Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

2025-05-1319:17242551www.wired.com

Airbnb's CEO is spending hundreds of millions to relaunch his travel company as an all-purpose service app. Fitness! Food! Microdermabrasion? A WIRED exclusive.

As Brian Chesky tells it, the reinvention of Airbnb started with the coup at OpenAI. On November 17, 2023, the board of OpenAI fired company CEO Sam Altman. His friend Chesky leapt into action—publicly defending his pal on X, getting on the phone with Microsoft’s CEO, and throwing himself into the thick of Altman’s battle to retake OpenAI. Five days later Altman prevailed, and Chesky—“I was so jacked up,” he says—turned his buzzing mind to his own company, Airbnb.

Thanksgiving weekend was beginning. The Chesky extended family had already held their turkey get-together a week earlier, and the Airbnb CEO had no holiday plan. He was completely alone in his sprawling San Francisco apartment except for Sophie, his golden retriever.

Still wired out of his mind from the cathartic corporate rescue, Chesky began to write. He wanted to bust the company he’d cofounded out of its pigeonhole of short-term home rentals. Amazon, he was fond of pointing out, was first an online bookstore before it became the everything store. Chesky had long believed that Airbnb should expand in a similar way. But things kept getting in the way—dealing with safety issues, fighting regulation, coping with the existential crisis of a global pandemic. The company was in danger of being tagged with the word that ambitious entrepreneurs dread like the plague: mature.

Now Chesky was emboldened to lay out his vision. Home rentals are simply a service, so why stop there? Airbnb could be the platform for booking all sorts of services. While other apps cover specific sectors—food delivery, home maintenance, car rides—Chesky figured that Airbnb’s experience in attractively displaying homes, vetting hosts, and responding to crises could make it more trustworthy than competitors and therefore the go-to option for virtually anything.

In a frantic typing spree at the dining room table, on the couch, the bed, and at times in his office, Chesky specced out how he would redesign the Airbnb app. Its users—now at 2 billion—would open up the app not only at vacation time but whenever they needed to find a portrait photographer, a personal trainer, or someone to cook their meals. Chesky reasoned that Airbnb would need to significantly strengthen its identity verification. He even thought he could get people to use the app as a credential, something as respected as a government-issued ID. If he could transform Airbnb into a storefront for real-world services, Chesky thought, he’d catapult his company from a nearly $10-billion-a-year business into one that boasted membership in tech’s pantheon.

Over the next few days, Chesky spilled these thoughts into an Evernote document. “I was basically going from room to room just pouring out this stream-of-consciousness manifesto, like Jack Kerouac writing On the Road,” he says, referring to the frenetically produced single roll of teletype paper that catalyzed the beat movement. “I dusted off all my ideas from 2012 to 2016,” Chesky tells me. “I basically said, ‘We’re not just a vacation app—we’re going to be a platform, a community.’” By Friday he had around 10,000 words, “incomprehensible to anyone but me.” He began to refine it, and by the time the weekend was over, Chesky had distilled his document down to 1,500 words.

PHOTOGRAPH: GABRIELA HASBUN

After the holiday, Chesky gathered his leadership team into a conference room. He handed the team copies of his memo à la Jeff Bezos and waited as his direct reports took it in. “Usually when I share ideas, people aren’t bought in,” he says. “But this time, there wasn’t a lot of feedback. People were really excited. And two years later, that document will now be executed with an exacting detail to what I wrote.”

This month, Airbnb will launch the first stage of its more than $200 million reinvention: a panoply of more than 10,000 vendors peddling a swath of services in 260 cities in 30 countries. It is also revitalizing an unsuccessful experiment the company began in 2016: offering bespoke local activities, or what it calls “experiences.” The next stage, launch date unspecified, involves making your profile on Airbnb so robust that it’s “almost like a passport,” as Chesky puts it. After that comes a deep immersion into AI: Inspired by his relationship with Altman, Chesky hopes to build the ultimate agent, a super-concierge who starts off handling customer service and eventually knows you well enough to plan your travel and maybe the rest of your life.

“Brian’s been badly underrated as a tech CEO,” Altman says of his friend. “He's not usually mentioned in the same breath as Larry Page or Bill Gates, but I think he is on a path to build as big of a company.”

That’s a stretch—Airbnb is nowhere near the size of those oligarchic powers. But Chesky was feeling the need for big changes; While impressive, Airbnb’s growth rate doesn’t suggest that the company will soon reach the trillion-dollar heights of Google and Microsoft. “I’m 43 and at a crossroads, where I can either be almost done or just getting started,” he tells me. “There's a scenario where I'm basically done. Airbnb is very profitable. We've kind of, mostly, nailed vacation rentals. But we can do more.”

In early April, I visited Chesky at the company’s lavish San Francisco headquarters. The relaunch was five weeks away. The second floor—where signs warn employees not to bring visitors—had become a sprawling eyes-only command center. The walls were covered with dozens of large poster boards, each one featuring a city, that read as if a group of McKinsey consultants had tackled a fourth-grade geography assignment. Austin, Texas, was written up as “a funky come-as-you-are kind of place” with a handful of “first principles,” one of which was “Outlaw of Texas,” with pointers to food trucks and vintage markets. Another so-called principle was “Live and Alive,” referring to music venues and bat watching; a third was “Dam Lakes,” referring to various water sports. Other blindingly obvious notations included barbeque, tacos, and the two-step. The Paris poster painted a “revolutionary” city marked by slow living and enduring culture.

Chesky strode up and greeted me enthusiastically. Dressed in a slim T-shirt that exposed his swole physique, he bounced on his heels with a jittery energy that reminded me of the first time I met him, in January 2009. He had just joined Y Combinator’s famous program for startups, and he and his classmates were at a party at the home of YC cofounder Paul Graham. (Graham told me then that he thought Airbnb’s business plan was crazy but was impressed by their determination.) I mentioned to Chesky that I was headed to Washington, DC, for Barack Obama’s inauguration, and he and his cofounders immediately tried to convince me to use their service to sleep on someone’s couch. I declined, but somehow over the next 15 years they managed to sell the idea to 2 billion people, including me, and now the company has a market cap worth more than Marriott.

Chesky ushers me into a conference room to get a preview of the new Airbnb app. His engineers and designers have rebuilt the app from scratch, and he waves around a stick of lip balm as a talisman as he talks me through the redesign. Also in the room is his product marketing head, Jud Coplan, while his vice president of design, Teo Connor, Zooms in from London. While customers likely think of Airbnb as a travel company, its leaders view the operation as an achievement in design. Which makes sense; both Chesky and his cofounder Joe Gebbia were students at the Rhode Island School of Design.

Airbnb's new user interface featuring experiences and services.COURTESY OF AIRBNB

Chesky explains that historically, people used Airbnb only once or twice a year, so its design had to be exceptionally simple. Now the company is retooling for more frequent access. Open the app, and you see a trio of icons that act as gateways to the expanded functions. Within minutes Chesky and his lieutenants are applauding the cheery, retro style of the icons—a house for traditional rentals, a hotel bell for services, and a Jules Verne-ish hot-air balloon representing activities. “We really thought deeply about the metaphor—what was the right visual to express an experience?” says Connor. Once they decided on the balloon, they drilled into how much fire should belch from the basket. The icons were drawn by a former Apple designer whose name Chesky would not divulge. “He’s a bit of a secret weapon,” he says.

A less-secret weapon is Chesky’s collaboration with the iconic, also ex-Apple, industrial designer Jony Ive. Chesky’s north star, it should be said, is Apple. “Steve Jobs, to me, is like Michelangelo or da Vinci,” he says. Despite never meeting Jobs, “I feel like I know him deeply, professionally, in a way that few people ever did, in a way that you only possibly could by starting a tech company as a creative person and going on a rocket ship,” Chesky says. By hiring Ive’s LoveFrom company and working with Jobs’ key collaborator, Chesky gets a taste of the famous Jobs/Ive dynamic. Ive himself doesn’t make that comparison, but he does praise Chesky’s design chops. “There are certain tactical things where I hope that sometimes I'm of use to Brian, just as as a fellow designer,” Ive says. “But the majority of our work has been around ideas and the way we frame problems and understand opportunities.”

