Tony Hoare has died

2026-03-1014:501989259blog.computationalcomplexity.org

Turing Award winner and former Oxford professor Tony Hoare passed away last Thursday at the age of 92. Hoare is famous for quicksort, ALGO...

Turing Award winner and former Oxford professor Tony Hoare passed away last Thursday at the age of 92. Hoare is famous for quicksort, ALGOL, Hoare logic and so much more. Jim Miles gives his personal reflections.

Jill Hoare, Tony Hoare, Jim Miles. Cambridge, 7 September 2021

Last Thursday (5th March 2026), Tony Hoare passed away, at the age of 92. He made many important contributions to Computer Science, which go well beyond just the one for which most Maths/CompSci undergraduates might know his name: the quicksort algorithm. His achievements in the field are covered comprehensively across easy-to-find books and articles, and I am sure will be addressed in detail as obituaries are published over the coming weeks. I was invited in this entry to remember the Tony that I knew, so here I will be writing about his personality from the occasions that I met him.

I visited Tony Hoare several times in the past 5 years, as we both live in Cambridge (UK) and it turned out that my family knew his. As a Mathematics graduate, I was very keen to meet and learn about his life from the great man himself. I was further prompted by a post on this blog which mentioned Tony a few times and summarised a relevant portion of his work. I took a print out of that entry the first time I visited him to help break the ice - it is the green sheet of paper in the picture above.

Tony read the entry and smiled, clearly recalling very well the material of his that it referenced, and then elaborating a bit, explaining how vastly programs had scaled up in a rather short space of time and how they typically require different methods than many of those he had been developing in the early days.

I was aware that Tony had studied Classics and Philosophy at university so I was keen to learn how one thing had led to another in the development of his career. He explained that after completing his degree he had been intensively trained in Russian on the Joint Services School for Linguists programme and was also personally very interested in statistics as well as the emerging and exciting world of computers. This meant that after his National Service (which was essentially the JSSL) he took on a job 'demonstrating' a type of early computer, in particular globally, and especially in the Soviet Union. He described the place of these demonstrations as 'fairs' but I suppose we might now call them 'expos'. In a sense, this seemed like a very modest description of his job, when in fact - reading up on Tony's career - he was also involved in the development of code for these devices, but perhaps that's a historical quirk of the period: being a demonstrator of these machines meant really knowing them inside and out to the point of acting on the dev team (AND, one might deduce, being fluent in Russian!).

Tony would tell these stories with a clarity and warmth that made it clear that certainly he was still entirely 'all there' mentally, and that his memory was pinpoint sharp, even if there were some physical health issues, typical for anyone who makes it so far into their 80s (and, as we now know, beyond!).

A story that I was determined to hear from the source was the legendary quicksort 'wager'. The story goes that Tony told his boss at Elliott Brothers Ltd that he knew a faster sorting algorithm than the one that he had just implemented for the company. He was told 'I bet you sixpence you don't!'. Lo and behold, quicksort WAS faster. I asked Tony to tell this story pretty much every time we met, because I enjoyed it so much and it always put a smile on both of our faces. To his credit, Tony never tired of telling me this story 'right from the top'. I had hoped to visit again in the past year and record him telling it so that there was a record, but unfortunately this did not happen. However, I discover that it is indeed recorded elsewhere. One detail I might be able to add is that I asked Tony if indeed the wager was paid out or if it had merely been a figure of speech. He confirmed that indeed he WAS paid the wager (!). A detail of this story that I find particularly reflective of Tony's humble personality is that he went ahead and implemented the slower algorithm he was asked to, while he believed quicksort to be faster, and before chiming in with this belief. It speaks to a professionalism that Tony always carried.

About 50% of our meetings were spent talking about these matters relating to his career, while the rest varied across a vast range of topics. In particular, I wanted to ask him about a story that I had heard from a relative, that Tony - whilst working at Microsoft in Cambridge - would like to slip out some afternoons and watch films at the local Arts Picturehouse. This had come about because on one occasion a current film in question was brought up in conversation and it transpired Tony had seen it, much to the bemusement of some present. The jig was up - Tony admitted that, yes, sometimes he would nip out on an afternoon and visit the cinema. When I met Tony and gently questioned him on this anecdote he confirmed that indeed this was one of his pleasures and his position at Microsoft more than accommodated it.

