The Problem with LLMs

2026-02-122:035997www.deobald.ca

Premise Six months ago, a friend of mine, with whom I work on the nonprofit Pariyatti mobile app, sent me this blog post by Vijay Khanna: From Idea to App in 7 Hours. By now, this is a fairly common…

Six months ago, a friend of mine, with whom I work on the nonprofit Pariyatti mobile app, sent me this blog post by Vijay Khanna: From Idea to App in 7 Hours. By now, this is a fairly common zero-to-one LLM coding story. (LLM is short for Large Language Model but for the purposes of this essay, we’ll use it as a substitute for what is broadly categorized as “generative AI” in early 2026. These systems are trained on large bodies of text, images, video, etc., which enable them to produce meaningful responses when prompted.)

The question was posed: could this help us implement new features in the Pariyatti app more quickly?

Indeed it could. But there are ethical concerns to consider before diving into the deep end with LLMs and, unfortunately, they aren’t simple concepts to contend with.

Pariyatti’s nonprofit mission, it should be noted, specifically incorporates a strict code of ethics, or sīla: not to kill, not to steal, not to engage in sexual misconduct, not to lie, and not to take intoxicants.

In this conversation, two of these sīla are of interest to us.

Ethics

The fundamental ethical issue with LLMs is plagiarism. LLMs are, by their very nature, plagiarism machines. In the early days of GitHub Copilot, back before the Copilot brand was subsumed by the Microsoft juggernaut and the cute little sopwith flying helmet-plus-goggles logo was replaced with meaningless rainbow tilde, it would sometimes regurgitate training data verbatim. That’s been patched in the years since, but it’s important to remember a time – not that long ago – that the robots weren’t very good at concealing what they were doing.

As a quick aside, I am not going to entertain the notion that LLMs are intelligent, for any value of “intelligent.” They are robots. Programs. Fancy robots and big complicated programs, to be sure — but computer programs, nonetheless. The rest of this essay will treat them as such. If you are already of the belief that the human mind can be reduced to token regurgitation, you can stop reading here. I’m not interested in philosophical thought experiments.

Plagiarism requires two halves. The first half of plagiarism is theft. Taking something which is not one’s own. It’s that peculiar kind of theft where the victim may not even know they’re being stolen from: copyright violation. The second half is dishonesty. Plagiarism requires that the thief take the stolen work and also lie about its origins. Most plagiarists make minor modifications but all plagiarists pass the borrowed work off as their own.

LLMs do both of these things.

LLMs need to eat and to eat they need to steal. Their entire existence is predicated on the theft of copyrighted works and your usage of LLMs is predicated on your willingness to consume pirated work. If it matters to you, these are not exclusively the copyrighted works of large corporations or universities. Especially in the case of source code, it is often the work of individuals. And in the case of open source, that work tends to be licensed in a way that is incompatible with LLM training. LLMs break source code licensing. In the case of text, graphics, audio, and film, the work includes struggling artists. Realistically, other than those few artists who sell burned CDs out of the trunks of their cars to keep their work off the internet completely, it includes every struggling artist.

When you use an LLM, the product of that use is, inherently, a lie. It conceals the trillions of documents it used as source material. And if you claim its output as your own, you not only pander to the lie — you give it a home in your heart.

If you wouldn’t watch a torrented movie or read a downloaded e-book or listen to “borrowed” MP3s, you shouldn’t be using LLMs.

Because I am not in the category of people who adhere strictly to copyright, I’ve been experimenting with LLMs for a month. But the lies we tell ourselves are more insideous than a willingness to dip our toes into grey-area theft. Of these two ethical quagmires, the lies concern me the most.

The Positive

Before we get to my concerns, I’m going to praise LLMs for the benefits I have witnessed. I haven’t seen these arguments made anywhere else, surprisingly, so I hope they are useful to at least a few people.

First, LLMs create accessibility in foreign languages. This is actually the one place we have used LLMs, historically, in the Pariyatti app. Translators are busy and find it easier to review translations than to translate huge CSV files. Even before the ubiquity of programming agents, another volunteer has been translating the UI and content of the Pariyatti app with LLMs. This serves users who would be otherwise unable to read the app in their native language.

Second, LLMs are a form of accessibility for people like me. Due to an eye injury, I had to stop programming back in 2014. I’ve taken to puttering, in recent years. But it’s still been too much for me to spend all day visually tokenizing source code (which, if you haven’t paid attention to what your eyes do while you program, is a large part of what they’re up to). Worse yet, I still can’t read log files without getting headaches. That needle-in-a-haystack exercise is too painful, no matter how much tail and grep I throw at it.

This is no longer the workflow with an LLM and an agent. Instead, I think about the program, the design, the architecture, the data model, the testing strategy… and ask a robot in the sky to type it up. The minutiae of programming, which would normally keep my time in the text editor limited to weekends, is almost entirely delivered by the LLM. Limiting screen time allowed me to work through an entire month. The kind of work I did in January will be addressed below, under “Problems.” But it can’t be denied that I was creating software I simply wouldn’t have, on my own.

Before we get to those problems, I’d like to talk through some of the ways I’ve found myself working, and some ways I’ve watched others work.

Ways of Working

Some friends and I held a 4-hour LLM/agent/orchestrator show-and-tell the other Saturday. There appears to be a spectrum across which developers land.

