You’re not burnt out, you’re existentially starving

2025-12-2118:28355413neilthanedar.com

“Those who have a ‘Why’ to live, can bear with almost any ‘How’.” ― Viktor Frankl quoting Friedrich Nietzsche, Man’s Search for Meaning Let me guess: Viktor Frankl calls this feeling the “existential…

“Those who have a ‘Why’ to live, can bear with almost any ‘How’.”

― Viktor Frankl quoting Friedrich Nietzsche, Man’s Search for Meaning

Let me guess:

  1. Your life is going pretty darn well by any objective metric.
    • Nice place to live. More than enough stuff. Family and friends who love you.
  2. But you’re tired, burnt out, and more.
    • It feels like you’re stuck in the ordinary when all you want to do is chase greatness.

Viktor Frankl calls this feeling the “existential vacuum” in his famous book Man’s Search for Meaning. Frankl was a psychologist who survived the Holocaust, and in this book he explains that the inmates who survived with him found and focused on a higher purpose in life, like caring for other inmates and promising to stay alive to reconnect with loved ones outside the camps. But these survivors also struggled in their new lives after the war, desperately searching for meaning when every decision was no longer life or death.

Frankl realized that this existential anxiety is not a nuisance to eliminate, but actually an important signal pointing us towards our need for meaning. Similarly, while Friedrich Nietzsche would argue that life inherently lacks meaning, he’d also implore us to zoom out and find our highest purpose now:

This is the most effective way: to let the youthful soul look back on life with the question, ‘What have you up to now truly loved, what has drawn your soul upward, mastered it and blessed it too?’… for your true being lies not deeply hidden within you, but an infinite height above you, or at least above that which you commonly take to be yourself.

— Friedrich Nietzsche, Untimely Meditations, 1874

Nihilists get both Nietzsche and YOLO wrong. Neither mean that you give up. Instead, both mean that your efforts are everything.

So when you get those Sunday Scaries, the existential anxiety that your time is ending and the rest of your life is spent working for someone else, the answer isn’t escapism.

Instead, visualize your ideal self, the truest childhood dream of who you wanted to be when you grew up. What would that person be doing now? Go do that thing!

When facing the existential vacuum, there’s only one way out — up, towards your highest purpose.

On a 0-10 scale, how happy did you feel when you started working this Monday?

Why wasn’t your answer a 10?

You got the great job. You built the startup. You took the vacations. But that’s not what you really needed. You kept coming back Monday after Monday realizing you were doing the same job again.

So you tried to improve yourself. You optimized your morning routine. You perfected your productivity system. You bought a sleep mask and mouth tape. Yet you’re still dragging yourself out of bed each Monday morning tired and unmotivated.

We’re optimizing for less suffering instead of more meaning. We’ve confused comfort with fulfillment. And we’re getting really, really good at it. Millennials are the first generation in history to expect our jobs to provide a higher meaning beyond survival. That’s a good thing. It means that the essentials of life are nearly universally available now.

But, as I write in my book Positive Politics:

The last two hundred years of progress pulled most of the world’s population over the poverty line. The next hundred years is about lifting everyone above the abundance line… Positive Politics seeks to democratize this abundance.

Those of us who have already achieved abundance in our own lives now have two responsibilities:

  1. Spread that abundance to as many other people as possible.
  2. Find something more meaningful to do than chase more stuff.

The existential vacuum is a widespread phenomenon of the twentieth century

― Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning

When I was a kid, I knew exactly what I wanted to do — the most important job in the world. And I wasn’t afraid to tell you either. At five years old, I would talk your ear off about training to be goalie for the St. Louis Blues. By seven, it was astronaut for NASA. By eleven, it was President of the United States. Then middle school hit, I got made fun of more than a few times, and that voice went silent.

After three startups, three nonprofits, and especially three kids knocked the imposter syndrome out of me, I spent a lot of time training my inner voice to get loud again. And what I heard reinforced what I knew all along — that my highest purpose is way above where I commonly take myself now.

Imposter syndrome can be a good thing. That external voice saying “this is not you” may actually be telling you the truth. I got into the testing lab industry to save our family business. Fifteen years and three startups later, I had become “the lab expert” to the world. But I cringed at that label. First, there was no room to grow. I had already done it. I didn’t want to be eighty and still running labs. Second, and most importantly, I knew that my skills could be used for much more than money.

I’d love to say I transformed overnight, but really it took 5+ years from 2020 to 2025 for me to fully embody my new identity. You can see it in my writing, which became much more ambitious in 2020, when I relaunched this site and started blogging consistently. That led to my World’s Biggest Problems project, which convinced me that Positive Politics is the #1 solution we need now!