On the topic of films, I wanted to follow up with Tony a quote that I have seen online attributed to him about Hollywood portrayal of geniuses, often especially in relation to Good Will Hunting. A typical example is: "Hollywood's idea of genius is Good Will Hunting: someone who can solve any problem instantly. In reality, geniuses struggle with a single problem for years". Tony agreed with the idea that cinema often misrepresents how ability in abstract fields such as mathematics is learned over countless hours of thought, rather than - as the movies like to make out - imparted, unexplained, to people of 'genius'. However, he was unsure where exactly he had said this or how/why it had gotten onto the internet, and he agreed that online quotes on the subject, attributed to him, may well be erroneous.

One final note I would like to share from these meetings with Tony is perhaps the most intriguing of what he said, but also the one he delivered with the greatest outright confidence. In a discussion about the developments of computers in the future - whether we are reaching limits of Moore's Law, whether Quantum Computers will be required to reinvigorate progress, and other rather shallow and obvious hardware talking points raised by me in an effort to spark Tony's interest - he said 'Well, of course, nothing we have even comes close to what the government has access to. They will always be years ahead of what you can imagine'. When pressed on this, in particular whether he believed such technology to be on the scale of solving the large prime factorisation that the world's cryptographic protocols are based on, he was cagey and shrugged enigmatically. One wonders what he had seen, or perhaps he was engaging in a bit of knowing trolling; Tony had a fantastic sense of humour and was certainly capable of leading me down the garden path with irony and satire before I realised a joke was being made.

I will greatly miss this humour, patience, and sharpness of mind, as I miss everything else about Tony.

RIP Tony Hoare (11 January 1934 - 5 March 2026)


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Comments

  • By paul 2026-03-1016:1410 reply

    One of my favorite quotes: “There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.”

    I think about this a lot because it’s true of any complex system or argument, not just software.

    • By withoutboats3 2026-03-1016:313 reply

      This is indeed a great quote (one of many gems from Sir Tony) but I think the context that follows it is also an essential insight:

      > The first method is far more difficult. It demands the same skill, devotion, insight, and even inspiration as the discovery of the simple physical laws which underlie the complex phenomena of nature. It also requires a willingness to accept objectives which are limited by physical, logical, and technological constraints, and to accept a compromise when conflicting objectives cannot be met. No committee will ever do this until it is too late.

      (All from his Turing Award lecture, "The Emperor's Old Clothes": https://www.labouseur.com/projects/codeReckon/papers/The-Emp...)

      • By dilawar 2026-03-113:201 reply

        "At first I hoped that such a technically unsound project would collapse but I soon realized it was doomed to success. Almost anything in software can be implemented, sold, and even used given enough determination. There is nothing a mere scientist can say that will stand against the flood of a hundred million dollars. But there is one quality that cannot be purchased in this way-- and that is reliability. The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity. It is a price which the very rich find most hard to pay."

        This explain quite a lot actually!

        • By kakacik 2026-03-118:44

          Very poignant, thank you. I can see my absolute core principle - KISS reflected in this. I still struggle to find a single use in my career where it wouldn't be the best approach, especially long term.

      • By jdironman 2026-03-1021:13

        From the linked lecture, which I printed out to read as part of a new less is more screen time management regime (where I print out longer form writing for reading) I found this very interesting tidbit in the context of Tony having made a delivery miscalculation and his team failing to deliver on one of their products; which is where I think a lot people are today with LLMs:

        "Each of my managers explained carefully his own theory of what had gone wrong and all the theories were different. At last, there breezed into my office the most senior manager of all, a general manager of our parent company, Andrew St. Johnston. I was surprised that he had even heard of me.

        "You know what went wrong?" he shouted--he always shouted -- "You let your programmers do things which you yourself do not understand." I stared in astonishment. "

      • By 1vuio0pswjnm7 2026-03-1017:293 reply

        "No committee will ever do this until it is too late."