On one end of the spectrum, we have the most cautious developers. The I’ve-never-touched-an-LLM-and-never will folks fit in here, but so do the people who have taken LLMs for a test drive, didn’t like it, and decided they’re still best used for conversations or banal minutiae, like puking out a one-off bash or python script. In my experience, these people are writing C, C++, or Rust … or working in some antiquated web framework that cause LLMs a lot of problems, due to lack of documentation and online examples. It matters if they introduce tiny bugs. Their work is careful and deliberate. They’ve been at it for 20 years. They’re using GLM-4.7 or paying $20/mo for Claude Code Pro.

On the other end of the spectrum, we have the YOLO crowd. They’re writing TypeScript, they let the LLM write the test suite, their ~/.claude/settings.json is 4 pages long and extremely permissive. brew install? Sure! Whatever you need, Claude. Their work is fast, exploratory, and experimental. The architecture is fragile and the code is sloppy — intentionally. They’re using a pay-as-you-go model and burning tokens worth a mid-level developer salary, per person, every month, on average.

And in the middle are those of us who don’t fit in either of these buckets. For instance, I tend to spend a lot of time planning system seams, thinking about the data model, worrying about database schema evolution, API versioning, security without design complexity, and architecture documents that tie it all together. The LLM has no concept of time, the evolution of the system, or the ways the architecture intersects with either of those concepts. That much is still up to a human. I worked with a friend throughout December, and his approach was to YOLO a prompt, let the LLM grind out a bunch of changes, then go through round after round of review until he was satisfied. More than once, it felt like he rewrote everything the LLM spit out. He’s working on a medium-sized codebase (OTOO 100,000 LOC). For him, the LLM output was never useless, but it varied in quality from “helpful rough skeleton” to “this can be committed, as-is.”

In my solo work, I found it notable how readily my behaviour slid up and down this spectrum. At first, I would bother to read the CSS Claude produced. I stopped caring very quickly. One of the (few) advantages of CSS is that it does manage to separate content from presentation, albeit violently; there’s a part of me that knows the CSS could always be rewritten from scratch later. But it currently sits at 3000 lines for a tiny web app and I’m sure it would make my frontend developer friends cry to see the crimes committed in there.

It’s one thing to do this with CSS. I know CSS. I just hate writing it. But blankly staring at a patch and giving it the “LGTM” thumbs up just because the app seems to work is a lot more dangerous in a language like, say, Rust. I do not know Rust. I don’t hate writing it… I just can’t. So the 700 lines of Rust in my repo scare me many orders of magnitude more than the 3000 lines of CSS, even though my approach to it was the same.

Especially as LLMs are becoming increasingly capable of creating correct code (or, worse, code which very much appears correct), the risk of LGTM’ing something dangerous into the repository is growing every week.

Problems

I’ve seen more than one article or study on “AI Fatigue” this past week. In our 4-hour marathon show-and-tell, this was the topic that came up most often amongst folks who were making heavy use of LLMs. I was surprised how many folks were asking each other, “so… how are you feeling with all this?”

As one friend put it, LLMs front-load work we’re accustomed to performing at intervals, after a small batch of creative work is done: reviewing, QA, evolutionary design… even refactoring. We’re not accustomed to flexing those muscles. Not this often, at least. We wind up playing every role on the team – from product manager to analyst to iteration manager to engineering manager to tech lead to QA – in part because we can, in part because we must. It’s exhausting.

As the AI Fatigue article points out, this exhaustion comes from doing more work in less time, which leads the average person to think “well, I’ll just queue up more work then.” We don’t know how to pace ourselves with these tools. The tools keep getting better so people keep working faster… but there will come a breaking point. For many, the breaking point has happened already and they’re already LGTM’ing problematic code into their company’s most important repositories.

This is compounded by an effect I like to call The Sweaty Yegge. I mean no disrespect to Steve Yegge, but he seems like an excitable guy and he’s definitely too excited about LLMs. $GAS, his momentary crypto shill, was preceded by Gas Town, which was preceded by the Asian Gig Economy, which was preceded by functional programming, I guess. Steve gets excited by things. We all do. But if you find yourself engaged in a Sweaty Yegge episode, I’d encourage you to reflect and say to yourself: “don’t get too excited, too quickly.” There will be time to learn these tools and that time doesn’t need to be now. The tools will be completely different in six months.

I’m aware it’s difficult to reconcile a calm outlook on the industry at the moment, given the exponential pace of LLM improvements. But the best of what these programs have to offer us will only come when the next AI winter finally comes to cool things off.

Which brings us to the last bit of LLM psychology: attachment and addiction. These two problematic states of mind are in opposition to one another.

When I say “attachment”, I am referring to an attachment to the act of programming itself. This is changing, and, for anyone who has tried these tools in the past few months, there is little doubt that it is changing. But for many programmers, the tiny joys are the ones that give hacking all its meaning. The perfect abstraction feels like a perfectly-salted meal. A concise unit test is a flawless wooden inlay. A solid concurrency model is a series of brushstrokes on a painting where the painter wouldn’t change a thing. LLMs take these little joys away. It isn’t the end of programming. But it is the end of an era. That makes some people sad.

When I say “addiction”, I am referring to an addiction to getting things done. Especially if you already know what you’re doing, LLMs can make you feel superhuman. Like steroids or vyvanse, it’s a performance-enhancer. And like steroids or vyvanse, you can get hooked on the performance it enables. One friend, very much on the “YOLO as many tokens as the company can afford” end of the spectrum, said she had to cut herself off because she found herself prompting with her laptop open on the backs of motorcycles driving through the streets of Bangalore.

The upcoming AI winter won’t solve either of these problems. The changes which have come to the profession of programming are permanent changes. Expressing your distate for LLMs or your sadness for the advent of the transformer will be approximately as effective as railing against cars or capitalism. There will be programming “purists” for many years to come… but they will need to learn to deal with their sadness and anger, or be consumed by it. Similarly, the shimmer of GTD will consume those who don’t learn to ration it out, to pace themselves, and to give themselves time to think.