Another key part of the app is the profile page. “You need trust,” Chesky says—meaning a verifiable identity. Airbnb has been vetting the new vendors, which it calls “service hosts.” For months, Chesky says, an army of background researchers has been scrutinizing the résumés, licenses, and recommendations of chefs, photographers, manicurists, masseuses, hair stylists, makeup artists, personal trainers, and aestheticians who provide spa treatments such as facials and microdermabrasions. They’re all being professionally photographed.

Airbnb's new guest profile interface.COURTESY OF AIRBNB

For the next phase—turning Airbnb’s user profiles into a primary internet ID—Connor and her team have engaged in some far-out experimentation. She rattles off a list of technologies they’ve been exploring, including biometrics, holograms, and the reactive inks used to deter counterfeiting on official ID cards. But it’s far from easy to become a private identity utility (hello, Facebook), and even Chesky notes that getting governments to accept an Airbnb credential to verify identity is “a stretch goal.”

Now that a whole slew of people will have new reasons to chat with each other and coordinate plans, Airbnb has also enhanced its messaging functions. Fellow travelers who share experiences can form communities, stay in touch, even share videos and photos. “I don’t know if I want to call it a social network, because of the stigma associated with it,” says Ari Balogh, Airbnb’s CTO. So they employ a fuzzier term. “We think of it as a connection platform,” he says. “You’re going to see us build a lot more stuff on top of it, although we’re not an advertising system, thank goodness.” (My own observation is that any for-profit company that can host advertising will, but whatever.)

This brings us to the services—the heart and soul of this reinvention. Those now on offer seem designed to augment an Airbnb stay with all the stuff that drives up your bill at a luxury resort, like a DIY White Lotus. It will be interesting to see how the company handles the inevitable cases of food poisoning or bad haircuts (and skeezy customers), but Airbnb can draw on its 17 years of experience with dirty sheets, all-night discos on the ground floor, or a host who is literally terrorizing you. Eventually, Chesky says, Airbnb will offer “hundreds” of services, perhaps as far-ranging as plumbing, cleaning, car repair, guitar lessons, and tutoring, and then take its 15 percent fee.

Crafted cuts by Bryan, Chicago, IllinoisCOURTESY OF AIRBNB; LYNDON FRENCH
Train with Steve Jordan, Trainer to the Stars, Los Angeles, CaliforniaCOURTESY OF AIRBNB; JACKIE BEALE

The other key feature of the company’s reinvention, of course, is Experiences. If the idea sounds familiar, that’s because Airbnb launched a service by that name almost a decade ago, with pretty much the same pitch: special activities for travelers, like architects leading tours of buildings or chefs showing people how to fold dumplings.

It flopped, although Airbnb never formally pulled the plug. Chesky’s excuses include tactical errors: After a big initial splash, the company didn’t follow up with more marketing, and it didn’t establish a strong flow of new experiences. But the big reason, he says, was that it was too early. Now the company has five times as many customers and an ecosystem to support the effort. “It was like our Newton,” says Chesky, referring to Apple’s handheld device that predated the iPhone. (Another Apple reference, for those keeping score.)

Chesky’s crew has arranged for more than 22,000 experiences in 650 cities, including a smattering of so-called “originals,” with people at the top of their field—star athletes, Michelin chefs, famous celebrities. In the pipeline is Conan O’Brien selling a perch behind a mic in his podcast studio. (Don’t expect it to air.) Taking a lesson from his earlier flop, Chesky has planned a steady cadence of these short-term promotional stunts, which, of course, is what the Conan experience ultimately is. “We’re going to have thousands of originals and maybe one day hundreds of thousands—a regular drumbeat of some of the biggest iconic celebrities,” Chesky says.

He shows me how someone could take a trip to, say, Mexico City and book experiences instantly. “Fun fact—I’ve always dreamed of being a professional wrestler in Mexico. I want to be a luchador!” he tells me, then immediately regrets it. Regardless: In an Airbnb experience, he says, you can meet a real luchador, get in the ring with him, and learn some moves. Can you keep the mask?

“Probably,” says Chesky. In any case, you’d share the photos with others in your group. (But don’t call it a social network.)

Megan Thee Stallion in Los Angeles, CaliforniaCOURTESY OF AIRBNB; ADRIENNE RAQUEL
Horseback riding through four hidden temples of the Inkas, Cusco, PeruCOURTESY OF AIRBNB; PAZ OLIVARES-DROGUETT

Airbnb’s planned transformation tracks with another reinvention: that of its leader.

Chesky had originally taken the title of CEO over his two pretty-much equal cofounders because his personality was more forward facing—it wasn’t even formalized until 2010. But then, in 2011, the company had its first real crisis when a host publicly shared a horror story about how an Airbnb guest from deep, deep hell pillaged and trashed her home. What wasn’t stolen—the customer broke into a locked closet to grab a passport, cash, and heirloom jewelry—was ravaged and burned in the fireplace. “The death-like smell from the bathroom was frightening,” wrote the host. The story threatened to destroy the cheerful person-to-person vibe the company had cultivated. It didn’t help that Airbnb’s initial response was clueless and weak.

Chesky stepped up to become the face of the company and instituted overdue safety protocols. Over the next few years, Chesky cemented his alpha status. In 2018 his cofounder Joe Gebbia stepped down from daily duties, though he still sits on the board. (Recently Gebbia has been in the news for his very public participation in DOGE’s remaking of the US government. When asked about it at a Q and A session with employees, Chesky said that Gebbia was free to have his own opinions, but they are not the company’s. Chesky did not attend Trump’s inauguration.) The third cofounder, Nathan Blecharczyk, is still with the company, though it’s notable that as I sat in meetings with over a dozen executives, the only time his name came up was when I mentioned it.

Chesky was totally in charge during the pandemic, when Airbnb lost 80 percent of its business in eight weeks. He laid off a quarter of the staff. Now that bookings surpass pre-2020 levels, he thinks the company is stronger. And he learned a big lesson: “The pandemic was the turning point of the company,” he says. “My first principle became ‘Don’t apologize for how you want to run your company.’ Most of all you should not apologize for being in the details. The number one thing people want to do is keep you out of the details.”

When Chesky shared some of these views at a Y Combinator event in 2024, Paul Graham was inspired to write an essay called “Founder Mode.” Graham used Chesky’s story to argue that only the person who created a company knows what is best, and the worst mistake is to listen to management types who haven’t built their own. The essay struck a nerve; people were stopping Chesky on the street and yelling “Founder mode!” Someone dropped off a baseball hat for him with those words; it now sits on a shelf in his conference room.

Chesky, meanwhile, has been deep in the details, especially on this reinvention, itself kind of a classic founder move. “I did review work before the pandemic, but people kind of hated it. There were negative associations to a CEO reviewing everything; it’s considered micromanaging.” Also, his idol Steve Jobs was famous—infamous?—for his unsparing criticism. Chesky contends that once he went all-in on dishing out criticism, with no sheepishness, people seemed happier. But even if they weren’t, he’d do it anyway. Curious to see how this worked, I arranged to attend a Chesky review.

Gathered in a conference room, the design and engineering teams presented near-final app tweaks affecting how hosts set up their services. Chesky seemed fairly pleased with what he was seeing—so much so that he apologized to me afterward that I didn’t get to see him go animal with his underlings. Nonetheless, even during this lovefest of a product review, Chesky babbled a constant stream of minor corrections. The cursor is oddly centered … Those visual cues are a little confusing … We need a subtle drop shadow here … The next line doesn’t seem centered vertically … That address input is pretty awkward … That button looks oddly short, is it supposed to be that short? … That shimmer, do we think we need it? Get rid of it … That top module doesn’t make sense … We need to rewrite all the copy on this page … I think we need a better empty state … That title’s not clear …

The group shuffles out satisfied and a bit stunned that they got away so easy. But when I meet Chesky a day later to sum things up, he tells me that I’d just missed a spicier product review. Then he gets serious, explaining what the reinvention means to him. “I felt a little bit like the vacation rental guy,” he says. “Like we as a company are a little underestimated.” He brings up Apple again, saying that both companies embody the idea that a business relationship can generate emotion. “My ambition is kind of like the ambition of an artist and designer,” he says.

At that point Chesky gets a little woo. “Magic, in hindsight, is not technology,” he says as he reflects on Apple’s wizardry. What he’s realized is that magic lies in forging connections with those who offer you a bed, a microdermabrasion, a sparring match in a lucha libre ring. “The magic that is timeless is, like, the stuff you remember at the end of your life.”

