFurFluff 2025-09-1423:002 reply

        Frankly being able to point to specific behaviors that trigger vibes is something that comes easily to me as someone who, again, had to work through identifying trauma responses and reacting accordingly. It’s just a skill I think more people would benefit from picking up. I respond really poorly when I don’t feel understood, but I also have a tendency to be vague on details so it is normal for me to get misunderstood. Recognizing this is useful because I can use my gut frustration as an indicator, not that whoever I’m talking to is a moron or are intentionally bad faith misinterpreting me, but that I may be lacking clarity.

        • By whstl 2025-09-1511:08

          100% this.

          Some people are indeed very good at picking up on specific behaviours. The problem is that requires maturity and self reflection, so it's not something you learn in a day.

          The lesson here should be that trusting one's gut might be good, but acting out on it is bad. Don't spiral. Don't confront the possible charlatan. Don't react on your gut the second after the other guy stole your credit.

        • By andrewflnr 2025-09-150:07

          Strong agree that more people should have that skill. I've tried to get better at it but I'm probably still pretty meh.

          I think good emotional regulation stuff like this would ideally be taught starting in kindergarten along with "don't hit your classmates". Maybe in a better time.

    • By norome 2025-09-158:08

      The problem with "trust your gut" is that intuition is a skill which needs to be honed. Everyone has different levels of blockage to being genuinely in touch with their "gut". I think some people are more naturally synthetic thinkers and already live in a more body-guided way. For the walking heads like most of us here on HN we would need to spend time re-learning how to calibrate the body to give precise readings. So the advice needs some caveats.

    • By to11mtm 2025-09-1419:33

      > There’s so much “trust your gut!!” advice when the gut can be deeply wrong especially when it comes to identifying interpersonal threats

      This actually happened to me professionally.

      A while back I was in a spot where for lots of good reasons, I decided I needed a 'reboot' of things; I had spent a lot of time listening to 'bad advice' and getting screwed over by bad people, and tried to have a bit of a clean slate.

      I wound up finding a new job and a new girlfriend. Both felt weirdly stressful but I foolishly assumed it was just because they were both new things to me and I was 'out of my comfort zone'.

      What I later discovered, was the 'boss' at my new job had actually tried to boast to certain people that he was trying to get me to quit, because he never wanted me on the team (He was sick for my first interview, and the person above him told him to hire me.)

      He'd pull stunts like 'Oh I'm just gonna pull you into this meeting about our Crystal reports' (I was still new there and only knew that 'they existed in our legacy system') and then at the start of the meeting just a couple hours later, tried to claim that I was the subject matter expert on our Crystal reports! (Thankfully, I did use what little down-time I had, to do some basic digging and was able to at least speak to a potential solution to the problem they wanted to solve...)

      Any time I wanted to get moved off the 'Support team' I would be given some seemingly impossible task to 'prove myself'; at one point I created a modular UI Frontend where different modules as ASP.NET MVC sites had backend logic to 'register' themselves with the main presentation service; thus delivering the ask, but he never even looked at a line of code.

      And yeah they were a 'charmer'. He hoodwinked the whole board with empty promises and when he was finally found out (toxic behavior and all, the whole dev team had a 'group therapy' session or two b/c most folks were mistreated by him on some level) none of the code he produced ever really saw the light of day...

      Couple that with partner that wasn't real, just using me to not feel lonely while her actual partner was busy in premed...

      I suppose the irony being, that 'fake' partner is now a technical writer, working at the same company where the director who got me hired at the job with the shitty boss... (No that 'partner' didn't work at the place I worked at, but it's still just crazy as far as coincidences...)

    • By watwut 2025-09-157:35

      I had opposite issue, again and again. "My gut" was actually correct again and again. I ignored it because if trying to be rational and objective. The gut was a lot more correct at identifying interpersonal threats and bad actors.

    • By Aurornis 2025-09-1421:292 reply

      > We don’t educate people in how to process their feelings in a healthy manner and to differentiate what they feel is happening and how they should behave. This results in anything like saying someone has “bad vibes” to be a reason to exclude them, to actively covering for someone with a known pattern of harming people simply because they are charming

      In recent years the workplaces I’ve been involved with have actually had significant efforts to educate people to make overcome bias and override their feelings in decision making, but to be honest the outcomes haven’t been great.