If you’ve been following the topic of AI in public discourse, you’ve probably noted that I’m not addressing the environmental impact of LLMs. This is for two reasons. First, many of the environmental concerns surrounding the AI industry are blown out of proportion. Fresh water consumption is the most egrigious — if you want to reduce fresh water waste, you should stop eating beef, not complain about Anthropic’s data centres on Twitter (where you have no agency anyway). Second, the environmental landscape surrounding LLMs is changing too quickly and the ethical constraints, at least as far as they pertain to sīla, are unclear. It’s likely that, two generations from now, computer users will run the datacentre-sized models of 2026 on a watch. But if the boundaries of plagiarism are altered by 2066, it will not be due to technological advancement but because of a shift in societal norms. LLMs will always be plagiarism machines but in 40 years we might not care.

Beyond the copyright violations and the dangerous new psychological landscape, there’s a higher-level problem with the current distribution models for LLMs in 2026. There’s an opportunity for lock-in that chills me to the bone.

While there are almost no truly “open” models yet, as we tend to think of open source and open data, the difference between the current crop of “open models” and fully proprietary models is striking. The proprietary models are given more food with every prompt and, when a model consumes this way, it feeds only itself. A virtuous circle for shareholders. A downward spiral for customers. This could lead to an entirely new era of data gatekeeping and walled gardens.

The leaked Google memo, “We Have No Moat” is three years old now, but it still gives me hope that the pace of Chinese companies and academia will ensure no clear winner in the American commercial AI space.

The Future

Do I think we should use LLMs at Pariyatti, or any other nonprofit I work with? I’m not sure, to be honest. The higher-level ethical concerns of these organizations aren’t my jurisdiction. But I do hope this essay provides some food for thought and helps those in management positions consider the topic of LLMs from multiple angles.

Do I think I should use LLMs at work? I need to give further consideration to the accessibility afforded by these tools. Just because I have a disability doesn’t make LLMs the right tool choice. But, in all likelihood, this choice will not be mine to make.


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Comments

  • By hodgehog11 2026-02-124:544 reply

    > "...it would sometimes regurgitate training data verbatim. That’s been patched in the years since..."

    > "They are robots. Programs. Fancy robots and big complicated programs, to be sure — but computer programs, nonetheless."

    This is totally misleading to anyone with less familiarity with how LLMs work. They are only programs in as much as they perform inference from a fixed, stored, statistical model. It turns out that treating them theoretically in the same way as other computer programs gives a poor representation of their behaviour.

    This distinction is important, because no, "regurgitating data" is not something that was "patched out", like a bug in a computer program. The internal representations became more differentially private as newer (subtly different) training techniques were discovered. There is an objective metric by which one can measure this "plagiarism" in the theory, and it isn't nearly as simple as "copying" vs "not copying".

    It's also still an ongoing issue and an active area of research, see [1] for example. It is impossible for the models to never "plagiarize" in the sense we think of while remaining useful. But humans repeat things verbatim too in little snippets, all the time. So there is some threshold where no-one seems to care anymore; think of it like the % threshold in something like Turnitin. That's the point that researchers would like to target.

    Of course, this is separate from all of the ethical issues around training on data collected without explicit consent, and I would argue that's where the real issues lie.

    [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.02671

    • By oasisbob 2026-02-125:33

      The plagiarism by the models is only part of it. Perhaps it's in such small pieces that it becomes difficult to care. I'm not convinced.

      The larger, and I'd argue more problematic, plagiarism is when people take this composite output of LLMs and pass it off as their own.

    • By DoctorOetker 2026-02-126:192 reply

      To a large extent both "hallucinations" and "plagiarism" can be addressed with the same training method: source-aware training.

      https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.01019

      At the frontier of science we have speculations, which until proper measurements become possible, are unknown to be true or false (or even unknown to be equivalent with other speculations etc. regardless of their being true or false, or truer or falser). Once settled we may call earlier but wrong speculations as "reasonable wrong guesses". In science it is important that these guesses or suspicions are communicated as it drives the design of future experiments.

      I argue that more important that "eliminating hallucinations" is tracing the reason it is or was believed by some.

      With source-aware training we can ask an LLM to give answers to a question (which may contradict each other), but to provide the training-source(s) justifying emission of each answer, instead of bluff it could emit multiple interpretations and go like:

      > answer A: according to school of thought A the answer is that ... examples of authors and places in my training set are: author+title a1, a2, a3, ...

      > answer B: according to author B: the answer to this question is ... which can be seen in articles b1, b2

      > answer ...: ...

      > answer F: although I can't find a single document explaining this, when I collate the observation x in x1, x2, x3; observation y in y1,y2, ... , observation z in z1, z2, ... then I conclude the following: ...

      so it is clear which statements are sourced where, and which deductions are proper to the LLM.

      Obviously few to none of the high profile LLM providers will do this any time soon, because when jurisdictions learn this is possible they will demand all models to be trained source-aware, so that they can remunerate the authors in their jurisdiction (and levy taxes on their income). What fraction of the income will then go to authors and what fraction to the LLM providers? If any jurisdiction would be first to enforce this, it would probably be the EU, but they don't do it yet. If models are trained in a different jurisdiction than the one levying taxes the academic in-group citation game will be extended to LLMs: a US LLM will have incentive to only cite US sources when multiple are available, and a EU trained LLM will prefer to selectively cite european sources, etc.