He lets that sit for a minute. Then he puts a cap on that insight, sounding less like a CEO than a life coach. “I’ve never had a dream with a device in it,” he says. Leave it to the subconscious to highlight what matters. That said, his day dreams certainly involve a new kind of device. In his off hours he’s helping with a secret project headed by his friends Altman and Ive to create a device that Altman says is the next step beyond computers. (“This is not theoretical memo-swapping,” Altman tells me. “We’re hard at work on it, prototyping.”)

But that’s somewhere off in the future. In the realm of products that actually exist in the world, Chesky will have to face competition from dozens of domain leaders including Yelp, Instacart, DoorDash, Ticketmaster, Hotels.com, Tinder, OpenTable, and Craigslist, to name but a few. You can probably add Apple, Meta, and Microsoft, since Chesky wants Airbnb to be a universal credential and what certainly looks like a social network. Even Steve Jobs might have blinked at taking on that crowd all at once.

Images styled by Jillian Knox.
Featuring: Liv Skinner, Liv Well and Francesca Lopez, Zinnia Wildflower Bakehouse

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Comments

  • By levocardia 2025-05-143:5219 reply

    Maybe I'm in the minority but I've generally had very good -- or at least, "good as I expected" -- experiences at AirBnbs, even recently. Sometimes I've stayed with rich friends who book nice places, and the experience is, as expected, very nice. Many other times I have stayed at bottom-of-the-barrel places, which were, as expected, bottom of the barrel flophouses. But tolerably so, and true to the advertisement (funny how they all have that exact same fake black leather futon though).

    People say hotels are as cheap, but they never have the same amenities, and the location in town is often worse. An AirBnb with a kitchen is essentially $20-30 cheaper per day than a hotel without one. Add to that laundry, more privacy, and other perks and it's not really a fair comparison. It does seem like there are more hotel resellers and leasing companies using it as a stopgap between tenants, which I understand, but hate.

    I get why they want to be an "everything app" (rich people have more money to spend on "experiences"), but other commenters are spot-on regarding the dangers of taking their eye off the ball. Seems like a better use of company attention would be to really boost and reward the genuine hosts that put their heart into it, and at least put in a modest amount of friction to slow down the corporate resellers with barebones apartments in half-remodeled buildings.

    • I think the people who say hotels are better than AirBnb aren't traveling with kids.

      Having an actual kitchen when you travel with kids is great. Having actual separate bedrooms so we don't have to go to sleep at 8pm when the kids go to sleep is great. Being able to do laundry without tracking down a laundromat or pay exorbitant hotel prices is great. Having a living room or similar area with at least a few square metres of floor space where kids can sprawl is great.

      • By electric_muse 2025-05-1412:216 reply

        Perhaps the difference is that you’ve been fortunate enough to never need Airbnb support to help you on something serious.

        When things go well, it’s amazing. When things go poorly, you realize how anti-guest the policies and support team behave.

        That’s when it changed for me. I realized how pro-host, anti-guest they are. Hotels generally seem to care when something goes wrong. Airbnb support behaves like you have inconvenienced them by raising the issue.

        • By mike_hearn 2025-05-1418:271 reply

          Yeah, Chesky is crazy if he thinks people are going to trust AirBnb enough to use it as a passport. You pay them money but their support is what you'd expect from Google's free services, i.e. nonexistent.

          For me AirBnb has the dubious distinction of being the only online service I'm banned from, and I have no idea why. I barely used it and the few times I did the hosts were happy. One day I tried to log in and the app wouldn't work properly. I filed a support ticket and they told me they weren't going to tell me anything and there was no appeals process either. And that was that. My guess is I got IP clustered with another person whose account was legit banned, but really, who knows. What's the point of the ID verification process if they act like a free webmail operation anyway?

          With booking.com and hotels, you're paying about the same but avoid the BS that comes with Airbnb. It's a much more reliable and predictable experience. The idea of people requiring Airbnb for anything more important than a vacation rental is horrifying.

          • By baybayblonde 2025-05-1815:31

            Are you based in EU? If so, you should make a GDPR request to understand why you have been banned (ask ChatGPT or an equivalent to write one and for instructions in general to have a nice email that is based on GDPR).

        • By ses1984 2025-05-1413:593 reply

          Not every hotel cares.

          The hotel I’m staying at right now is dirty as fuck.

          The valve for the shower does not operate properly, the water pressure is extremely low and it barely gets above 90F. Other rooms in the same hotel have a different valve and the showers work fine.

          “We will send a maintenance person right away” it’s been a week.

          There is old food under and behind my bed.

          They empty trash in the hall once a week, it fills up in two days.

          They advertise laundry but the driers are all out of order. Apparently the only reason is the change collection bucket is full, the owner doesn’t trust anyone but himself to empty it, but he’s two states away.

          I can hear everything through all the walls around me. I can hear people fart.

          This hotel has 4.5 stars with >2000 reviews.

          • By turtlebits 2025-05-1415:131 reply

            An unclean room would be an instant nope for me. Ask for a refund or file a chargeback.

            • By ses1984 2025-05-1416:181 reply

              I’m here because my dad had an aneurysm on vacation and idgaf

              • By donjigweed 2025-05-1419:53

                Sorry to hear that. Sister had an aneurysm a couple years ago. They coiled it, lasted two weeks, then gone. Best wishes for your father and your family.

          • By projectazorian 2025-05-1415:122 reply

            Let me guess, New York City?

            • By bgnn 2025-05-1419:311 reply

              Worst hotels I've ever stayed, in the whole world, were indeed in NYC.

              • By ghaff 2025-05-1422:34

                Known chains I've stayed in there have generally been fine--but be prepared for fairly high prices and generally small rooms. Also, any sort of a view is very hit and miss given how close many tall buildings are to each other. I have had some very nice rooms but it's partly luck of the draw and partly someone else paying the tab.

            • By ses1984 2025-05-1416:18

              South Dakota.

        • By s-kymon 2025-05-1413:17

          I'm dealing with this right now and it has definitely shifted my perception of the platform

        • By NBJack 2025-05-1514:46

          Oh wow. Do I have a story about one of their competitors.

          I booked a cabin via VRBO for a few nights as a celebration. It was somewhat remote, but the architecture was neat, and it was a decent deal for my budget. There was some weird cotton-like stuff and...snapping?...in one of the walls that was a bit off-putting, but nothing seemed serious.

          Then, night came.

          I awoke in my bedroom to something moving. Bleary eyed, I turned on the bedside light and saw something flitting almost silently in the darkness. It seemed like a large insect perhaps to my blurred vision. But whether it was the size or the weird sounds, it eventually clicked: it was a bat trapped in the high-ceiling bedroom.

          So, after swiftly getting out of the room, doing some hasty research, and calling animal control, I learned two things. First, bat encounters in the area have a standing policy to IMMEDIATELY see the nearest emergency room to receive a rabies vaccination. It turns out bat bites can be super-tiny and difficult to detect, and they are carriers.

          Second, I struggled to convince the limited support channels at VRBO that there was a freaking bat in their property. There was no real emergency line for support I could locate at the time, and I really hope that the information I left would somehow be used to prevent someone else using said property from, ya know, potentially contracting rabies.

          To this day, I find myself more wary of property encounters. I don't think I ever got a refund for that debacle, but admittedly I may have been a bit more focused on my mortality.

        • By freddie_mercury 2025-05-153:55

          > Hotels generally seem to care when something goes wrong.

          Not really. When was the last time you stayed at a non-chain 2-star hotel in Asia?

          Hotel chains care because they care about their brand. Not that's a result of being a chain, not of being a hotel.

        • By Singletoned 2025-05-1620:00

          I think this is different in different countries. I use them a lot in the UK and the customer support has been excellent.

      • By cameldrv 2025-05-147:226 reply

        There are plenty of hotels where you can get multiple rooms and a washing machine. When traveling with kids, one big advantage of hotels is predictability.

        The last thing I want to do when I'm pulling in after a long flight an hour past the kids' bedtime is to deal with potentially dealbreaking problems with the place. In a hotel, they generally have maintenance on staff and extra rooms to switch into in case of problems. Generally with Airbnb, the staff is 30 minutes away and is annoyed that you've called them. Most of the time, everything is fine, but there can be snafus with locks, plumbing, cleanliness, etc, and kids make these more complicated. This is all not to mention being asked to strip beds, take out trash, etc, after you've paid thousands of dollars, including cleaning fees for the place.