There are two key components to my highest mission now:

That means consistently chasing my highest purpose — helping ambitious optimists get into politics! After nearly a decade of doing this behind the scenes as a political volunteer and advisor, 2025 was the first year where I went full-time in politics. Leading MCFN and publishing Positive Politics at the same time was a ton of work. But nothing energizes me more than fighting two of the biggest battles in the world now — anticorruption and Positive Politics!

I love politics because it’s full of meta solutions — solutions that create more solutions. My Positive Politics Accelerator is a classic example — recruiting and training more ambitious optimists into politics will lead to them making positive political change at all levels of government. But I’ve also tackled challenges like independent testing with startups and led a nonprofit to drive investigative journalism.

There are so many paths to positive impact, including politics, startups, nonprofits, medicine, law, education, science, engineering, journalism, art, faith, parenting, mentorship, and more! Choose the path that both best fits you now and is pointed towards your long-term highest purpose.

I woke up today so excited to get to work thinking it was Monday morning already. Instead of jumping right into it, I spent all morning making breakfast and playing with my kids, then wrote this post. When I’m writing about something personal, 1,000+ words can easily flow for me in an afternoon. This part will be done just in time to go to a nerf battle birthday party with my boys and their friends.

Both the hustle and anti-hustle cultures get it wrong. Working long hours isn’t inherently good or bad. If I really had to count how much I’m “on” vs. doing whatever I want, it’s easy 100+ hours per week. But that includes everything from investigative journalism and operations work for MCFN, social media and speaking events for Positive Politics, reading and writing for my site, and 40+ hours every week with my kids.

I want to help more ambitious optimists chase your highest potential! Whether the best solution is in startups, politics, nonprofits, science, crypto, or some new technology that’s yet to be invented, I’m happy to point you where I think you’ll be most powerful. I’ve thought, written, and worked on many of these ideas in my 15+ year career.

Now with 10+ years of writing for my site and my Positive Politics and World’s Biggest Problems projects, I’ve focused on publicly inspiring more people to take on these challenges too. We should be flexible on how we solve the problems but firm in our resolve to consistently organize people and launch solutions.

As Steve Jobs said, “Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact, and that is everything around you that you call ‘life’ was made up by people that were no smarter than you… You can change it, you can mold it… the most important thing…is to shake off this erroneous notion that life is there and you’re just going to live in it, versus embrace it, change it, improve it, make your mark upon it… Once you learn that, you’ll never be the same again.

Remember how it felt as a young child to openly tell the world about your dream job? Find the work that makes you feel this way and jump on whatever rung of that career ladder you can start now. The pay may be a little lower, but the existential payoff will be exponentially higher for the rest of your life.

You don’t have to go all-in right away! In fact, after a long diet of low existential work, it’s probably best to ease into public work. You can even volunteer one hour or less per week for a political campaign or nonprofit to get started. Pick the smallest first step, and do it. Not in January, now. Do it before the end of the year. And see how different you feel when 2026 starts!

And you don’t have to choose politics like me! Do you have the next great ambitious optimistic science fiction novel in your head? That book could spark movies and movements that positively change millions of lives! Choose the path will inspire and energize you for decades!

What matters most is you go straight towards your highest potential right now. Pause once a month to make sure you’re still on the right track. Stop once a year to triple-check you’re on the right track. But never get off this path towards your highest potential. Anything else will starve you existentially.

When you truly chase your highest potential, everything you thought was burnout will melt away. Because you weren’t suffering from too much work, you were suffering from too little truly important work. Like a boy who thought he was full until dessert arrives, you’ll suddenly find your hunger return!

If you’re sick of politics as usual and ready to change the system, join Positive Politics!


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Comments

  • By yoan9224 2025-12-220:136 reply

    The premise is interesting but feels incomplete. The "Monday morning excitement test" doesn't account for the hedonic treadmill - even meaningful work becomes mundane once your brain adjusts to it.

    Also, many people are genuinely burnt out from overwork, not just existential malaise. When you're juggling demanding work, family responsibilities, and barely have time for basic self-care, the problem isn't finding your "highest purpose" - it's structural.

    That said, I agree that meaning matters. But meaning doesn't always come from work. Sometimes the healthiest thing is treating work as necessary fuel for a meaningful life outside of it - relationships, hobbies, community involvement.

    The "go into politics" solution is fascinating though. Zero-sum games as existential fulfillment feels counterintuitive.

    • By thanedar 2025-12-221:043 reply

      You get off the hedonic treadmill by getting into something deeper like politics.

      I do feel like I'm an example of someone who's juggled marriage, kids, startups, etc. where how I finally got a clean source of sustainable energy was having a part of my life to truly chase my highest potential. And to me that's politics, and specifically anticorruption and Positive Politics.