      • By rickydroll 2026-02-1217:27

        In addition to providing training sources, it's important to identify overlaps among the fragments used in the answer. For me, overlap doesn't mean simply identical expression, but conceptually identical.

        We are much more likely to find conceptual overlap in code than in language and prose because Many of the problems we solve, as mathematicians say, reduce to previously solved problems, which IMO means substantially identical code.

        A related question is how much change is necessary to a work of art, image, prose, or code for it to escape copyright? If we can characterize it and the LLM generates something that escapes copyright, I suggest the output should be excluded from future copyright or patent claims.

      • By hodgehog11 2026-02-1214:21

        I wasn't aware of source-aware training, so thank you for the reference! It does seem a bit too good to be true; I believe in a system of tradeoffs so I feel like this must have an issue with reducing creativity. That's at first glance though, so I could be wrong.

    • By thunky 2026-02-1213:22

      > But humans repeat things verbatim too in little snippets, all the time

      Also, it's possible, although statistically improbable, for a human to generate the exact same thing another human generated (and copyrighted) without even knowing it.

    • By globnomulous 2026-02-1219:28

      > This is totally misleading to anyone with less familiarity with how LLMs work. They are only programs in as much as they perform inference from a fixed, stored, statistical model. It turns out that treating them theoretically in the same way as other computer programs gives a poor representation of their behaviour.

      Can you share any reading on this?

  • By bambax 2026-02-124:352 reply

    > Translators are busy

    No they're not. They're starving, struggling to find work and lamenting AI is eating their lunch. It's quite ironic that after complaining LLMs are plagiarism machines, the author thinks using them for translation is fine.

    "LLMs are evil! Except when they're useful for me" I guess.

    • By beering 2026-02-125:072 reply

      Simultaneously, if you hire human translators, you are likely to get machine translations. Maybe not often or overtly, but the translation industry has not been healthy for a while.

      • By poloniculmov 2026-02-1210:33

        The industry is sick because everyone is looking for the lowest prices, but translators don't like machine translation. They don't want to just review the output, because actually doing the translation leads to better understanding of what they have to do.

      • By euroderf 2026-02-1210:061 reply

        A machine translation might be useful just to get a bulk-mode translation of unfamiliar words and possibly idioms too. But then it's time for humans.

        • By dTal 2026-02-1221:071 reply

          I would expect there not to be a meaningful number of "unfamiliar words and idioms" to a professional translator.

          • By euroderf 2026-02-1315:31

            I would expect that many professional translators have native fluency in only one language.

    • By rickydroll 2026-02-1217:42

      I think using translation software or AI images comes down to the ease of working with the system vrs a human. For example, I've created placeholder images for various pieces of work. The images didn't bring in any revenue; they were throwaway pieces, so I didn't give a shit. It wasn't worth paying a human for it.

      Before I had AI-generated images, I either left out images from the work or used no-copyright clip art because, again, it wasn't worth arguing with or paying a human to do it.

      When it came to diagrams, before Excalidraw, I would dust off my drafting skills, draw something on paper with colored pencils, take a picture of it, and use the picture as the diagram. In this case, I was willing to argue with and pay myself.

  • By woeirua 2026-02-124:526 reply

    >As a quick aside, I am not going to entertain the notion that LLMs are intelligent, for any value of “intelligent.” They are robots. Programs. Fancy robots and big complicated programs, to be sure — but computer programs, nonetheless. The rest of this essay will treat them as such. If you are already of the belief that the human mind can be reduced to token regurgitation, you can stop reading here. I’m not interested in philosophical thought experiments.

    I can't imagine why someone would want to openly advertise that they're so closed minded. Everything after this paragraph is just anti-LLM ranting.

    • By Cloudef 2026-02-125:392 reply

      What's wrong about the statement? The black box algorithm might have been generated by machine learning, but it's still a computer program in the end.

      • By km3r 2026-02-126:371 reply

        Because it's so entirely reductive and misunderstanding of where the technology has progressed. Hello world is s computer program. So it Microsoft Windows. New levels of "intelligence" unlock with greater complexity of a program.

        Like look at our brains. We know decently well how a single neuron works. We can simulate a single one with "just a computer program". But clearly with enough layers some form of complexity can emerge, and at some level that complexity becomes intelligence.

        • By andsoitis 2026-02-126:422 reply

          > with enough layers some form of complexity can emerge, and at some level that complexity becomes intelligence.

          It isn’t a given that complexity begets intelligence.

          • By DiogenesKynikos 2026-02-127:44

            But in the case of both biological and computer neurons, it is an empirical fact that complexity has led to intelligence.

          • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-127:101 reply

            and it isn't a given that it doesn't, so maybe a little openness towards the possibility is warranted?

            • By andsoitis 2026-02-127:162 reply

              I’m open, but the comment I responded to asserted: “complexity becomes intelligence”, as if it is a fact. And it isn’t proven.

              • By DiogenesKynikos 2026-02-127:441 reply

                We have LLMs, which are obviously intelligent. How is it not proven?

                • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-127:461 reply

                  There is no "obvious" about it, unless you define "intelligent" in a rather narrow (albeit Turing-esque) way.

                  The suspicion is that they are good at predicting next-token and not much else. This is still a research topic at this point, from my reading.

                  • By DiogenesKynikos 2026-02-128:492 reply

                    You can't predict the next token in an arbitrary text unless you are highly intelligent and have a vast body of knowledge.

                    They're obviously intelligent in the way that we judge intelligence in humans: we pay attention to what they say. You ask them a question about an arbitrary subject, and they respond in the same way that an intelligent person would. If you don't consider that intelligence, then you have a fundamentally magical, unscientific view of what intelligence is.