        • By sksksk 2025-05-147:483 reply

          In Europe certainly, it’s very expensive to get anything close to what you’re describing in a hotel.

          Just having a separate living room and bedroom in your hotel can be hundreds more per night.

          Interconnecting rooms are rare, you can request it, and it’ll be subject to availability. So you can’t even guarantee you’ll have one.

          • By paradox242 2025-05-1411:483 reply

            This is the same everywhere I have been in the US.

            • By WorldMaker 2025-05-1413:511 reply

              A trick is to know which brands you need. Marriott's Residence Inn is a big reliable one (for multiple "rooms" and kitchen/laundry) that exists almost everywhere in the US. It's a part of the whole Marriott system and often in tourism lulls in various cities has deals that keep it comparatively well priced with other Marriotts in that city and will let you use Marriott points to further defray costs.

              Hilton and IHG both have similar brands, but their exact names escape me at the moments. The search keywords are "extended stay" and "apartment hotels".

              • By toomuchtodo 2025-05-165:54

                Comfort Suites by Choice Hotels as well.

            • By ghaff 2025-05-1413:37

              Depends where you are. Maybe in expensive cities where space is at a premium. But suite hotels (with various levels of kitchenette/kitchen) in the US are not, in my experience, notably more expensive--though often have simpler facilities--than more conventional hotels. (Bedroom may not be actually a different room from living room area but is often at least somewhat separated. So may not help with kids. Stay in this type of hotel in the US a lot.)

            • By MyPasswordSucks 2025-05-1417:08

              Have you been anywhere besides NYC and Vegas?

          • By nothercastle 2025-05-154:11

            Airbnb is always over 200 a night after fees

        • By snowwrestler 2025-05-1411:431 reply

          The parent led off with the value of having a full kitchen, which you have dropped—obviously because there are extremely few hotels in the U.S. that include this.

          Your description of how well hotels are run does not match my experience. I’m sure it’s true of very nice hotels. It’s also true of very nice AirBnB’s! And VRBOs, which are not as well known but similar idea.

          • By cameldrv 2025-05-1420:311 reply

            There are a whole lot of hotels that include a kitchen in the U.S. Many extended stay/suite hotels have a stove, microwave, utensils/dishes, refrigerator, and some a dishwasher. It's more rare to have an oven, although I have seen it.

            • By throw272723 2025-05-1516:46

              There are a tiny amount of hotels that have a full kitchen. Maybe less than 3% of hotels have a full kitchen.

              Whereas I would not be surprised if more than 80% of Airbnb's have a full kitchen or access to one.

        • By jdminhbg 2025-05-1410:003 reply

          I have never stayed in a hotel room that had a washing machine.

          • By poulsbohemian 2025-05-1418:41

            There are long-term stay hotels that generally cater to business clientele, plus most of the chains have a laundry room somewhere on premise for guest use.

          • By sjsdaiuasgdia 2025-05-1410:091 reply

            Plenty of hotels have washers/dryers for guests to use, sometimes having a laundry room on each floor of the hotel.

            • By jdminhbg 2025-05-1410:531 reply

              I haven’t seen one on each floor, either, but that’s still not as convenient as one in the room that’s yours so you can run it while you’re out to dinner or overnight while you sleep. It’s shared so you have to plan around it.

              • By sgarland 2025-05-1411:422 reply

                I have stayed at many hotels of varying degrees of quality all over the U.S., and I have never, not once, seen the laundry being used. It’s always been available.

                • By axus 2025-05-1413:28

                  On my trips outside the US, the hotel laundry rooms are usually busy. Enough that many of the hotels show individual machine status from a top-level page in the TV menu.

                • By ghaff 2025-05-1412:33

                  They're not common but the hotel I often stay in London has a laundry room that I use pretty routinely on longer trips.

          • By itake 2025-05-1410:43

            Maybe regional. This is common in mid-tier hotels in Asia and hostels across the world.

        • By hoseyor 2025-05-1410:351 reply

          Do you mind elaboration on at least what region of the world you are talking about? I think this whole main thread is suffering from the globalism v diversity collision; we are a global group of people trying to compare regionally, nationally, local, or even personal experiences that differ so widely that it regresses into noise.

          My experience is that e.g. it used to be a lot easier in the USA to find hotels that even just had a kitchenette or even a pay to wash “laundromat” (which is what I assume you are referring to), but maybe that is also just my personal experience. But my sense is that those offerings have been in stark decline especially over the last decades, and especially outside of the inland western half of the country that in some places is still a kind of real America that has not yet succumbed to con job level corporate practices.

          It seems fairly accurate to include AB&B in those who have succumbed to “enshitification” for whatever of the several reasons that may be. In the case of AB&B it feels like MBA Wall Street types pressed to slide or chip away at ever more standards to drive “growth” and/or “cost cutting”, the only two real tricks the number monkeys have in their bag.

          • By timr 2025-05-1411:441 reply

            > My experience is that e.g. it used to be a lot easier in the USA to find hotels that even just had a kitchenette or even a pay to wash “laundromat” (which is what I assume you are referring to), but maybe that is also just my personal experience. But my sense is that those offerings have been in stark decline especially over the last decades, and especially outside of the inland western half of the country that in some places is still a kind of real America that has not yet succumbed to con job level corporate practices.

            American here. The opposite is true -- there used to be few of these, and they were "upscale". Now there are tons of different low-end chains that specialize in it. Homewood Suites, Marriott/Hilton/Sheraton Suites, Embassy Suites, DoubleTree, Hyatt Place, Springhill Suites, and maybe half a dozen others.

            These are usually, but not exclusively, located in areas that are a bit more rural -- I don't know if you'll find one in Manhattan, for example, and you'll see definitely them by pretty much every major freeway interchange. But I've stayed in one on Maui, in San Diego, and near the airport in SF, so you see them in "tourist" places as well.

            • By BobaFloutist 2025-05-1414:371 reply

              Sorry, Embassy Suites is a "low-end" chain??

              • By timr 2025-05-1414:441 reply

                No, I just was typing fast and grouped everything together I could think of. Embassy Suites is one of the OG "suite" chains that I'd characterize as "formerly high end, maybe mid-level right now", but YMMV.

                • By ghaff 2025-05-1422:391 reply

                  I wouldn't characterize any of those as genuinely low-end which I'd reserve for things like Travelodge and below. Probably various shades of the midrange scale with some on the upper and some on the lower side. I'm in a Marriott SpringHill Suits at the moment which is boring but clean and comfortable enough.

                  • By timr 2025-05-165:49

                    Yeah, it varies. I think fundamentally you're paying for square footage, so bigger rooms will always be "mid-market", to some extent. The ones in tourist spots are fancier than the ones by Exit 5A of a freeway interchange in rural Nebraska.

                    The suite hotel I used in Maui, for example was pretty fancy: pool, restaurant, bar, gym, balcony rooms, etc. But the price point was certainly below equivalent hotels in the same area.

        • By parliament32 2025-05-1417:161 reply

          In North America, across hundreds of hotel stays, I have seen exactly zero ensuite washing machines. For extended stays, being able to kick off your laundry and leave for the day is absolutely priceless. Having to set timers and babysit coin-operated laundry on a different floor just isn't worth it, to the point where I'd rather just pay $$$ for hotel laundry service over using their communal laundry room.

          • By cameldrv 2025-05-1420:24

            A lot of "extended stay" hotels have this. One brand I've used and have had pretty good luck with is Sonder. They're not quite full service -- they have a spartan reception and want you to use their app for everything, but they do have multiple rooms, an adequate kitchen, and washing machines in the rooms.

        • By jillyboel 2025-05-1410:184 reply

          > There are plenty of hotels where you can get multiple rooms and a washing machine

          Ok... Can you show me some like that in the EU?

          > This is all not to mention being asked to strip beds, take out trash, etc, after you've paid thousands of dollars, including cleaning fees for the place.

          Just don't do that.

          • By johnbatch 2025-05-1412:13

            I staid at a hotel in Lisbon [1]that had a kitchen and washing machine. (And a kids club that would watch the kids)

            There ended up being an issue with the dryer not drying. So the hotel staff took a laundry basket of clothes and delivered them washed and folded the next morning. That level of service would not have happened in an Airbnb.