      Glad that the "go into politics" ideas piqued your interest!

      • By kbutler 2025-12-224:456 reply

        Wow, politics seems the opposite to me. It has the morbid fascination of a train wreck. You can't stop it, you know it's going badly, yet you can't look away.

        Family and building things are much more positive sources of energy to me.

        • By rthrfrd 2025-12-228:201 reply

          That’s because you’ve become so accustomed to politics as tribalism and sports-like entertainment that you’ve completely forgotten why we even started the political systems we have today in the first place. Divestment of power, not accumulation. Serving others, not ourselves. You can still embody those things. But it’s better to admit to ourselves that we aren’t selfless enough to do that, than hide behind a learned helplessness.

          • By whimsicalism 2025-12-2218:08

            I feel that people who are “into politics” as such typically lean in deeper in on the tribalism/‘sports team resembling’ style of engagement.

        • By mlrtime 2025-12-2212:17

          I bet if you stop watching national popular news outlets and instead focus on local politics you'll find them much more tame. Of course this depends on where you live.

          IMO People focus way too much on national politics and not enough on local.

        • By rightbyte 2025-12-229:18

          From the inside it looks different and is noway near as hostile as media and especially the internets make it look like.

        • By nine_k 2025-12-2223:25

          Politics is like sex. Watching it feels quite different from actually taking part.

        • By thanedar 2025-12-2216:13

          Politics can be so much more than elections!

          Focus on one issue and one bill, like you would with a startup MVP.

          You can solve some of these problems in weeks!

          Raising my family and building lasting things for the world are my positive sources of energy too!

          I'm just saying that after 15 years founding three startups, I've found my building instinct works incredibly well in politics!

        • By Throaway198712 2025-12-2214:571 reply

          join a party that you care about. The tides are changing, they always do.

          • By psunavy03 2025-12-2215:521 reply

            A plague on both their houses. Two major cults shouting past each other and a bunch of minor looneybins.

            Both parties would cast me out for heresy for some of my beliefs and opinions. Why volunteer for that?

            • By Throaway198712 2025-12-2520:231 reply

              im in Canada, we have more than 2 parties

              • By dragonwriter 2025-12-2520:261 reply

                In the US we have a couple hundred; structurally, though, only at most two are usually meaningfully competitive at any given time (both locally and nationally, though historically not always the same two in every area as nationally), and which two are nationally conpetitive is very stable (though one of the two has changed at two different times in US history, one of which involved a significant period of only one national competitive party with internal factions.)

                • By Throaway198712 2025-12-2521:16

                  I understand. In Canada we have only had two parties create a federal government. But 5 separate parties have formed government provincially. 5 parties have federal presence. And if we didn't have first-past-the-post voting, we would easily have Greens, NDPs, and others in seats of federal power.

      • By unlikelymordant 2025-12-222:582 reply

        Would you mind expanding on what you do for anticorruption? It has been something ive been thinking about and wanting to get into lately. It seems like complete poison to democracy, and more should be done to bring it to light wherever it occurs

        • By phba 2025-12-2215:21

          A good place to start is OSINT (open source intelligence) for your city/municipality because it requires little commitment, is scoped with regards to complexity and amount of information, and usually risk-free. Gather publicly available information about the companies in your area, who owns/runs them, your city council, any ongoing projects, the processes of funding stuff with public money and so on. Don't bother finding the best collection method or way to structure all the data, just start, you will figure things out on the way. Also be aware of your personal bias, which might make you dismiss important information or affect your judgement.

          The next steps highly depend on where you live. Your HN profile says Australia, so at least safety-wise you are in a better spot. Connect to people in your area (preferrably offline), for example by organizing a local meetup, maybe there is one already. Activities can range from exchanging ideas to spreading awareness in your community to actively going against corrupt affairs. Make sure you know what and who you are up against, or you will have a very bad time.

          Anticorruption is a group effort because it requires a lot of work and often special knowledge (info tech, law, finance, opsec, public relations and propaganda, ...) and, more importantly, a group provides safety from corrupt actors. On your own you will not be able to deal with lawsuits, misinformation, character assassination and worse.

        • By LightBug1 2025-12-2421:18

          I'd argue that the trend - that seems now deeply, deeply embedded - of alternative facts and straight lying is more important. As it opens the door to all manner of corruption.

      • By heyjamesknight 2025-12-2313:47

        I love your “clean source of sustainable energy” metaphor. This is a great example of “eudaimonic” well-being, or the idea of “doing well.”