                    • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-1215:251 reply

                      To return to an analogy I used a couple of days ago ... birds can fly, planes can fly, ergo they are both flying things ... but they fly in completely different ways. So on the one hand (visible behavior) they are similar (or even the same), and on the other (physical mechanism) they are not similar at all.

                      Which one of these comparisons you want to use depends on context.

                      The same seems entirely possible for current LLMs. On the one hand they do something that visibly seems to to be the same as something humans do, but on the other it is possible that the way they do it entirely different. Just as with the bird/plane comparison, this has some implications when you start to dig deeper into capabilities (e.g. planes cannot fly anywhere near as slowly as birds, and birds cannot fly as fast as planes; birds have dramatically more maneuverability than planes, etc. etc).

                      So are LLMs intelligent in the same way humans are? Depends on your purpose in asking that question. Planes fly, but they are not birds.

                      • By DiogenesKynikos 2026-02-130:401 reply

                        To extend your analogy, imagine that there are airplane skeptics who insist that planes can't fly, will never fly, and are good for nothing. They only crudely simulate flight. Meanwhile, millions of people are flying around every day in planes.

                        • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-134:261 reply

                          But if by "flight" you meant "the sorts of things swallows and kestrels can do",then the movement of planes through the sky would be at best irrelevant.

                          • By DiogenesKynikos 2026-02-137:591 reply

                            That's not what flight means. Yes, planes fly using a somewhat different (but related) mechanism from birds, but they do fly.

                            The same goes for LLM and human thought.

                            • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-1321:061 reply

                              This is simply wrong, and missing the point, simultaneously.

                              Flight (like "intelligence") means more than one thing. Planes fly, birds fly, but they not only use a different mechanism, they can't even do the same kind of flying that the other does.

                              Sometimes, the difference doesn't matter. Sometimes it does. Same for "intelligence".

                              • By DiogenesKynikos 2026-02-157:28

                                We don't actually know that much about how the brain works, and nobody discussing intelligence will decide tomorrow that humans aren't intelligent if the details of how the brain functions turn out to be slightly different from what we previously thought.

                                LLMs obviously display what everyone prior to 2022 would have called "intelligence," before the goalposts started rapidly shifting with the release of ChatGPT. They can carry conversations about arbitrary subjects, understanding what you're asking and formulating thoughtful answers at the level of a very smart and extremely well educated human. They're not identical to humans (e.g., they don't have fixed personalities), but they display what everyone commonly believes to be intelligence.

                    • By andsoitis 2026-02-1213:241 reply

                      I know you're arguing with someone else, but I think it is getting sidetracked.

                      Whether or not LLMs are intelligent (I think they are more intelligent than a cat, for instance, but less intelligent than a human) isn't my argument.

                      My argument is that complexity in and of itself doesn't yield intelligence. There's no proof of that. There are many things that are very very complex, but we would not put it on an intelligence scale.

              • By km3r 2026-02-1216:59

                I said "intelligence can emerge" not that it will.

      • By woopsn 2026-02-127:43

        A provocative aside in bad faith, anyway a completely minor point within the overall post, which some of the people he's telling to fuck off might have read

    • By hodgehog11 2026-02-125:062 reply

      I disagree that the majority of it is anti-LLM ranting, there are several subtle points here that are grounded in realism. You should read on past the first bit if you're judging mainly from the initial (admittedly naive) first few paragraphs.

      • By jbotz 2026-02-127:271 reply

        > You should read on past the first bit...

        Not GP, but... the author said explicitly "if you believe X you should stop reading". So I did.

        The X here is "that the human mind can be reduced to token regurgitation". I don't believe that exactly, and I don't believe that LLMs are conscious, but I do believe that what the human mind does when it "generates text" (i.e. writes essays, programs, etc) may not be all that different from what an LLM does. And that means that most of humans's creations are also the "plagiarism" in the same sense the author uses here, which makes his argument meaningless. You can't escape the philosophical discussion he says that he's not interested in if you want to talk about ethics.

        Edit: I'd like to add that I believe that this also ties in to the heart of the philosophy of Open Source and Open Science... if we acknowledge that our creative output is 1% creative spark and 99% standing on the shoulders of Giants, then "openness" is a fundamental good, and "intellectual property" is at best a somewhat distasteful necessity that should be as limited as possible and at worst is outright theft, the real plagiarism.

        • By Cloudef 2026-02-1213:16

          So do you believe seahorse emoji exists?

      • By woeirua 2026-02-126:001 reply

        I read the rest of it. It was intellectually lazy.

        • By measurablefunc 2026-02-127:121 reply

          It's more intellectually lazy to think boolean logic at a sufficient scale crosses some event horizon wherein its execution on mechanical gadgets called computers somehow adds up to intelligence beyond human understanding.

          • By hodgehog11 2026-02-1211:481 reply

            It is intellectually lazy to proclaim something to be impossible in the absence of evidence or proof. In the case of the statement made here, it is provably true that Boolean logic at sufficient scale can replicate "intelligence" of any arbitrary degree. It is also easy to show that this can be perceived as an "event horizon" since the measurements of model quality that humans typically like to use are so nonlinear that they are virtually step function-like.

            • By measurablefunc 2026-02-1212:501 reply

              Doesn't seem like you have proof of anything but it does appear that you have something that is very much like religious faith in an unforeseeable inevitability. Which is fine as far as religion is concerned but it's better to not pretend it's anything other than blind faith.