            [1] https://www.martinhal.com

          • By mvdtnz 2025-05-1421:431 reply

            > Ok... Can you show me some like that in the EU?

            Yes, trivially. There are filters for it on booking.com. Here's a link for rooms in Paris suitable for 2 adults and 2 kids with 2 bedrooms, a kitchen/kitchenette and a washing machine.

            https://www.booking.com/searchresults.en-gb.html?label=gen17...

            • By jillyboel 2025-05-1423:56

              Great, now look at the prices and compare that to your typical AirBnB.

          • By benimar 2025-05-1410:541 reply

            Most 4 start hotels and resorts have either connecting rooms or family rooms in Europe (the latter especially true for resorts). They are far less common on lower categories though. I suppose to book connecting room you might have to call sometimes rather than going through online platforms though. Hotel with kitchenette and washing are not that hard to find either. They certainly more common on location were people tend to spend longer stay rather than in touristic cities were people spend on average just a few nights (ie. mountain and seaside places were people sometimes spend weeks or even months), usually they call them aparthotels or suites depending or something like that.

            • By jillyboel 2025-05-1411:37

              Got some links? And how do their prices compare to the typical AirBnB?

          • By landgenoot 2025-05-1411:451 reply

            In Europe, this is mostly called an aparthotel. Or look out for keywords like suites or residences.

            This is different from Airbnb's where they abuse a residential building for short term stays.

            • By jillyboel 2025-05-1412:08

              > this is mostly called an aparthotel

              Which is quite different from, and far more expensive than, a hotel which GP was talking about.

              > This is different from Airbnb's where they abuse a residential building for short term stays.

              As allowed by local regulations, so not quite abuse. Sure it used to be the wild west several years ago but it's been cracked down on since.

      • By chii 2025-05-144:411 reply

        For the same price, airbnb usually provides more than hotels (but with higher variation in quality).

        Hotels tend to be pretty consistently good when it is over a certain price point, and at any higher price point, all you get is better views/location (and may be some amenities such as gym or pool) - aka, quality caps out and just becomes expensive.

        Airbnb prices are quite correlated to quality. High priced airbnb (for example, a holiday lodge) can be _very_ good for the price. But airbnb is a sort of buyers beware type deal.

        • By freddie_mercury 2025-05-146:181 reply

          Hotels also provide tons of variation in quality. Just look up hotels in, say, Bangkok or Ho Chi Minh City where the options are much more than just the typical Western chains. Or compare the many non-chain "motels" in North America.

          I think what you mean is "chains" tend to be pretty consistent. Which, yeah, that's always been the main value prop of a chain. You go to McDonald's in Tunisia and you have a pretty good idea what you're going to get.

          • By darkwater 2025-05-146:423 reply

            Chains consistency kills half the fun of travelling the world.

            • By n4r9 2025-05-149:452 reply

              Kids enforce a filter on what sort of fun you look for. Without kids, the bottom tenth percentile hotel experiences is often a few hours of bad sleep before escaping in the morning. With them, it's hours of tantrums, desperate searches for acceptable food or sleeping arrangements, and worrying for days afterwards about the effects of smoke, mold, dust etc on their health.

              • By darkwater 2025-05-1419:481 reply

                Going to a local place doesn't necessarily mean going in shitty places, even with family. I traveled in many countries, especially Europe and Asia, with my 2 daughters and while they do throw the usual tantrum for their ages, we always find something local they like to eat, and they don't really mind one room or another to sleep, as long as they are in the same room with at least one of us.

                • By n4r9 2025-05-1512:441 reply

                  Yeah for sure, normally it's fine and more fun. But the potential 10th-percentile scenario can be much worse. I don't for a second judge parents that decide based on that.

                  • By darkwater 2025-05-1610:02

                    I don't judge parents either, my initial comment was more global, plenty of tourists with no kids in international fast-food chains for example. For hotels also the "chains sample" is usually skewed. There are basically no low/mid-range chains outside their core country or region. You just find high-end hotels (Hilton, Radisson, Sheraton, Four Seasons etc) all over the world.

              • By watwut 2025-05-1410:072 reply

                >and worrying for days afterwards about the effects of smoke, mold, dust etc on their health.

                I mean, that one is on you. It is possible to go on vacation even camping with kids without having anxiety attack over everything.

                Also, while some kids are difficult and kids are slow and certainly limit you, hours of tantrumps every holiday and impossibility to eat are not normal.

                • By n4r9 2025-05-1414:19

                  Sure. I've camped at a festival with a 1 yr old. Even stayed in a campervan at a festival when they were 6 weeks old. I'm just explaining why parents might prefer the safety of well-known chain hotels vs whatever "fun" darkwater was referring to.

                • By bee_rider 2025-05-1413:042 reply

                  The air usually seems pretty fresh and healthy when camping.

                  • By watwut 2025-05-1418:47

                    There tend to be a lot of dust. Less hygiene then in hotel.

                  • By MyPasswordSucks 2025-05-1417:291 reply

                    What about the carpets?

                    • By bee_rider 2025-05-1418:441 reply

                      I’m not sure I follow the implication here, but: my point was that “camping” is generated seen as a fairly healthy vacationing option, so it seems weird to use it as the lower-bound on a spectrum that contains moldy Airbnbs and hotels.

                      • By MyPasswordSucks 2025-05-1419:251 reply

                        Well, there's a reason people build homes and apartments to live in, and a reason that societies with homes and apartments are healthier than societies that sleep in tents and shacks. Dirt is... dirty.

                        And yes, the point being advanced in the thread is that compared to camping - which is generally healthy and not something to freak out about! - homes are going to be cleaner, occasional mold issues aside. So it's silly to freak out over the infinitesimally-slight chances of little Timmy and Sally getting dust-mold-smoke cancer-AIDS from a less-than-perfectly-sterile room.

                        • By bee_rider 2025-05-150:32

                          People build houses to protect ourselves and our stuff from the elements (and other climate control reasons), for privacy, for security, that sort of stuff. They are necessary for high-density living (plumbing helps to keep poop away).

                          Generally though, I would expect camping to be healthier than a hotel room. Hotel rooms and airbnbs are places that many humans go through, and humans are generally the main carriers of human pathogens. The only germs on your camping gear are your own ones.

            • By sgarland 2025-05-1411:44

              For food and drinks, I agree, but when I’m ready to go to bed, I don’t want an adventure, I want a comfortable and quiet room that I’m already accustomed to.

            • By jq-r 2025-05-1410:55

              And the other half being a disappointment?;)

      • By gwbas1c 2025-05-1412:412 reply

        I have three kids. We prefer to stay in hotels with suites where the kids can sleep in a separate room. I prefer the fact that they have on-site staff. All hotels that we've stayed in for the past few years include a breakfast buffet.

        The kids generally prefer hotels because they have pools.

        We've found plenty of professionally run "resorts" where the space is like a small apartment, with a full kitchen and multiple bedrooms. These tend to be right in ski areas where we could walk to the lift if we were staying during the ski season. We did stay in one that was AirBNB-like because it was privately owned but the ski area handled the reservation and any issues that came up while we were there.

        • By HDThoreaun 2025-05-1414:52

          As I pretty avid skier its my experience that at most ski towns airbnbs cost about 50% more than hotels but have about 3x the square ft for the cost. Yea I can pay 4 grand a night for 4 hotel rooms or whatever setup youve got, or I could pay a half of that for a 3 bedroom airbnb with an outdoor hot tub. Easy decision for me

        • By lurkylurk 2025-05-1413:22

          [flagged]

      • By hans0l074 2025-05-148:251 reply

        I can't put a finger on it, but I have never used AirBnB, so I probably do not know what I am missing. I have kids now, and when we move around within the EU, I have always found the hotel experience predictable and reliable (and like many say here, perhaps more expensive, though I don't know by how much). Our daily life at home/base camp is filled with chores - laundry, cooking, cleaning etc. So going and staying at a hotel with good amenities and services is a welcome change. Nice breakfast every day, in-room service, laundry on-demand etc. Of course there is a price tag, though our family has found it quite affordable with a regular EU software paycheck. Also, my experience does not extend for stays beyond a week. Anything longer would demand an apartment, for sure.

        • By dijit 2025-05-148:491 reply

          I'm very mixed on the subject.

          I, like you, prefer the hotel offering. Messing around with hosts and their rules is not on my list of things I want to care about, the fact that there are hidden fees and stuff leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

          Hotels, I know the rules. Don't destroy or steal, make life easier for the maid: done.