    • By heyjamesknight 2025-12-220:18

      Hedonic treadmill only applies to hedonia, not the eudaimonia that meaningful work typically brings. “Doing well” doesn’t have the same elastic snap back that “being well” does, and there’s some evidence it can provide a buffer on the hedonic treadmill effect.

    • By johnfn 2025-12-228:072 reply

      > even meaningful work becomes mundane once your brain adjusts to it.

      This seems quite wrong in my experience. Meaningful work stays meaningful and exciting, every single day.

      • By raveren 2025-12-2214:382 reply

        > even meaningful work becomes mundane once your brain adjusts to it.

        Not to demean your experience, but for me (5+ years now of daily grind for one purpose) that statement is very VERY real.

        My thinking is - it's just another one of the struggles of doing real meaningful change - there's recurring, long and arduous timespans where no observable/exciting results manifest and one has to trudge forward.

        If you know how to ease THAT part, please share (I'm begging you lol).

        • By phil21 2025-12-2215:251 reply

          Perhaps it’s also the definition of meaningful work changes for an individual over time?

          What I once found meaningful 20 years ago largely no longer feels that way. Both due to a lack of novelty and personal growth, and seeing how I was so naive regarding the outcomes and future I was supposedly building.

          Those daily grinds back then for purpose were great - but sometimes the purpose never materializes since others (customers, business partners, society as a whole, etc) disagree with that purpose.

          At least that’s how I tend to feel my life largely went. I thought I was building towards a different goal than what ended up happening, which makes me feel I wasted my life. Now it’s questioning whether or not I will ever find something that gives me that sense of purpose again without it ending up being a lie in the end. Why bring my “whole self” into a given task if it’s not going to end up with any sort of mental payback later?

          • By raveren 2025-12-2311:27

            Well in my personal opinion, there's extremely few material goals that have any purpose whatsoever, life is short, matter is ephermal.

            Usually, I find, one has to invest an enormous effort to just find that purpose in the first place. And trying out paths/goals is part of that journey too.

            I know I did a lot of soulsearching, in fact I was privilledged enough to save up for a couple of years to do JUST that, and I can report that it was a resounding success (with a sample size of one!).

            However, as we're discussing this in the context of burnout, it's obvious that having a higher meaning did not take me out of my suffering. I still experience life as any other human being, I just feel like my life is not wasted - and the side effects of always striving for a goal - like focus and discipline - and other virtues - are a pleasant bonus. So I do sincerely think, that having a crystalized idea of my purpose creates a happy life for me.

            There's nothing wrong with NOT having a goal, I just couldn't do it, even though matter IS ephermal, I believe that every action that we take, ultimately does have meaning.

        • By heyjamesknight 2025-12-2313:54

          In Positive Psychology, the science of meaning in life (not of life) breaks meaning down into three dimensions: coherence, significance, and purpose. If your job isn’t affording you significance (because your actions don’t “matter” in your organization) then your ability to find meaning in that work is threatened.

          Your work may have coherence and purpose, but if it doesn’t have significance then it isn’t the source of meaning you thought it was.

      • By mlrtime 2025-12-2212:17

        Certainly so if you are the one defining meaning.

    • By InitialLastName 2025-12-2216:24

      "Politics as a zero-sum game" is a self-fulfilling prophecy that's only true if you see it as "competing over who gets all the power". In a more sympathetic perspective, politics is just how communities self-organize, make decisions and build compromise between the needs and interests of their stakeholders. Especially at the local level (where the feedback path between "make a decision" and "affect peoples' lives" is the shortest and most accessible), that can mostly involve people being available to do the work that needs to happen to build consensus and get anything done done to improve the lives of the community members.

    • By lstevens14 2025-12-2217:08

      I agree that the piece does feel incomplete, but it is a large topic to fully cover in a blog post. The author is stating that with purpose, life is a joy, not a chore. I feel like this is a message that many people need to hear!

    • By zapataband2 2025-12-224:58

      [dead]

  • By jwrallie 2025-12-223:516 reply

    The article started well until it changed from "you" to "I". After that, it felt like a mix of bragging and trying to sell a book.

    I think its OK if some people don't get to live their dream jobs, some dreams have no equivalent in real life, and some people need to do the mundane, boring underground jobs that keep things together.

    • By kubb 2025-12-224:581 reply

      It didn’t catch me in the widely cast net.

      I didn’t match the 1) nice place, 2) family and friends.

      Apparently an ad huh.

      • By thanedar 2025-12-2216:241 reply

        Solve your two problems first! I do think this resonates with a lot of especially YC founders who have broken through 1 and 2 but are missing the most important 3.

        • By kubb 2025-12-2220:08

          Go pay for the book then!

          But founders aren’t a big enough target demographic to make money on I guess.