              But if you really do have concrete proof of something then you'll have to spell it out better & explain how exactly it adds up to intelligence of such magnitude & scope that no one can make sense of it.

              • By hodgehog11 2026-02-1214:141 reply

                > "religious faith in an unforeseeable inevitability"

                For reference, I work in academia, and my job is to find theoretical limitations of neural nets. If there was so much of a modicum of evidence to support the argument that "intelligence" cannot arise from sufficiently large systems, my colleagues and I would be utterly delighted and would be all over it.

                Here are a couple of standard elements without getting into details:

                1. Any "intelligent" agent can be modelled as a random map from environmental input to actions.

                2. Any random map can be suitably well-approximated by a generative transformer. This is the universal approximation theorem. Universal approximation does not mean that models of a given class can be trained using data to achieve an arbitrary level of accuracy, however...

                3. The neural scaling laws (first empirical, now more theoretically established under NTK-type assumptions), as a refinement of the double descent curve, assert that a neural network class can get arbitrarily close to an "entropy level" given sufficient scale. This theoretical level is so much smaller than any performance metric that humans can reach. Whether "sufficiently large" is outside of the range that is physically possible is a much longer discussion, but bets are that human levels are not out of reach (I don't like this, to be clear).

                4. The nonlinearity of accuracy metrics comes from the fact that they are constructed from the intersection of a large number of weakly independent events. Think the CDF of a Beta random variable with parameters tending to infinity.

                Look, I understand the scepticism, but from where I am, reality isn't leaning that way at the moment. I can't afford to think it isn't possible. I don't think you should either.

                • By measurablefunc 2026-02-1214:441 reply

                  As I said previously, you are welcome to believe whatever you find most profitable for your circumstances but I don't find your heuristics convincing. If you do come up or stumble upon a concrete constructive proof that 100 trillion transistors in some suitable configuration will be sufficiently complex to be past the aforementioned event horizon then I'll admit your faith was not misplaced & I will reevaluate my reasons for remaining skeptical of Boolean arithmetic adding up to an incomprehensible kind of intelligence beyond anyone's understanding.

                  • By hodgehog11 2026-02-1223:371 reply

                    Which part was heuristic? This format doesn't lend itself to providing proofs, it isn't exactly a LaTeX environment. Also why does the proof need to be constructive? That seems like an arbitrarily high bar to me. It suggests that you are not even remotely open to the possibility of evidence either.

                    I also don't think you understand my point of view, and you mistake me for a grifter. Keeping the possibility open is not profitable for me, and it would be much more beneficial to believe what you do.

                    • By measurablefunc 2026-02-130:061 reply

                      I didn't think you were a grifter but you only presented heuristics so if you have formal references then you can share them & people can decide on their own what to believe based on the evidence presented.

                      • By hodgehog11 2026-02-137:161 reply

                        Fine, that's fair. I believe the statement that you made is countered by my claim, which is:

                        Theorem. For any tolerance epsilon > 0, there exists a transformer neural network of sufficient size that follows, up to the factor epsilon, the policy that most optimally achieves arbitrary goals in arbitrary stochastic environments.

                        Proof (sketch). For any stochastic environment with a given goal, there exists a model that maximizes expected return under this goal (not necessarily unique, but it exists). From Solomonoff's convergence theorem (Theorem 3.19 in [1]), Bayes-optimal predictors under the universal Kolmogorov prior converge with increasing context to this model. Consequently, there exists an agent (called the AIXI agent) that is Pareto-optimal for arbitrary goals (Theorem 5.23 in [1]). This agent is a sequence-to-sequence map with some mild regularity, and satisfies the conditions of Theorem 3 in [2]. From this universal approximation theorem (itself proven in Appendices B and C in [2]), there exists a transformer neural network of a sufficient size that replicates the AIXI agent up to the factor epsilon.

                        This is effectively the argument made in [3], although I'm not fond of their presentation. Now, practitioners still cry foul because existence doesn't guarantee a procedure to find this particular architecture (this is the constructive bit). This is where the neural scaling law comes in. The trick is to work with a linearization of the network, called the neural tangent kernel; it's existence is guaranteed from Theorem 7.2 of [4]. The NTK predictors are also universal and are a subset of the random feature models treated in [5], which derives the neural scaling laws for these models. Extrapolating these laws out as per [6] for specific tasks shows that the "floor" is always below human error rates, but this is still empirical because it works with the ill-defined definition of superintelligence that is "better than humans in all contexts".

                        [1] Hutter, M. (2005). Universal artificial intelligence: Sequential decisions based on algorithmic probability. Springer Science & Business Media.

                        [2] https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.10077

                        [3] https://openreview.net/pdf?id=Vib3KtwoWs

                        [4] https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.14548

                        [5] https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.16859

                        [6] https://arxiv.org/abs/2001.08361

                        • By measurablefunc 2026-02-1320:121 reply

                          How do you reconcile that w/ the fact that optimal probabilistic planning¹ is actually undecidable?

                          ¹https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000437020...

                          • By hodgehog11 2026-02-1322:071 reply

                            Good question. It's because we don't need to be completely optimal in practice, only epsilon close to it. Optimality is undecidable, but epsilon close is not, and that's what the claim says that NNs can provide.

                            • By measurablefunc 2026-02-1322:091 reply

                              That doesn't address what I asked. The paper I linked proves undecidability for a much larger class of problems* which includes the case you're talking about of asymptotic optimality. In any case, I am certain you are unfamiliar w/ what I linked b/c I was also unaware of it until recently & was convinced by the standard arguments people use to convince themselves they can solve any & all problems w/ the proper policy optimization algorithm. Moreover, there is also the problem of catastrophic state avoidance even for asymptotically optimal agents: https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.03357v2.