          With AirBNB, there's the cleaning fee, there's the self-replacement of items situation, there's the unknown state going in; and there's some faff about checking in.

          However, the laundry fee's are definitely killer in hotels. I prefer to travel light and paying €8 for a pair of socks (or.. depending on the hotel manager PER SOCK) to get them washed is just painful. It's not just a high price tag at that point, it's borderline criminal markup.

          I have also noticed that amenities such as Irons are less common in hotel rooms these days, which is annoying as I've started wearing shirts in my old age- worse still is the toilet situation. Modern hotels must think we're all voyeurs or something. The majority of hotels I've stayed at in the last 3 years I would not want to be with a child, frosted glass bathrooms, rarely a lock, sometimes it's just slatted wooden cabinet doors... idk, something wild is going on with hotel bathrooms man.

      • By bgarbiak 2025-05-1415:20

        Strange. As a father of two I prefer hotels over AirBnB. Laundry could be an issue, yes, but not having a kitchen is actually a feature for me. Someone else taking care of feeding the little ones is exactly what hotels are for

      • By wdb 2025-05-1413:33

        Sounds like you are looking for the hotel apartments. I stayed in plenty of those and they are good deal, you get kitchen, plenty of space. Think it was 100GBP/night and with the company discount it went down to 75GBP/month

      • By MrSkelter 2025-05-1910:58

        Hotel suites offer everything you mention.

        At hotels you also don’t have to worry about spy cameras, upset neighbors and questionable legality.

        I did use AirBnB years ago with my family and it was great. However the quality tends to reflect the country. I have had wonderful experiences in Northern Europe and the worst in San Francisco.

      • By ghaff 2025-05-1412:28

        There's a lot of truth in that.

        Normally, I never use a kitchen when traveling. When with GF, she does often like eggs in the morning though. So if there isn't a hotel/inn breaffast that can sometimes be useful.

        I agree with respect to circumstances where you want houses or at least multi-room apartments though. Hotels aren't mostly a good fit for that although suite hotels sometimes have a couple of bedrooms.

      • By HelloMcFly 2025-05-1412:56

        My decision tree is simple:

        - If I need a kitchen? AirBnB

        - Am I staying somewhere with low population density for more than a couple of nights? AirBnb

        - Am I staying somewhere with low population density for a couple of nights or less? Motel or camping

        - Everywhere else: Hotel

      • By analog31 2025-05-144:401 reply

        Indeed, hell is being cooped up in a hotel with kids -- for the kids, the parents, the rest of the occupants, and the staff.

        I think this is a huge factor in why my family always camped when I was a kid.

        And to be frank, I don't like being cooped up in a hotel either.

        • By black3r 2025-05-147:03

          Hotels aren't designed to be cooped up in. Hotels are designed for 2 things: Housing many people at the same place, and giving you a comfortable place to sleep, shower and have a breakfast in. And they're great at those.

      • By no-cigar 2025-05-1421:53

        I have 2 kids and I kinda agree but I now stay with hotels with kitchens. I have not stayed at Airbnb since they ruined me and my family’s stay during my wedding. The flat we had didn’t have a working toilet and they refused to find us a new place. They just offered a refund (only if the host confirmed toilet can’t be fixed)

        And this is after I explained it’s my wedding!!

        Never again.

      • By taneliv 2025-05-147:191 reply

        Yes, yes, yes, and yes. If the kids are not toddlers any more, booking a place where you share the apartment/house with the host (or maybe other travelers) can also be a great experience.

        I mean, it's an adventure, and those can also go poorly, but our experiences have been just excellent. And at those bottom-of-the-barrel prices mentioned earlier.

        Definitely not something that hotels offer.

        • By paradox242 2025-05-1411:57

          That sounds like a living hell to me.

      • By dspillett 2025-05-1410:031 reply

        > aren't traveling with kids

        Just as much as many parents think having had kids is one of the proudest decisions (or happiest accidents) they have made, I think not having them is one of my best decisions, travelling is one of my many reasons for that, and I find the assumption from some parents that we should bend around their choice is a little presumptuous.

        Furthermore, ignoring various other definitions of better, hotels are sometimes better value (or, at least, just less expensive) then AirBnBs these days, unless you are lucky, and inexpensive/value-for-money seems to be a very important factor for parents that I know.

        Having said that I still use AirBnB sometimes, it just certainly isn't my only/preferred option as it was for a time.

        • By calsy 2025-05-1411:312 reply

          People had to tolerate your existence when your parents decided to bring you into this world. Why not show the same courtesy?

          • By dspillett 2025-05-1414:001 reply

            It isn't about tolerance for the kids. I have no objection to them being around¹, I don't begrudge my taxes going into education and relevant parts of the NHS for them.

            My issue is the assumption, amongst many of those with kids, that everything should be optimised for people with kids, and anything that isn't is wrong. Because why would you want to optimise anything for other conditions in some cases?

            >Why not show the same courtesy?

            There is courtesy, and there is being expected to accept suboptimal things for myself so that everything can be optimal for other peoples' choices.

            --------

            [1] except perhaps the particularly uncontrolled ones, and I acknowledge that is sometimes unavoidable

            • By calsy 2025-05-1422:131 reply

              So many weird assumptions here.

              How exactly is everything optimised with families in mind? Ask any parent and I'm sure they will tell you how unoptimised their life is.

              Why does a single person with their own expendable income worry so much about being catered for specifically? Your only responsibility is to yourself. Do you look around and bemoan family specific services? It's such an odd thing to care about unless you had a grudge.

              Kids aren't a 'lifestyle choice' like deciding to travel. Do I need to go into the reasons why kids are important or who will be paying to keep you alive when your older?

              • By dspillett 2025-05-159:541 reply

                > So many weird assumptions here.

                In your response, yes. Either that or you are significantly misreading my posts.

                > How exactly is everything optimised with families in mind?

                It isn't. I didn't say that at all. Some things are, possibly not enough, but many parents think everything should be and everything that isn't implies some deliberate slight.

                > Ask any parent and I'm sure they will tell you how unoptimised their life is.

                Ah, the old “you are not a parent, you don't know how hard it is”. I know many parents, and even without that personal context the issues with parenthood are well documented throughout our culture. If anyone is ignorant of reality here it is parents who are surprised to find it isn't easy…¹

                > Why does a single person with their own expendable income worry so much about being catered for specifically?

                I don't, and that isn't what I said.

                > Your only responsibility is to yourself.

                Incorrect. I have parents, other family, friends, pets, my work (though that could be filed under responsibility to myself I suppose - I'm not a public servant by any description), other organisations (both commercial and charitable) that I interact with, certain responsibilities we all have to society in general, etc.

                > Do you look around and bemoan family specific services?

                I very much do not, I don't even bemoan funding them, and I explicitly said as much (to quote: “I don't begrudge my taxes going into education and relevant parts of the NHS…”). Try reading what you reply to before replying to it!

                > It's such an odd thing to care about unless you had a grudge.

                Not a grudge as such. Just an irritation that if I'm sometimes seen as selfish if I appreciate something that is optimised for my lifestyle. I've been called selfish for just not wanting to have kids.

                > Kids aren't a 'lifestyle choice'

                They very much are. It is a choice that affects your lifestyle in a great many ways whichever side you choose (or, in some cases, have chosen for you).

                > Do I need to go into the reasons why kids are important

                No need, I've been told these things, despite already knowing them, many many many times already!

                > who will be paying to keep you alive when your older?

                That is a complicated discussion that I really don't have time for ATM, but further to “why kids are important” I am well aware of the problems an average ageing population can cause.

                --------

                [1] Obviously excluding those whose kids have specific issues, be they physical, mental, or both. Those matters are not predictable unlike the general challenges almost all parents face.

                • By calsy 2025-05-161:351 reply

                  Most parents want everything to cater to their family... you say. This irritates you.

                  However, you find it irritating when people call you selfish when things are catered for you.

                  Who are these people calling you selfish by the way? Who has said your selfish for not having kids for example.

                  This frustration with parents seem to come from a sense of guilt? Not that I agree you should feel that way. But all this talk of feeling selfish and being called selfish. I have never felt that way about any friends or family I know without kids. Never even crossed my mind.

                  If you're truly happy with your lifestyle choice, these things shouldn't bother you at all.