    • By cpt_sobel 2025-12-228:03

      There's so little meaning (other than "Buy My Book!") in the latter part of the post that I thought I read the same paragraph 20 times

    • By jojobas 2025-12-225:061 reply

      Worse, it's canvassing for a political movement.

      • By thanedar 2025-12-2216:273 reply

        I will keep arguing that canvassing for a political movement is the highest potential thing most Americans could be doing now. I'm not talking about running for office yourself. You don't have to do it full-time. But try it. Focus on one issue and one bill. You could solve a key problem in weeks. See how this changes your life!

        • By aebtebeten 2025-12-2414:54

          If you vote with your feet, you can solve many structural problems with a time investment of only 2-5 years.

        • By jojobas 2025-12-2221:47

          Fine, just don't masquerade your canvassing as something that's supposed to help with your mental health.

        • By LightBug1 2025-12-2421:20

          Depends if you behave like some current canvassers and/or candidates. Of course, I mean those who are straight forward corrupt liars.

          And the problem is there seems to be no shortage of canvassers who'll advocate for such candidates.

          So, your 'highest potential' argument is somewhat poisoned.

    • By thanedar 2025-12-2216:22

      Made some edits last night. But I think the post still stood up 95%+.

      The middle is full of stories of how I failed for years.

      I think I can help you, here's how I failed, then succeeded, you can too!

      And my book is truly the next step.

      If you liked these ~2,000 words, there's 20x more in Positive Politics!

      I specifically believe Positive Politics can best utilize the ambitious optimism of e.g. YC founders to solve the world's biggest problems!

    • By zerofor_conduct 2025-12-224:08

      yes, felt like one long humble brag after that. how tiresome.

  • By marcus_holmes 2025-12-220:589 reply

    Please note that depression != burn-out. If you really can't get out of bed on a Monday morning, can't face the day, or muster any enthusiasm for anything, then you might not need a purpose, you might need medical assistance.

    Be kind to yourselves, people.

    • By anyfoo 2025-12-221:257 reply

      I don’t know. Doctors nowadays (especially in the US, it seems to be less prevalent elsewhere) seem very quick at prescribing medication.

      And while I don’t doubt that there are serious physiological conditions that warrant, even necessitate, medicating, my impression is that the first response to “depression” in general shouldn’t be medication.

      I’ve been depressed in the past, in my 20s even severely. Clinically, you could say. But in the end, every one of those depressive episodes were because something was not right in my life.

      Whether I acknowledged it or not, whether I even realized that there was a problem, once I figured the issues out and took the sometimes very painful and exhausting steps to sort them out, the depression faded away.

      Over time, I’ve become better at introspection to figure out what’s really bugging me, and also in recognizing a budding early depression as warning signs.

      • By oatmeal1 2025-12-226:423 reply

        As someone with treatment resistant depression, it is odd people are against medication. Medication is proven safe and effective for treating depression. Therapy and medication should be used immediately in conjunction because 1. therapy is most effective when paired with medication, and 2. depression is a vicious cycle. The longer someone spends depressed, the more likely they will spiral into deeper depression, isolation, unemployment, etc.

        No one should delay any part of depression treatment.

        • By fastasucan 2025-12-2210:551 reply

          Same for me. Its so odd having an illness, and taking medicine against that illness, and mostly reading an "universal truth" that the medication that helps you is bad someway. As you say, therapy but also getting a better sleep hygiene, better nutrition and exercise is so much easier with medicine.

          • By anyfoo 2025-12-2218:03

            Note what I actually wrote:

            > And while I don’t doubt that there are serious physiological conditions that warrant, even necessitate, medicating, my impression is that the first response to “depression” in general shouldn’t be medication.

            It’s very well possible that you, and the person you answered to, are solidly part of the “needs medication” fraction. I do not believe that medication against depression is bad in general.

        • By afpx 2025-12-2213:32

          I know a surprising number of people who take ibuprofen daily but will avoid stretching and exercising.

        • By KellyCriterion 2025-12-236:56

          Ive read from people having written more than 600-700 applications and are still without _any_ job - and those may have a mortgage.

          How shall "proven and safe medication" help here?

      • By marcus_holmes 2025-12-221:49

        Agree that medication isn't necessarily the answer - mine was therapy not pills. But all of it is still medical assistance. And the medication helped me get started on the therapy, I'm not sure I could have got to a place where the therapy could have helped without it.

        Glad your journey has been positive, well done :)

      • By Retric 2025-12-221:481 reply

        There’s little reason to avoid prescribing medication alongside other approaches. It’s not that meds are the only option or they should be reserved for the most severe cases, it’s people’s reactions are different and there’s no way to tell without trying them. For some people they really do work wonders and you simply don’t know ahead of time.