                              * - Corollary 3.4. For any fixed ε, 0 < ε < 1, the following problem is undecidable: Given is a PFA M for which one of the two cases hold:

                              (1) the PFA accepts some string with probability greater than 1 − ε, or (2) the PFA accepts no string with probability greater than ε.

                              Decide whether case (1) holds.

                              • By hodgehog11 2026-02-1410:13

                                Oh yes, that's one of the more recent papers from Hutter's group!

                                I don't believe there is a contradiction. AIXI is not computable and optimality is undecidable, this is true. "Asymptotic optimality" refers to behaviour for infinite time horizons. It does not refer to closeness to an optimal agent on a fixed time horizon. Naturally the claim that I made will break down in the infinite regime because the approximation rates do not scale with time well enough to guarantee closeness for all time under any suitable metric. Personally, I'm not interested in infinite time horizons and do not think it is an important criterion for "superintelligence" (we don't live in an infinite time horizon world after all) but that's a matter of philosophy, so feel free to disagree. I was admittedly sloppy with not explicitly stating that time horizons are considered finite, but that just comes from the choice of metric in the universal approximation which I have continued to be vague about. That also covers the Corollary 3.4, which is technically infinite time horizon (if I'm not mistaken) since the length of the string can be arbitrary.

    • By Ygg2 2026-02-125:12

      > I can't imagine why someone would want to openly advertise that they're so closed minded.

      Because humans often anthropomorphize completely inert things? E.g. a coffee machine or a bomb disposal robot.

      So far whatever behavior LLMs have shown is basically fueled by Sci-Fi stories of how a robot should behave under such and such.

    • By acjohnson55 2026-02-125:001 reply

      It was actually much less anti LLM than I was expecting from the beginning.

      But I agree that it is self limiting to not bother to consider the ways that LLM inference and human thinking might be similar (or not).

      To me, they seem do a pretty reasonable emulation of single- threaded thinking.

    • By palmotea 2026-02-126:121 reply

      > I can't imagine why someone would want to openly advertise that they're so closed minded.

      It's not being closed-minded. It's not wanting to get sea-lioned to death by obnoxious people.

      • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-127:191 reply

        [WARNING: seriously off-topic comment, I was triggered]

        Here's what sea-lioned means to me:

        I say something.

        You accuse me of sea-lioning.

        I have two choices: attempt to refute the sea-lioning, which becomes sea-lioning, or allowing your accusation to stand unchallenged, which appears to most people as a confirmation of some kind that I was sea-lioning.

        It is a nuclear weapon launched at discussion. It isn't that it doesn't describe a phenomena that actually happens in the world. However, it is a response/accusation to which there is never any way to respond to that doesn't confirm the accusation, whether it was true or not.

        It is also absolutely rooted in what appears to me to be a generational distinction: it seems that a bunch of younger people consider it to be a right to speak "in public" (i.e in any kind of online context where people who do not know you can read what you wrote) and expect to avoid a certain kind of response. Should that response arise? Various things will be said about the responder, including "sea-lioning".

        My experience is that people who were online in the 80s and 90s find this expectation somewhere between humorous and ridiculous, and that people who went online somewhere after about 2005 do not.

        Technologically, it seems to reflect a desire among many younger people for "private-public spaces". In the absence of any such actual systems really existing (at least from their POV), they believe they ought to be able to use very non-private public spaces (facebook, insta, and everything else under the rubric of "social media") as they wish to, rather than as the systems were designed. They are communicating with their friends and the fact that their conversations are visible is not significant. Thus, when a random stranger responds to their not-private-public remarks ... sea-lioning.

        We used to have more systems that were sort-of-private-public spaces - mailing lists being the most obvious. I sympathize with a generation that clearly wants more of these sorts of spaces to communicate with friends, but I am not sympathetic to their insistence that corporate creations that are not just very-much-non-private-public spaces but also essentially revenue generators should work the way they want them to.

        • By shermantanktop 2026-02-1216:041 reply

          That’s not what sealioning is at all. The rest of your generational rant is whatever it is, but sealioning is pretty well defined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

          If I repeated asked you for data to support your generalizations (“which younger people? Do you have an example? Why 2005 and not 2010?”) without admitting outright that I disagreed with you, that would be sealioning.

          If you are being accused of sealioning, and you have 1) stated your opinion and 2) are asking good-faith questions in an effort to actually understand, then you’re probably not doing it. OTOH if that happens a lot, you might be the problem without realizing it.

          • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-1216:301 reply

            I know both the cartoon and the wikipage. My interpretation of what is in the cartoon and on that page differs from yours a little. The critical part of sealioning from my perspective is not "repeatedly asking for data to support the position, without outright admitting disagreement", because that is common in other contexts where it is applauded. This is how debates at scientific conferences (or in other contexts) happen, much of the time. It's how debate and discussion happen online sometimes, and is frequently seen as appropriate and even welcome.

            The specific thing that the cartoon gets at is that the questioner was not invited into the conversation (c.f. the "You're in my house") frame. They take a position that they have a right to ask questions, when the other person/people involved did not invite them to be participants in the exchange at all. The people in the house do not consider their conversation about sealions to be public; the sealion does, and responds.

            • By shermantanktop 2026-02-134:591 reply

              Out here in the wide seas of the internet, I’m not sure what the equivalent of those house walls are. They presumably demarcate an expectation of either privacy or a clear division between participants and observers. I think those are just private chats.

              • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-1417:46

                If it was truly a private chat, there is no sealion.