                  • By dspillett 2025-05-1610:281 reply

                    > Most parents want everything to cater to their family... you say.

                    You are twisting my words again. I'm strongly suspecting this is deliberate, to make my position sound more hard-line, rather than a misunderstanding on your part. I said many, which is far from most, and to those with kids not to their specific family¹.

                    > This irritates you.

                    Not directly. If you pay attention to the start of this thread² you'll see that the source of irritation was the implied “you aren't a parent so you don't understand”. Here it was said lightly, but often there is more than a hint of suggesting that those without kids, particularly those who very much don't want them, are somehow both inferior in terms of knowledge, intellect, morality, or some mix of the three.

                    > Who are these people calling you selfish by the way?

                    Currently, directly to me? No one. I've successfully convinced the world around me that my line ending here is not a bad thing!

                    Though it was explicitly stated in my direction in my younger years when talking about future life plans. Who was saying it? Quite a mix of people, though there was certainly a bias towards those to whom religion was an important part of how they gauge the actions/intent of others. In some cases I think people take my explicitly not wanting that way of life is me saying that the other choice is generally wrong and that they, by inference, are wrong³, which is not the case. My original home town has a prevalence of certain opinions about the world, and there was from some people a suggestion that other cultures having more children than was a concern so breeding is some sort of duty, but that is part of a different kettle of mouldy fish.

                    As an example more outside of myself: I have a couple of friends who would like to have themselves rendered incapable without the hassle of pills and other treatments which, for them and quite a few others, can have significant side effects, but that isn't something they are allowed to choose in this country even at their own expense. The word selfish has definitely been levelled at them (also “misguided” and similar, along with “you'll change your mind and regret it” as if they are a 14-year-old wanting a face tattoo not a 30-something trying to make their life less problemful for a week each month).

                    > This frustration with parents…

                    Again, your wording seems to be trying to frame me as saying things that I am not, here that all parents have unreasonable expectations. That is rather disingenuous of you.

                    > seem to come from a sense of guilt?

                    Nope. I don't see what I would feel guilty about here.

                    > If you're truly happy with your lifestyle choice, these things shouldn't bother you at all.

                    I am, but I have to admit to not being high-minded enough not to be bothered by the implied inferiority (“you aren't a parent, you wouldn't understand”, etc.) or that everything should cater for the other choice.

                    Also, I am not the only one who matters here. That the pressure to conform to traditional family models exists, means that some end up in a place that they really wouldn't have chosen for themselves and that they are not happy about.

                    ----

                    [1] The latter would imply I think that their view point is from an entirely self-centred perspective

                    [2] Assuming you are not an LLM with a limited context window so don't have access to that!

                    [3] This certainly applies to a couple of people who have since popped out enough, or been the cause of others having them, to make up for my lack of desire to have any. How much it applies more generally is less provable.

          • By kidsfingsuck 2025-05-1413:43

            [flagged]

    • By csomar 2025-05-145:04

      It is really location specific. For some locations, the hotel experience is better/cheaper and hotels (serviced apartments) can have kitchens/privacy.

      The problem is not much of the hotel/apartment but rather the platform. AirBnb manipulates search results, prices and UX to squeeze harder. It now wants to up sell "experiences" that it puts in your face every-time you open the app. It is just exhausting as the rest of everything on the internet that is taking the same path.

    • By plorkyeran 2025-05-144:333 reply

      I don't even really understand the concept of comparing AirBnB prices to hotel prices? Unless you're literally just looking for the cheapest place to safely spend the night with zero considerations beyond that they just aren't the same product. Staying in an apartment or house and staying in a hotel are vastly different experiences.

      • By jterrys 2025-05-145:002 reply

        There's also...apartment hotels!

        Want hotel quality and safety with apartment perks? Just go to an apartment hotel! It costs more than a hotel/AirBnB but you're also not at the whims of random hit-or-miss listings and shady shit. And they clean your room if you want them to!

        • By jksflkjl3jk3 2025-05-145:201 reply

          > There's also...apartment hotels!

          They're not nearly as common as Airbnb apartments in most countries. I also trust Airbnb listings and reviews more than what I find on most booking sites.

          • By distances 2025-05-146:092 reply

            I don't trust AirBnb reviews much at all. When I've found the same place on AirBnb and Booking, the difference was always clear: AirBnb has only glowing reviews with nothing wrong at all, while Booking reviews were much more realistic with also some critical but fair observations included.

            • By robocat 2025-05-149:38

              The AirBnB review system feels fairly useless. I've had some pretty poor experiences with AirBnB, but I am loath to give severe ratings or write anything too awful. I would like to give fair warnings to subsequent guests but it never feels like it would help. Instead I do try to give direct feedback to hosts if they are available.

              Maybe some way to secretly write problems, and get next guests to agree/disagree with each concern?

              Repeatable patterns of problems (rather than one-off bad luck) are what I'm most interested in avoiding.

              I find booking.com has been more reliable, and less risks of unexpected costs. AirBnB is usually way less professional.

            • By MyPasswordSucks 2025-05-1417:44

              When writing reviews in-app, there's a certain pressure to not fuck someone over.

              For instance, hypothetically, there might be a listing that mentions plenty of clean towels, a swimming pool, and a walk to a convenience store. I get there and there were two towels, the swimming pool was one of those above-ground models, and the convenience store was a 20 minute walk.

              Leaving a negative review on AirBnB might fuck the guy over in search results or certain incentives, so I wouldn't really delve into the definition of "plenty" and how a "swimming pool" should mean "a pool that's large enough to swim in" and not "a big puddle that's perfectly suited for splashing around in, but less so for actual swimming". I might mention them in a private note to the renter or something, but it's not egregious enough to sabotage the otherwise-perfectly-fine service I was provided.

              There's no such direct gamification with a third-party review site, so I might bring these things up there.

              It's similar to leaving a thumbs up for an Amazon driver who walks on the lawn because he didn't notice the paved walkway. Was it "perfect delivery"? No. But is it something I'd want the guy to have negative employment ramifications over? Also no.

        • By zo1 2025-05-145:10

          The problem I've seen with those is that all those places have turned to using Airbnb to manage guests and bookings. The whole little industry that spawned is beyond bizarre to me. Like everyone wanting to hyper optimize and the uniqueness disappeared.

      • By xivzgrev 2025-05-146:15

        From a utility perspective not really. You need a safe comfortable place to sleep, a clean bathroom, maybe a TV, some space for your stuff and that’s basically it.

        The experience is OUT THERE, not where you are staying.

        So yea I’m looking for the cheapest place that meets the bar. Sometimes it’s Airbnb but usually it’s a hotel.

      • By megablast 2025-05-145:16

        What a ridiculous comment. Along the lines of you can't compare iphone and android phones.

        Most people just want somewhere to stay while they visit a city or relatives or an event.

        Even if you want a kitchen many hotels offer some basic facilities.

        In this way they are perfectly comparable.

    • By bambax 2025-05-146:328 reply

      I used to like Airbnb. It's not better or cheaper than hotels, but when travelling with kids it makes a big difference.

      Until I had a bad experience, that turned horrible. I saw a side of the company that made me think "never again".

      I rented a place from a "superhost" that looked very nice on paper. It was in fact very bad. Everything in the description was misleading, photos were doctored to look nice, "windows" opened to a wall on the next building two feet away, there was mold everywhere, the shower flowed into the bedroom, etc.

      At this point it wasn't the end of the world; I stayed two nights and went home. Then I wrote a bad review. It was simply descriptive and contained no harsh language of any kind.

      The review was immediately taken down; I asked why, and received a barrage of emails from Airbnb (some automated, some maybe not) saying that they were very sorry, they understood this wasn't the outcome I expected, but they couldn't publish it.

      Turns out, Airbnb will go to extreme lengths to protect their hosts, because they are much more valuable to the company than one random customer.

      But if the reviews are fake or filtered, then I can't trust the platform.

      I went back to booking.com; they now have properties in addition to hotels, and are much more professional.