        Not everyone has a support structure they can count on as they fall apart. So some people just need help to get through a rough period even if a solution isn’t long term viable. When a spouse dies being able to function for the next few months can mean keeping the roof over someone’s head.

        • By shkkmo 2025-12-226:532 reply

          > There’s little reason to avoid prescribing medication alongside other approaches.

          There absolutely are downsides and risks. There is a reason the SSRIs carry a "blackbox" warning for youths due to increased suicide risks. There's a reason they should only be used under supervision of a doctor and need to be tapered off of.

          That is not to say they aren't useful and necessary for some/many people but they aren't and shouldn't be a catch-all treatment.

          • By ryandrake 2025-12-2217:22

            A very specific edge case: If you ever think you might want to become a pilot, even just to fly small airplanes, the FAA still considers ADHD, depression, social anxiety, and other conditions where you are prescribed medication, to be disqualifying. And this is a "have you ever in your life" question on the medical form. So if you're prescribed ADHD medicine, even as a child, I understand that while it's not impossible, you are going to have a major uphill battle if you ever want to fly airplanes.

      • By habinero 2025-12-221:481 reply

        Mm. I'm glad for you that you can just think about your problems harder and get better, but that's not the reality of it for most people with depression.

        Meds don't magically make you happy and they don't magically get you out of fixing the problems in your life. They make it easier and therefore possible to do so. I'd describe it as the crane that lifts up the heavy weight enough for you to shuffle out.

        If you can just think harder about your problems, by all means, do that. But there's zero virtue to rawdogging it when help is available, especially as this can easily lead to an isolation spiral and become deadly.

        • By kovek 2025-12-224:55

          Yes, I believe thinking can be hampered by depression...

      • By fastasucan 2025-12-2210:52

        >I don’t know. Doctors nowadays (especially in the US, it seems to be less prevalent elsewhere) seem very quick at prescribing medication.

        My experience from being a mental-health patient is that things take too much time. For me I struggled with how it seemed like that the society universally had agreed that medication for my condition is bad. Taking medicine doesn't mean that you cant threat your illness in other ways as well, in my experience taking medicine helps you to be able to take the changes you need in life.

      • By godelski 2025-12-221:591 reply

        As someone medicated I actually fully agree with you.

        Depression is also a broad spectrum condition (much like autism). Years ago I watched this lecture by Sapolsky[0] and it really helped. Breaking down the different classifications is really helpful. The SSRIs always made me feel worse, and this (along with a lot of other research) helped make sense of it. A few years back I was diagnosed with ADHD and a psychologist friend encouraged me to give Adderall a try. It was the first time that medication "worked" and it really made a big difference in my life. The big reason why being that psychomotor retardation and anhedonia were my biggest symptoms. When coupled with an anxiety disorder it creates a strong negative feedback loop.

        But here's the thing: medication isn't the cure. For me it alleviates (not eliminates) symptoms but at the end of the day it still requires work from me to ensure I create a positive feedback loop and don't let myself fall into that destructive loop. This is all stuff I had to learn on my own and through reading and seeking out friends with people who are more experts in the area. That's where I think our care system fails.

        The best thing I can recommend to people is to be introspective. Each journey is personal, but whatever your issues are try to find the early warning signs. For me it can be little things like the dishes piling up or my desk getting messy (these seem you be common). Things like depression build up, so look for the signs. And most importantly, open up. This was the hardest for me and makes me feel demasculated and embarrassed much of the time. But I've also found it to help build stronger relationships with my partner and friends. That it helps open a door to communicate both ways. Maybe you open the door for you, but you also open a door many are too nervous to open themselves. It's worth the discomfort and gets easier with time. (Talking behind a handle is a great way to start too. So make alt accounts if you need to. That's how I started)

        [0] http://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/depression.html

        • By someothherguyy 2025-12-225:122 reply

          you took amphetamine and weren't depressed suddenly? in my experience, that lasts a bit, but give it another decade or so. it tends to bite in other ways.

          • By godelski 2025-12-227:10

            Going to depend on your dosages. I try to stay low and will take breaks to help reduce dependency. I actually really dislike the feeling of a high dosage and it does have negative effects at that end.

            Also remember that everyone reacts differently to things. SSRIs work great for some people, but not for me. So it's worth trying different classes of medicines too but also to make sure that when having more dangerous ones. I made sure close friends knew too

          • By jondwillis 2025-12-226:09

            What ways?

      • By KellyCriterion 2025-12-236:55

        > were because something was not right in my life.

        THIS! Thats the reason why I always refused to take any medication: Doctors said you could "try X or Y and in some days I should feel better" - while the problems where mainly because of problems at work or within relationship.