        The software I like best was not written by "teams"

        I prefer small programs written by individuals that generally violate memes like "software is never finished" and "all software has bugs"

        (End user perspective, not a developer)

        • By hinkley 2026-03-1019:261 reply

          One of my biggest accomplishments was shipping a suite of 5 apps from four divisions where three of them resented each other’s existence and seemed bound and determined to build rules in the system that made sure the other two couldn’t function. Which made no goddamn sense because it was a pipeline and you can’t get anything out one end if it gets jammed in the middle.

          I was brought in to finish building the interchange format. The previous guy was not up to snuff. The architect I worked for was (with love) a sarcastic bastard who eventually abdicated about 2 rings of the circus to me. He basically took some of the high level meetings and tapped in when one of us thought I might strangle someone.

          Their initial impression was that I was a prize to be fought over like a child in a divorce. But the guy who gives you your data has you by the balls, if he is smart enough to realize it, so it went my way nine times out of ten. It was a lot of work threading that needle, (I’ve never changed the semantics of a library so hard without changing the syntax), but it worked out for everyone. By the time we were done the way things worked vs the way they each wanted it to work was on the order of twenty lines of code on their end, which I essentially spoonfed them so they didn’t have a lot of standing to complain. And our three teams always delivered within 15% of estimates, which was about half of anyone else’s error bar so we lowly accreted responsibilities.

          I ended up as principal on that project (during a hiring/promotional freeze on that title. I felt bad for leaving within a year because someone pulled strings for that, but I stayed until I was sure the house wouldn’t burn down after I left, and I didn’t have to do that). I must have said, “compromise means nobody gets their way.” About twenty times in or between meetings.

          • By mathattack 2026-03-1019:40

            These are the projects that give us confidence.

        • By 1vuio0pswjnm7 2026-03-1020:01

          Also, this software is free. Generally the authors were not paid to write it

        • By awesome_dude 2026-03-1019:52

          It's the committee vs the dictator issue - a small driven individual (or group) can achieve a lot, but they can also turn into tyrants.

          A committee forms when there's widespread disagreement on goals or priorities - representing stakeholders who can't agree. The cost is slower decisions and compromise solutions. The benefit is avoiding tyranny of a single vision that ignores real needs.

    • By hinkley 2026-03-1019:02

      We are poorer for him having waited to drop that sentence at his Turing Award acceptance speech. I use it all the time.

      Tony might be my favorite computer scientist.

    • By biscuits1 2026-03-1115:11

      There was an article posted here a few weeks ago titled "Nobody Gets Promoted for Simplicity."

      I've been thinking about it a lot, and now, in turn, the memory of Mr. Hoare.

    • By marxisttemp 2026-03-1020:361 reply

      It seems that with vibe coding our industry has finally, permanently embraced the latter approach. RIP Tony.

      • By jcgrillo 2026-03-111:13

        > permanently

        don't bet on it

    • By tosh 2026-03-1016:51

      aged very well

    • By squirrellous 2026-03-115:051 reply

      Can’t argue with the quote. However my current boss has been pushing this to the extreme without much respect for real-world complexities (or perhaps I’m too obtuse to think of a simple solution for all our problems), which regrettably gives me a bit of pause when hearing this quote.

      • By a96 2026-03-117:40

        Reminds me of another good one: Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. (-- probably not Einstein)

    • By eitally 2026-03-1017:111 reply

      Reminds me of this Pascal quote: "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."

      https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2014/02/03/270680304/this-...

      • By Paracompact 2026-03-1021:272 reply

        "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

        Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

        • By ultratalk 2026-03-1111:04

          "The greatest ideas are the simplest."

          - William Golding

    • By draygonia 2026-03-1018:161 reply

      Reminds me of this quote... “A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work.”

    • By HerbManic 2026-03-1019:131 reply

      One of the policies of The Rhinoceros Party in Canada was to increase the complexity of the taxation system so much that nobody could find the loopholes to exploit.

      • By gerdesj 2026-03-110:451 reply

        Had to look them up (WP), wasn't disappointed. We have the Monster Raving Loony Party in the UK.

        One of the Rhino's Party policies stands out - are you sure Trump wasn't born a Cannuck and was stolen at birth by racoons and smuggled down south?