      When you forbid people from trusting their judgment and demand they use a shared, objective criteria instead, the grifters take notice. They become better at emulating the objective criteria than anyone else, because gaming that system is their goal and you just laid out a perfect roadmap for them to do it.

      Of the few very bad hires I’ve had to work with in the past decade, all of them came with “bad vibes” during the interview process. They all had the right credentials and knew how to say the right things, though. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had taken classes or paid for coaching for how to act during interviews because what we got once they were hired didn’t match anything on their resume or that they claimed during interviews.

      There is no spot on the committee-approved hiring rubric to indicate that the candidate was rude in their communication and left everyone feeling drained and in a bad mood after every interaction, though. But hey, they aced those LeetCode problems and they have FAANG on their resume, so we must focus on that.

      I clearly remember people being scolded for raising concerns about the person that didn’t fit into the rigid hiring criteria that were supposed to eliminate our biases.

      In most cases in my adult life where I’ve been instructed to ignore my gut feeling and substitute some alternate metric as my decision making guidance, I’ve regretted it later.

      • By whstl 2025-09-1511:201 reply

        Interesting. My criteria for hiring is the opposite of this, and I wouldn't have it any other way. If someone is technically great but combative in an interview, they get a "strong no" from me.

        It's nothing big: especially in a startup environment there will be situations where the product manager or another engineer will ask for changes, and I expect people to adapt, or at least to argue the merits of the change. Make no mistake, a lot of those people WERE able to adapt code-wise, and I was even praising them, but they did the changes while voicing concerns and complaining that my task "was badly defined, since I didn't tell them about possible future changes". One got very annoyed verbally at a small requisite change, even though we still had only used half the scheduled time, but we were almost finished with everything.

        And this HAS paid off! This happened rarely, but more than half of those people got incredibly triggered by their rejections, and a couple even demanded talking directly with the team. In one case, we had someone coming to the company. It wasn't a lot, I must have interviewed over 200-300 people there, but it was significant.

        • By Aurornis 2025-09-1513:37

          > Interesting. My criteria for hiring is the opposite of this, and I wouldn't have it any other way. If someone is technically great but combative in an interview, they get a "strong no" from me.

          Well exactly, but that’s “vibes” in the view of an extremely objective hiring criteria that tries to eliminate anyone’s subjective feelings about the candidate.

      • By SamoyedFurFluff 2025-09-1422:561 reply

        I actually never prescribed a specific solution on how to accomplish the education at all. This is kinda what I mean when I say folks don’t really process their feelings they act like what they feel is happening is true.

        • By Aurornis 2025-09-1514:14

          I know you didn’t prescribe anything, but I provided a real-world example from experience to demonstrate what happens in the real world.

          Ideas always sound better in the abstract when you avoid talking about what happens when they’re implemented.

    • By wtbdbrrr 2025-09-1418:541 reply

      The problem is identifying what is your gut vs what your brain was wired for over years and decades. It echoes, and this is an abstraction, consumption and how consumption made those crowds and individuals feel, that appeared as having the most fun.

      a) you don't see the doses of amphetamines and other drugs these people have consumed or are consuming regularly

      but more importantly:

      b) your gut is disturbed by what you eat and your brain by what you perceive, which is filtered by your personality and current/past state of mind. just a little of x and it's hard to trust a feeling that comes from a place of mixed feelings, some of which are more obviously bad than others, some of the time.

      c) your peripheral gets your subconscious goat all the time.

      people are bad at trusting their gut. highly intelligent and or educated people have especially grand issues with that because intuitive heuristics and intuitive cognitive logic get such a bad reputation while nobody ever (I'm exaggerating) speaks or writes about exceptions to common fallacies and bias, which are usually only presented to justify gears of economic rationales that tend to completely ignore side-effects (because "long-termisms", even before the term was coined), often enough due to irrationally high thresholds of relativity aka p-values.

      And you start of with

      > There’s so much “trust your gut!!” advice when the gut can be deeply wrong

      and end on

      > This results in anything like saying someone has “bad vibes” to be a reason to exclude them, to actively covering for someone with a known pattern of harming people simply because they are charming.

      on purpose. Please, at least try to sound non-manipulative.

      PS: clattering teeth

    • By coolThingsFirst 2025-09-1513:231 reply

      Here is a yardstick that I've found works really well when trusting your gut: if and only if your general mood is peaceful and calm can you trust your gut.