        Why should I take medics if I have problems at work with bad colleagues? This logic never made sense to me.

        And my 2ct: If this wouldnt be a hardcore capitalist society in which most people struggle despite the fact living in a rich country, possessing nothing and having no homeownership, then there would be near zero demand for any psy medics.

    • By BikiniPrince 2025-12-224:07

      Burn out is the second or third year of non-stop fires and you are the one to solve all of the problems. Meanwhile the company is busy creating more fires because they haven’t finished burning that sweet sweet engineer candle.

    • By thanedar 2025-12-221:131 reply

      For sure! I've written a lot about depression too! But I do think a lot of what people otherwise blame on burnout or depression is really this existential hunger to make more positive impact. Finding that highest purpose can change lives!

      • By marcus_holmes 2025-12-221:51

        My depression was due to childhood trauma. No amount of purpose would have changed that. I had to deal with my demons before I could move into the kind of positive space where purpose made any kind of difference.

        edit: but yes, now that I have done that work, purpose is good, and what keeps me positive and away from the black dog.

    • By anbotero 2025-12-2214:381 reply

      My situation is: I've visited doctors and they encourage me to try new things, "to keep coming out" of my comfort zone, but I can't seem to really feel excitement (passion, rather) anymore. The closest thing is my girlfriend.

      I don't complain about mornings, about working, about any activity: I dig most of them, I really like some, but I just can't seem to feel alignment with this "purpose" thing. In my mind, my purpose is to live with health, enjoy life. For that I do the usual: travel, meet new people, practice a different sport or physical activity, hike, dive, go out to restaurants, play video games, watch films, go to theater, cook, draw, paint figurines, I help people (I'm no volunteer, though). I'm only missing woodworking because I live in an apartment and I can't fit any of that here, haha.

      Am I cooked? Do I have depression and psychologists can't seem to adequately name it? Or can I simply go on with my life like this without feeling weird that every one else has/perceives all these issues that I don't?

      • By BobbyTables2 2025-12-2215:121 reply

        I’m largely similar, except don’t even feel anything for spouse anymore either.

        Even nice vacations aren’t enjoyable the way they used to be.

        All started at the beginning of the pandemic (long before getting COVID).

        Have had poor luck getting doctors to diagnose and treat actual problems, so haven’t tried for this.

        Medically quite healthy by all measures.

        What confuses me is I see people 10-20 years older with passions for doing things. They seem to have a zest for life that I cannot comprehend.

        • By marcus_holmes 2025-12-231:58

          I'd encourage both of you to go and try talking to a therapist, based on my experiences.

          You absolutely can start by saying "I don't seem to have the joy of life that others have" and see where that leads you.

          It might not help, but it also might.

    • By dyauspitr 2025-12-222:443 reply

      Medical assistance is not going to help when the thing that is making you depressed is the non negotiable 9-5 you have to do 5 days a week.

      You’re not in the right field you say? Then you’ll be depressed from the poverty that comes from abysmal wages and the complete lack of job security.

      • By KellyCriterion 2025-12-237:04

        This is actually nowdays my main thesis for most negative things I see in society: The capitalist force pressing people into whatever jobs leads to estrangement, which will lead to a lot of negative outcomes over decades added up. (social/mental/physical health impact etc.)

      • By nradov 2025-12-224:211 reply

        Unless you're in prison, everything is negotiable. But some people build a private prison in their own minds.

        • By canyp 2025-12-224:451 reply

          Ah, yes, low wages and precarity are just mental imagery people have constructed in their minds. If only those fools stopped lying to themselves! /s

          • By brailsafe 2025-12-227:311 reply

            A personal prison can mean many things, and if low wages automatically mean precarity, then that's a type of stress that would be worthwhile to try and create a lesser draw on, imo.

            For me, I'm always framing whatever I currently earn as "right now". Right now I'm doing ok, but it's fairly likely it won't last longer than 2 years, because it never has, and I have no reason to think it will this time. That means that even if a bank were to give me a long term loan, I'd be stupid to commit to anything but the most manageable terms, which means I'd have to consider what I'd be able to make in a part-time laborer position when layoffs come around or something.

            If I can theoretically make myself liable for a 3.5k a month tiny condo mortgage, even if it's less than half my take home, I'd be uncomfortable doing so unless it was half that amount. Therefore, either a miracle needs to happen on the career side or the housing market needs to finally crash before my partner and I move out of this basement, no kids, used car etc.. and that's fine for now. If I lose a job, I need to have at least a year if not more of liquid or close to liquid assets available to cover living expenses, and for that to be possible, I need to have relatively minimal fixed liabilities

            • By s1artibartfast 2025-12-235:211 reply

              Ive come to realize that there is very little that would make me truly comfortable with big risks, so I decided to just start taking them. If they dont work out, I will have the consolation that I tried, and so far, it has been working out well. I Got myself liable for a 7k mortgage, about 80% of my take home. Nervous about commitment but married my wife. Nervous about kids, but have one on the way.