        "Annexing the United States, which would take its place as the third territory in Canada's backyard (after the Yukon and the Northwest Territories—Nunavut did not yet exist), in order to eliminate foreign control of Canada's natural resources"

    • By Pxtl 2026-03-1019:032 reply

      Good thing we now have technology that allows us to crank out complex software at rates never-before seen.

      • By pocksuppet 2026-03-110:22

        Complex software full of very obvious deficiencies that nobody bothered to look for.

      • By rockinghigh 2026-03-1021:10

        It can also be used to simplify existing code bases.

  • By srean 2026-03-1016:142 reply

    As Dijkstra was preparing for his end of life, organizing his documents and correspondence became an important task. Cancer had snuck up on him and there was not much time.

    One senior professor, who was helping out with this, asked Dijkstra what is to be done with his correspondences. The professor, quite renowned himself, relates a story where Dijsktra tells him from his hospital bed, to keep the ones with "Tony" and throw the rest.

    The professor adds with a dry wit, that his own correspondence with Dijsktra were in the pile too.

    • By jcattle 2026-03-116:471 reply

      What is the equivalent of correspondence today?

      I guess back then each letter had a cost, in (delivery) time and money, so you better make it count.

      My guess is that these correspondences were often interesting to read because they had to be worthwile to send because of the associated cost.

      • By augusto-moura 2026-03-1117:16

        Time of delivery would be the biggest factor. Today we can send multiple quick messages to anyone, at that time people had to batch big discussions in a long articulated text, since it would take days to it arrive.

        I guess the closest to that nowadays would be blog articles, RFC discussions or long-form email threads.

    • By jonstewart 2026-03-1016:483 reply

      John Backus had some correspondence with Dijkstra that's worth a read: https://medium.com/@acidflask/this-guys-arrogance-takes-your...

      • By coffeemug 2026-03-1021:40

        Incredible letters, thanks for sharing. I wish some of this correspondence was published in physical books. What a joy it would be to read.

      • By fidotron 2026-03-1017:022 reply

        There's that immortal Alan Kay line "arrogance in computer science is measured in nano Dijkstras".

        • By srean 2026-03-1017:052 reply

          That's a famous quote and age might have mellowed him. But he was not like that at all in person with his students. He did insist that one be precise with ones words.

          The origin of the quote may have more to do with cultural differences between the Dutch and Americans.

          • By blast 2026-03-1018:461 reply

            That's a great point which never occurred to me about Dijkstra, even though I knew where he came from. My father in law used to like this joke: "He was Dutch and behaved as such."

            • By Gibbon1 2026-03-1021:492 reply

              I feel there is a tension between computer science is math and computer science is plumbing.

              • By bittercynic 2026-03-114:261 reply

                Why not the both?

                Some seem to think that math is somehow above plumbing, but modern society couldn't exist without both, and I'd argue that modern plumbing is more critical to our health and well being than modern math.

                • By throaskjdsakn 2026-03-1117:14

                  plumbing is one of those inventions that's so old we forget its importance

              • By tharkun__ 2026-03-114:54

                The plumber knows how many inches per foot the pipe has to drop in order for the poop to flow away and not get stuck in the pipe. It's easy enough to either not drop it enough and everything gets stuck or for it to drop too much and the water flows away but the poop stays in place. And they're the ones that actually make it happen and their clients really do care about that in the end. Without knowing this the plumber is nothing. They don't necessarily need to know they why and especially don't need to calculate it out!

                Some mathematician can probably calculate that properly. Some mathematician probably first did calculate that out to prove it. I'm not entirely certain that a mathematician was the reason that we know what drop we need. A lot of things in "real life" were "empirically discovered" and used and done for centuries before a mathematician proved it.

                Exceptions prove the rule, like when we calculate(d) things out for space travel before ever attempting it ;)

          • By antonvs 2026-03-1021:222 reply

            I’d want to see an example of Dijkstra’s “arrogance” that wasn’t justified.

            The “truths that might hurt” essay is a great example. Yeah, the truth hurts for many people. People don’t like being called out on their folly, particularly if it’s something they don’t personally control. That Durant make it “arrogant” to point it out.

            Also, Alan Kaye is overrated. Object orientation is one of those painful truths.

            • By ninalanyon 2026-03-1111:25

              Object orientation is a great tool and I wouldn't be without it. But like all tools it has to be applied in the right way in the appropriate situation and is not universally useful.