                That's why my perspective on this is that it is precisely about the expectation of privacy (even when in a factually non-private context), or as you note a clear division between participants and observers.

                And that's why I think there's a cohort/age-based aspect to this: early users of the internet never had any concept of privacy in general, other than for email.

    • By wolrah 2026-02-125:092 reply

      > I can't imagine why someone would want to openly advertise that they're so closed minded.

      I would say the exact same about you, rejecting an absolutely accurate and factual statement like that as closed minded strikes me as the same as the people who insist that medical science is closed minded about crystals and magnets.

      I can't imagine why someone would want to openly advertise they think LLMs are actual intelligence, unless they were in a position to benefit financially from the LLM hype train of course.

      • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-127:15

        I have no financial position w.r.t. LLMs in any way that I am aware of (it is possible that some of the mutual funds I put money into have investments in companies that work with LLMs, but I know of no specifics there).

        I am not ready to say that "LLMs are actual intelligence", and most of their publically visible uses seem to me to be somewhere between questionable and ridiculous.

        Nevertheless, I retain a keen ... shall we call it anti-skepticism? ... that LLMs, by modelling language, may have accidentally modelled/created a much deeper understanding of the world than was ever anticipated.

        I do not want LLMs to "succeed", I think a society in which they are common is a worse society than the one in which we lived 5 years ago (as bad as that was), but my curiosity is not abated by such feelings.

      • By woeirua 2026-02-126:112 reply

        Cool, so clearly articulate the goal posts. What do LLMs have to do to convince you that they are intelligent? If the answer is there is no amount of evidence that can change your mind, then you're not arguing in good faith.

        • By shinycode 2026-02-126:521 reply

          It’s maybe an ethical and identity problem for most people. The idea that something not grounded in biology has somewhat the same « quality of intelligence » as us is disturbing. It rises so many uncomfortable questions like, should we accept to be dominated and governed by a higher intelligence, should we keep it « slave » or give it « deserved freedom ». Are those questions grounded in reality or intelligence is just decoupled from the realm of biology and we don’t have to consider them at all. Only biological « being » with emotions/qualia should be considered relevant as regards to intelligence which does not matter on its own but only if it embodies qualia ? It’s very new and a total shift in paradigm of life it’s hard to ask people to be in good faith here

          • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-127:161 reply

            But you don't and cannot know if qualia exist in a system, so how can that ever be a criteria for any kind of qualification?

            • By shinycode 2026-02-127:54

              That’s the main problem isn’t it ? Because it does matter and there is consequences to that like, should you « unplug » from the grid an AI ? Should we erase the memories of AI ? We eat animals and forbid eating humans, why ? Could we let AI « eat » some of us like in the matrix ?

              Should we consider it our equal or superior to us ? Should we give it the reigns of politics if it’s superior in decision making ? Or maybe the premise is « given all the knowledge that exists coupled with a good algorithm, you look/are/have intelligence » ? In which case intelligence is worthless in a way. It’s just a characteristic, not a quality. Which makes AI fantastic tools and never our equal ?

        • By rmunn 2026-02-126:471 reply

          Maybe, I don't know, not be based on a statistical model?

          Come on. If you are actually entertaining the idea that LLMs can possibly be intelligent, you don't know how they work.

          But to take your silly question seriously for a minute, maybe I might consider LLMs to be capable of intelligence if they were able to learn, if they were able to solve problems that they weren't explicitly trained for. For example, have an LLM read a bunch of books about the strategy of Go, then actually apply that knowledge to beat an experienced Go player who was deliberately playing unconventional, poor strategies like opening in the center. Since pretty much nobody opens their Go game in the center (the corners are far superior), the LLM's training data is NOT going to have a lot of Go openings where one player plays mostly in the center. At which point you'll see that the LLM isn't actually intelligent, because an intelligent being would have understood the concepts in the book that you should mostly play in the corners at first in order to build territory with the smallest number of moves. But when faced with unconventional moves that aren't found anywhere on the Internet, the LLM would just crash and burn.

          That would be a good test of intelligence. Learning by reading books, and then being able to apply that knowledge to new situations where you can't just regurgitate the training material.

          • By PaulDavisThe1st 2026-02-127:111 reply

            Have you seen the now-years-old transcripts of "ancient" LLMs inventing new languages with grammar and syntax structures completely different from our own?

            • By rmunn 2026-02-1221:391 reply

              No, I haven't. And I wasn't able to find it with a search. Link, please?

                • By rmunn 2026-02-196:08

                  The first one is not an example of the LLM inventing a language. The second link is, though. And it's superficially impressive, but here's the thing: the LLM didn't learn the language it was inventing. I just asked ChatGPT 'What does "Ipop gloop splog slopa" mean in the Glorp language?' (that's an example sentence taken directly from the transcript of ChatGPT "inventing" the Glorp language) and it told me '“Ipop gloop splog slopa” doesn’t have a known meaning in any real-world language — and there’s no documented language called “Glorp.”'

                  This is actually a good illustration of my point that LLMs, as they currently exist, aren't capable of general intelligence. The LLM can give the illusion of learning, because it can go back within its context window and look at the information presented there. But start a new context window in a new browser tab, and the information from the other browser tab isn't there. It's gone.

                  The ability to learn requires being able to retain the learned concepts for longer than a single conversation. LLMs, by their nature, aren't capable of that. If AGI is going to be achieved, it will need to happen via a different technology than large language models.

                  EDIT: I should add that the LLM only invented the new language via careful prompting by the user; it didn't do any of the creative-thought work itself, only responding to the user prompting it "Now generate ten more words that match these syntax rules".

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