              If it all comes tumbling down tomorrow, I would be out a ton of money, but basically where I was 5 years ago. I wish I had taken the plunge on each of these things 5 years earlier.

              Nothing risked, nothing gained.

              • By brailsafe 2025-12-2321:03

                I've actually started taking the same approach—despite the content of my comment—just not with huge amounts of debt for things that only offer tenuous personal value. So, for me I've decided that it makes way more sense to fully commit to my long term relationship, and if it fails eventually, it won't be because I was trying to keep one foot out the door. That said, aside from automatic common law designation, marriage is not something I'm planning atm, even after many years.

                > I Got myself liable for a 7k mortgage, about 80% of my take home.

                That is... spicy. I guess context matters though, if you're already financially secure and the ongoing income would otherwise just be added to other investments, and the remaining 20% is enough to cover you, and if you're in a place that locks in your interest rate for the whole mortgage, then I could see that being less dramatic. Likewise if you're both working or stand to inherit something.

                Additionally, a mortgage is one of those things where if you've consistently earned whatever income it is, then it's more a matter of being excessively cautious. I've probably only ever earned an income for half of my working life; year on year I might make zero or full-time income, and the economy (in Canada) is indeed tangibly precarious right now.

                Broadly I agree though. I wouldn't be in the relatively good position I'm in now without a series of scary bets earlier, moving to a new city, trying harder at more ambitious career moves etc..

                It's just that there have been multiple times where I've lost a job, couldn't find _anything_ to pay bills with for long enough that I've literally dropped all the way to zero financially, losing the rental, and needing to live out of a car, so those kinds of liabilities just don't (yet?) make any sense. My hunch is that for people who haven't had that experience, it's more of a major milestone that they're eventually going to do without a doubt in their mind, they just need the raw salary number

      • By adamsb6 2025-12-225:021 reply

        9-5 5 days per week sounds wonderful.

        • By miki_oomiri 2025-12-225:281 reply

          "You don't work that hard, I do".

          Don't gatekeep.

          • By mlrtime 2025-12-2212:191 reply

            Don't let antiwork enter the conversation either.

            • By dyauspitr 2025-12-2223:09

              I’m not anti work but I do hate working in an office setting.

    • By Trasmatta 2025-12-223:581 reply

      I don't think it's quite that binary. Depression can cause burn out and burn out can cause depression. They're inextricably linked.

      • By marcus_holmes 2025-12-224:58

        agree completely. But they are different things, and need different treatment.

    • By RamblingCTO 2025-12-2214:46

      And burn out isn't "I hate my job and don't enjoy it more". It's fatigue so hard that you feel like you haven't slept after waking up. I hate that burnout is thrown around so easily. It's something that should be moved to therapy and a long time off, not "switch jobs". If that fixes your burnout, it's early stages or not burnout.

      I had burnout this year and was too dumbfounded in the supermarket to buy what I always buy or drive a car. I didn't have any mental capacity anymore. Like an IQ of 20 and the physical energy of a 100 year old.

    • By randyrand 2025-12-223:40

      And the money to pay for it. So better get to work.

    • By nradov 2025-12-222:352 reply

      Be unkind to yourselves, people. I find the best way to prevent depression and burn-out is to be brutally, ruthlessly frank with myself. There's nothing positive in accepting weakness and failure. I always feel better when I hold myself to the highest standards and don't make excuses. Of course, I don't always manage to fully do that but it's something to aspire to.

      • By marcus_holmes 2025-12-223:362 reply

        Please don't do this to yourself.

        Please go and get help.

        Brains really don't work this way, and you are damaging yourself.

        • By koakuma-chan 2025-12-224:32

          If you're sad just don't be sad. Easy peasy just like that.

        • By nradov 2025-12-224:121 reply

          Nah, I'm good. You have no clue how brains actually work.

          • By tock 2025-12-227:59

            How do brains actually work?

      • By rTX5CMRXIfFG 2025-12-227:262 reply

        What's the analog of rhabdomyolysis for the mind? You're on a path to get it, bud. Not a personal attack, just my and a whole bunch of other people's experiences.

        • By RamblingCTO 2025-12-2214:47

          Burnout, anxiety disorders, panic attacks. One of them.

        • By nradov 2025-12-231:15

          Lol spare us the pop psychology and concern trolling. Your lame analogy has about as much scientific validity as phrenology.

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