            • By strken 2026-03-114:21

              I'm less concerned about "justified" and more about "useful". If you behave offensively to everyone around you, then you have become your own worst enemy in the war of ideas.

              Ignaz Semmelweis was right. He also died in an asylum, having utterly failed to convince doctors to wash their hands between patients.

        • By rramadass 2026-03-1017:193 reply

          Alan Kay himself said this quote is taken out-of-context and so people need to stop repeating it - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11799963

          • By justin66 2026-03-1018:031 reply

            > and so people need to stop repeating it

            That would seem to be your sentiment, not his, based on the link you shared. Rather than being censorious he shared a nice story on the matter.

            • By rramadass 2026-03-1020:152 reply

              No, it is not my sentiment nor am i being censorious.

              It can be inferred from Kay's own words. He probably was just poking fun in a tongue-in-cheek manner often seen amongst larger-than-life figures.

              John Backus called Edsger Dijkstra arrogant since the latter was highly critical of the former's research in functional programming (not the substance but the hyping). Kay was probably riffing off of that.

              The problem is that a lot of noobs/kids/oldies-who-should-know-better often dismiss(!) Dijkstra's work because of this silly quote. Thus in this case, a "nice story" is actually an obstacle to people reading Dijkstra.

              • By justin66 2026-03-1021:061 reply

                > Kay was probably riffing off of that.

                You don't need to hypothesize about all this, to put things in their proper context you could listen to the speech where he famously said it.

                https://youtu.be/aYT2se94eU0?t=324

                • By rramadass 2026-03-113:21

                  Yeah, i knew of the video. That somewhat proves the point i make here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47331352

                  People only focus on that phrase since it makes a nice "talking point" and ignore all the other interesting things from Kay's talk. For example; i never knew that most of Euler's proofs were wrong w.r.t. rigorous approach as defined today!

              • By messe 2026-03-1021:201 reply

                > It can be inferred from Kay's own words. He probably was just poking fun in a tongue-in-cheek manner often seen amongst larger-than-life figures.

                ...is that not obvious from the original quote? Maybe it's a cultural difference (I'm from Ireland), but that's how I've always interpreted and it's never occurred to me that people took it seriously or as anything other than tongue in cheek.

                • By rramadass 2026-03-113:10

                  The problem is with folks who don't know/have never read (seriously that is) Dijkstra.

                  For example, every time somebody posts something about Dijkstra on HN/etc. somebody will trot out this silly quote and then others pile on (since it requires no effort) and derail any interesting conversation.

                  It is human nature to have an opinion on everything and mediocrity often takes great pleasure in tearing down the greats (i mean the true ones) in order to soothe their own egos (since they know they don't measure up) i.e. "see? the great one is as flawed/mundane as us and i am showing him up".

                  And Dijkstra was Dutch who are famously known to be blunt which is often perceived as arrogance by others :-)

          • By vanderZwan 2026-03-1112:531 reply

            The quote makes much more sense as an in-joke between two like-minded people, because Alan Kay isn't exactly humble himself nor does he avoid provocative statements.

            And speaking as a Dutch man, given the kind of humor we have I'm pretty certain Dijkstra appreciated a good roast like that too.

            • By rramadass 2026-03-1114:321 reply

              The actual context is in this video where Kay makes the comment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47328782

              • By vanderZwan 2026-03-1114:571 reply

                Have seen that presentation, but that still does not give the full context. At least, I don't think it is obvious from the video alone whether this remark was a friendly jab between friends, or whether it was a stereotypical vicious academic back-and-forth between to big names in a field.

                • By rramadass 2026-03-1115:13

                  I think this is the sequence that led to the quote.

                  1) People are miffed with Dijkstra due to his abrasive style.

                  2) John Backus has a back-and-forth with Dijkstra where he calls him arrogant.

                  3) The community knows of the above.

                  4) Dijkstra writes paper comparing Computer Science approaches in Europe vs. USA in his usual sharp style.

                  5) American Scientists perceive the above as dissing them and take umbrage.

                  6) Alan Kay writes a paper rebutting Dijkstra's paper pointing out that most of the Software is written on the American side.