      Otherwise it doesn't work, that knowledge is blocked off by anxiety, fear, anger etc.

      Never once has this failed me

      • By peepee1982 2025-09-1513:38

        I agree, but this does not work for people who are unable to get into a peaceful and calm mood ever, and they aren't even "trusting" their gut, their view of the world is completely distorted by it.

        Again, not disagreeing. But if you're suffering from (C)PTSD, that advice might backfire by packing on even more feelings of shame onto your shoulders.

    • By h2zizzle 2025-09-1614:43

      Steve Jobs.

      That's the in media res start to this reply. Let me go back to the beginning: our major societal vices seem to replicate in ways that we feel are benign, but that may feed the mindsets that allow major Bad Things to happen. For example, the polarized racial division that define(d/s) American life echoes in fights over which sports team, which SWE technology, which OS is "better" (or, rather, what is the default from which any deviation is anathema).

      Back to Steve. A celebrated visionary who was noted for his "reality distortion field", wherein his perception took precedence over reality. A good thing, because it pushed Apple to innovate in ways most didn't think possible or practical. Right? Well, it should also sound familiar to anyone who has to deal with the headache of "fake news" (both disinformation and the people who proclaim any news they dislike to be so), propaganda, advertising. All of these are forms of putting the gut on a pedestal, and/or are targeted appeals to vibes rather than reason.

      It's a bit "Broken Windows", but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. We should be careful about the heuristics and patterns of thought that we allow to become so common that they fall from consciousness.

      (The computer ate my original reply, so I had to do it over, and I had to do it quick so it wasn't as good.)

  • By truelson 2025-09-1418:556 reply

    A key part of breaking cycles for me has been noticing when my default mode network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_mode_network) or DMN is being activated, being able to stop, do a series of 4-2-6 breaths to activate the parasympathetic nervous system and focus on what I'm doing in the present. The DMN is the little chatterbox "daemon" always talking in the background. Learning to consistently notice it and handle it is liberating.

    This is not easy, but I've found working on this every day is better than any form of traditional meditation or "mindfulness" work. It truly is work, like exercise, and the point is not how long you do it, but noticing more and more when my DMN engages and I can return to breathing and reactivating my parasympathetic nervous system.

    I can't stress enough what a change occurs after two months of focusing on this.

    • By softwaredoug 2025-09-1419:524 reply

      Anyone who has a restless dog in the evenings can see DMN create anxiety.

      Like many dogs, my dog gets bored and looks for something to bark at. He scans out the window like I scan social media. He’s got extra energy that seems to need to go somewhere, and that somewhere seems to be looking out the window scanning for threats, barking, sounding meaner than he actually is.

      It’s like he manufactures anxiety out of nothing else to do.

      • By brazukadev 2025-09-1420:47

        > Like many dogs, my dog gets bored and looks for something to bark at.

        This is the best analogy I've heard about social media, hope to remember it to use when needed.

      • By uncircle 2025-09-156:371 reply

        Great analogy with your dog. I noticed that when I’m doing the washing up, my DMN, for some reason, takes me to ruminate negatively about my relationships, and I constantly have to return my attention to something else. No wonder I’ve come to loathe it and let my dishes pile up.

        I find it can be a great tool for creativity, but needs to be directed or at least given some task to chew on; then I can close my eyes in a half nap and all kinds of interesting associations and ideas bubble up.

        EDIT: that said, the default mode network should not be unjustly demonized. Its purpose is crucial for reprioritising our goals based on what is important to us at any given time, and the problem with modern living is that we never have enough idle time to ourselves, always distracted by our smartphones, and in the long run it is easy to lose sight over what drives us forward. A simple exercise, harder than it should be for most, is to be idle yet undistracted for 30 minutes. You’ll soon get into a “big picture” view of your life, what is missing, what you wish for yourself; into a kind of goal-oriented view that only kicks in in this mode.

        • By krzat 2025-09-158:00

          > that said, the default mode network should not be unjustly demonized.

          Yeah, scrolling tiktok is pretty good at silencing the DMN. This practice does not seem to be particularly beneficial.

      • By Sammi 2025-09-1512:35

        This comment actually made me read it slower as it progressed, because I felt a feeling of awe welling up of how insightful it is.

      • By _fw 2025-09-1420:41

        Holy shit.

        You’ve just changed my perspective on my life (and my spaniel’s).

        Thank you Doug.