                  7) Alan Kay then disses Dijkstra with this quote half-in-annoyance/half-tongue-in-cheek.

          • By masfuerte 2026-03-1019:271 reply

            Weirdly, that ten-year-old Alan Kay comment is shown as "1 day ago" by HN.

            • By dang 2026-03-1020:07

              Oof - not sure what happened there but it was probably a fat-fingered thing from me merging today's threads. Fixed now. Thanks for the heads-up!

      • By PaulRobinson 2026-03-1022:02

        That's a wild ride of passive aggressive academia in a field I know something about. A rare treat. Thanks for sharing!

  • By Plasmoid 2026-03-1015:186 reply

    Fun story - at Oxford they like to name buildings after important people. Dr Hoare was nominated to have a house named after him. This presented the university with a dilemma of having a literal `Hoare house` (pronounced whore).

    I can't remember what Oxford did to resolve this, but I think they settled on `C.A.R. Hoare Residence`.

    • By davidhunter 2026-03-1016:242 reply

      There's the Tony Hoare Room [1] in the Robert Hooke Building. We held our Reinforcement Learning reading group there.

      [1] https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/people/jennifer.watson/tonyhoare.htm...

      • By pbhjpbhj 2026-03-1018:501 reply

        >our Reinforcement Learning reading group there //

        Anyone else, like me, imagining ML models embodied as Androids attending what amounts to a book club? (I can't quite shake the image of them being little CodeBullets with CRT monitors for heads either.)

        • By mghackerlady 2026-03-1113:25

          The CB reference is appreciated, he isn't talked about enough here

      • By 2001zhaozhao 2026-03-1018:31

        I had countless lectures and classes there

    • By jdswain 2026-03-1022:12

      Our Graphics Lab at University used to be in an old house opposite a fish and chip shop. The people at the fish and chip shop were suspicious of our lab as all they saw was young men (mostly) entering and leaving at all hours of the night. We really missed an opportunity to name it "Hoare House" after one of our favourite computer scientists.

    • By riazrizvi 2026-03-1016:39

      Cowards.

    • By petesergeant 2026-03-1016:04

      I was awarded the CAR Hoare prize from university, which is marginally better than the hoare prize I suppose

    • By cucumber3732842 2026-03-1016:402 reply

      Shame the university takes itself so seriously. The illustrative example of overloading would have been pertinent to his subject of expertise.

      • By skybrian 2026-03-1017:002 reply

        I mean, I like puns but they're a flash in the pan. Jokes get old after a while and you don't want to embed them in something fairly permanent like a building name.

        • By yborg 2026-03-1017:292 reply

          This particular word for the oldest profession goes back to Old English. I am fairly sure it would outlive the building.

          • By skybrian 2026-03-1018:02

            If the problem is when the joke lives on amusing undergrads long after you've tired of it, that just makes it worse.

          • By Lio 2026-03-1021:361 reply

            Wait until they hear about what Magpie Lane in Oxford used to be called.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpie_Lane,_Oxford

            • By windward 2026-03-119:47

              A historical bawdy pun is one of the most Oxfordian things I can think of. If we can incorporate a man in drag, we're in real business.

        • By cucumber3732842 2026-03-1017:28

          "Surely you've all heard of the Hoare house on campus?" seems like a pretty timeless way to a) keep people from dozing off during that bit of lecture b) cause a whole bunch of people to remember who this guy was and what he did.

      • By bell-cot 2026-03-1018:13

        "Hoare House" would trigger millions of idiots, from rude little children to pontifying alpha ideologues. In perpetuity.

        The University was correct in saying "nope" to the endless distractions, misery, and overhead of having to deal with that.

    • By jgrahamc 2026-03-1018:432 reply

      Imagine being a world-famous computer scientist and dying and one of the top threads in a discussion of your life is juvenile crap about how your name sounds like "whore".

      • By mghackerlady 2026-03-1113:27

        Chill out, I doubt he would've minded and humorous anecdotes are great ways to grieve

      • By fuzzylightbulb 2026-03-1019:011 reply

        Imagine being an adult human but not being able to extract a tiny chuckle from such a silly thing.

        • By jgrahamc 2026-03-1019:041 reply

          Well, I do have a rather special last name which makes me susceptible.

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