    • By adiabatichottub 2025-09-1419:101 reply

      To add to OP: It helps to pay attention to physical symptoms of stress as well. If you find yourself constantly tensing your jaw or your shoulders, take a moment to focus on relaxing your muscles and breathing. Overcoming negative automatic responses just takes consistent practice.

      To further add: being able to acknowledge an emotional response to a situation and then divert to objective thinking is a superpower. Sustained anger, sadness, or fear will quickly drain your energy and leave you unable to act with intent.

      • By oriel 2025-09-1419:24

        To add to this further, I've had great success following The Body Keeps Score; seeing it as a repository of past stress and trauma.

        As part of this, I've been able to locate and work through stress and trauma activations in my body, where normally they'd cluster around my head and never actually get resolved.

        Every time I go to work out, I pay attention to what areas of my body arent responding, are activating oddly; and I'll work to strengthen the foot-to-neck paths. It started with a back injury and has resulted in me finding I needed wide foot shoes and changing my entire stance, posture, complex movements, etc.

        Some times I find it odd that I don't have that daemon running around yelling, because hes now activated in my body, and all I have to do is stretch.

    • By galleywest200 2025-09-1420:09

      > but I've found working on this every day is better than any form of traditional meditation or "mindfulness" work

      This is mindfulness work, what you just described.

    • By neuronic 2025-09-159:201 reply

      For anyone wondering like me:

      > What is the 4-2-6 breathing technique?

      > The 4-2-6 breathing technique is a calming exercise. First, inhale slowly for four seconds. Then, hold your breath for two seconds. Finally, exhale slowly and steadily for six seconds. This technique helps by making your exhale longer than your inhale, which is a signal to your body to relax. It's particularly useful when you need to settle your mind before sleep or if you're feeling anxious and need to steady your nerves.

      Source: https://www.calm.com/blog/breathing-exercises-for-anxiety

      • By IAmBroom 2025-09-1513:00

        And there's nothing magical about that set of numbers. I learned it as 5-5-5-2, but in the end it's about using a pattern to regulate your breathing, and - I believe - to force your attention to counting breaths, an anxiety-free exercise, allowing it to lower its hyper-vigilant awake state.

    • By truelson 2025-09-1419:06

      In addition, being able to see when dopamine is rising, feel it, label it, engage your parasympathetic nervous system and know that a dopamine spike is temporary, the craving for TV, news, sweets, social media, or other will pass... that is liberation.

      We live in a culture where everything is gunning for our attention, trying to engage a dopamine loop and "relieve" us from dealing with often important but difficult emotions just below the surface. We have to train ourselves to deal with this environment.

      It's not mindfulness training, it's how to operate our brains in the modern world.

    • By ursula_gren 2025-09-1421:16

      Do you have any resources that helped you come to that realization or helped make habitual the process of noticing your DMN is being activated?

      I've had varying success with other "mindfulness" work and meditation like you have mentioned that I employ to help with spinning/stewing/looping thought cycles. The process you are describing seems like it may be more helpful so I'm curious to learn more and try something new.

  • By petercooper 2025-09-1416:431 reply

    Your mind doesn’t, though. It’s still ruminating. Was that snark in my boss’s voice? Were they talking about me before I logged on?

    I wonder if some of this could also be related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_attribution_bias where some people simply see ambiguous or benign behavior they don't like and interpret it as hostile.

    • By makeitdouble 2025-09-1417:161 reply

      I read it as just being context dependent. The "Tripoli" vs "Triple E" bit in the article was to me another anecdote on how we resolve ambiguity based on what we have in our mind's stack at the moment:

      > A friend once told me of an ingenious class demonstration that helped her begin to understand this process. A professor split the class in two and then spoke to the first half alone, telling them of his love for travel and a recent trip to Libya. Next, he spoke to the second half about shopping and how hard it was to find the right size shoe. Last, he brought the class together and said a single word. He asked the students to write it down. Students in the first group wrote, “Tripoli.” Those in the second wrote, “Triple E.”

      • By normie3000 2025-09-1421:242 reply

        I'm intrigued where this story originated. What country measures shoes in bra sizes?

        • By drdec 2025-09-1421:39

          Anyone who does crosswords in the US knows that "triple e" is a shoe width.

        • By metabagel 2025-09-1422:06

          EEE is is a shoe size modifier in the U.S. - triple wide.

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