      • By torstenv 2025-05-1415:56

        I don't agree that Booking.com handles customer complaints better than Airbnb. I had booked a flat through Booking.com. The host wanted a deposit of my credit card information via an untrustworthy customised Italian website for a deposit before handing over the pin to collect the key. I do not speak Italian. Giving my credit card information to a strange website whose language I don't speak was not part of the agreement. The host then refused to give me access to the flat. My complaint to Booking.com was answered with standard texts pointing out that the deposit was obligatory in the small print and therefore part of the contract. However, the small print, which I admittedly had not read before booking, stated that the deposit was to be paid in cash. It didn't say anything about credit cards. I tried over five rounds of back and forth to get a complaint and a refund via Booking, as I didn't actually receive the flat and therefore didn't get any service. Booking then simply stopped replying. When I then wanted to take legal action and claim the amount, it turned out that I would have had to sue somewhere in Holland. So all the money was gone and I had double the cost for that night because I had to book a room elsewhere. So I've had the worst experience with booking.com customer support.

      • By cryptonym 2025-05-1413:53

        I booked one with swimming pool, advertising enough room for 6 person.

        View was amazing, as advertised. The bed in the living room was inflatable and deflated over night. Only three forks in kitchen drawer. Convoluted scheme to enter the building and room cause they want to hide the fact it's an Airbnb as it's not really allowed in that building. Swimming pool was on maintenance since 2 months.

        Airbnb couldn't care less, basically I was being annoying to them. They didn't publish my honest review.

        Sure having a kitchen and a comfy place to rest is nice, since that experience I'm very reluctant to take again that risk, especially with kids.

      • By graemep 2025-05-147:57

        Not as bad as my worst airBNB experience.

        Everything from rats to exposed wiring next to a shower!

        Review got removed. Full story here: https://pietersz.co.uk/2017/02/airbnb-block-bad-reviews

      • By crab_galaxy 2025-05-1411:50

        Same experience here. It was shocking how bad Airbnb’s customer service was. When 95% of the stays are good it doesn’t matter but that one bad stay soured me on the company entirely

      • By sam-cop-vimes 2025-05-149:341 reply

        Almost every Airbnb I've stayed over the past few years has been subpar compared to how it is advertised. The most recent one in Malaysia had cockroaches in the kitchen. Airbnb is now the last resort after I've exhausted staying in hotels.

        At this point, I stay away from serviced apartments altogether. At least with a hotel you can go to reception and demand they fix your issue.

        • By SkyPuncher 2025-05-1412:40

          This has been my experience, as well.

          The only exception is actual vacation homes that people rent out when they're not there. If it's not clearly a vacation home, I know that it's going to suck in at least one way.

      • By earnestinger 2025-05-147:001 reply

        Booking also gives you the final price in search results.

      • By bwfan123 2025-05-1414:54

        This is the same asymmetry why I wont buy a tesla until tesla allows any mechanic to fix problems with it. ie, you are beholden to the manufacturer or seller, and are at their mercy. This becomes more important as the car ages.

        In this case also, it appears that the customer has no recourse (bad reviews are taken down.)

      • By immibis 2025-05-1415:321 reply

        In Germany it's apparently illegal to leave a bad review of a business. Even if their experience was bad. Even if you can prove in a court of law that they lied on their listing.

        • By CountGeek 2025-05-154:36

          Leaving a negative review is not outright illegal, but it can lead to legal consequences if deemed defamatory or false. If a review contains unsubstantiated claims or personal attacks, the business can pursue legal action for defamation.

          The nuances of these laws can vary, so context matters significantly in legal interpretations.

    • By jksflkjl3jk3 2025-05-145:161 reply

      I think we're just the silent majority.

      I've been a digital nomad for the last 9 years. Airbnb is a huge reason why my experience has been so great. How else can I show up in a city in a new country , spend 5 minutes the day before I arrive, and end up with a nice furnished apartment in a great location for a week's stay?

      • By hansmayer 2025-05-147:433 reply

        Oh, how lovely it is so convenient for you, e.g. the "silent majority" while the residents of those cities foot the direct and indirect bill from reduced availability of the real-estate and the ever-increasing costs.

        • By janosett 2025-05-148:064 reply

          Anywhere you could build a hotel you could also build more housing, so they pose the same issue. There is necessarily some tension between using space for permanent housing and using it for tourism / short term stays. Tourism often keeps a city's economy healthy, and having short term stays is important for those visiting even for non-tourism reasons (e.g. in town to visit family, for work, etc).

          The housing issue is more complex than just Airbnb / short-term housing as well: is there enough housing investment? what is the effect of international or corporate investment? are local regulations supporting or sabotaging the effort to build more housing? is there a large speculation market?

          • By wnc3141 2025-05-156:321 reply

            Ignoring some nuances, I see what you're saying-- At least in the long run.

            The issue is however in the short run, air BNB encourages taking existing rentals out of the market to turn into short term rentals. The effect is driving long term rental prices toward the short term price level supported by income level of the visitors. (untenable for most residents).

            The conversation of new units refers to a decades long process dependent on credit cycles and investment interest.

            • By xrhobo 2025-05-1511:24

              It is like arguing that the exodus from the rust belt in the late 80s and 90s was good for the cities because it made the cost of housing go down.

              This is true if we focus entirely on housing cost and basically ignore all the down sides. Of course, ignoring the perspective of those who owned real estate too at that time.

              Real estate always has quite a bit of preference falsification associated with it too. Everyone is always publicly outraged at the cost increase of real estate while those who own the increasing real estate are internally quite happy with the situation. I suspect that is the main variable why we can never solve this problem.

          • By hansmayer 2025-05-148:342 reply

            But...why should some direct investment towards "housing" if they can direct them towards the day-rentals ? Its definitely in their economical self-interest. So as long as we allow these platforms (be it AirBnB, Amazon or FB) to amplify a single parameter at the detriment of everything else in the society as a whole, I am afraid all the philosophical discussions about "complex" aspects will not help.

            • By wallst07 2025-05-1411:082 reply

              This is a supply/demand problem. Your solution is to restrict the supply of short term rentals. Restrictions rarely work, the hypothetical situation you mention would benefit from allowing more building of long term rentals.

              • By hansmayer 2025-05-164:40

                No, I did not suggest the solution you are implying my comment meant. What I am saying is that these PLATFORMS are not the right way to handle the supply of short-term rentals, as they incentivise the home-owners to take them off the market for long-term rentals. I would be perfectly fine with short-term rentals which were not the converted living units. We have to think differently here. But if the push comes to shove, actually restrictions would work here in favour of the long-term rentals, because being, as you said yourself, a supply-demand problem, it would raise the supply of long-term rentals and reduce the prices. Just as it was happening before AirBnB. Its just that we have to be moral enough to recognise that the basic human right of a local in a tourist location to live affordably is set higher than the luxury problem of the so-called digital natives, namely, booking a short-term rental in a city center (so they can produce yet another piece of "content"). Not to mention that a platform which does not generate profit should not even be allowed to exist.

              • By nithril 2025-05-1411:54

                Most of the case it is because more building is simply not possible.

                And anyway as long as there is no restrictions on the day-rental, investor will choose the option in their economical self-interest. Restriction must apply to force long term rentals.

            • By immibis 2025-05-1415:33

              That's the problem, isn't it? Capitalism sucks. City governments could set rules like: you must build 3 residential units for every hotel room.

          • By nithril 2025-05-1411:561 reply

            > Tourism often keeps a city's economy healthy

            I would not say "healthy", there is many situation where it is wealthy but not really healthy

            • By wnc3141 2025-05-156:27

              I think what's at play here is the unusually palpable crowding out effects of tourism compared to any other industry. That is, when local stores get replaced by tourism shops, Landmarks etc. become more important than everyday amenities and the town becomes a sort of museum of itself.

              Of course tourism can pipe in money and help a place invest in high quality services and amentaties compared to catering to industry.

              However tourism often has a tremendous income distribution problem (see Hawaii or Colorado living conditions of service workers). This remains a fundamentally political problem to guarantee income distribution through living wage guarantees etc.

          • By camgunz 2025-05-1412:341 reply

            > Anywhere you could build a hotel you could also build more housing

            Not really in practice. Ex: there's lots of hotels around airports and highways. Would anyone want to buy a house there? Definitely not. The markets and thus economics are totally different.

            > having short term stays is important for those visiting even for non-tourism reasons (e.g. in town to visit family, for work, etc)

            I don't know about "important", but "useful" yeah. The thing is like, how ubiquitous is this? I'd naively guess for every 1 person who finds this useful, 1000s more are negatively impacted by Airbnb.

            • By whamlastxmas 2025-05-1414:011 reply

              There is endless housing immediately by airports and highways. Like literally any major American airport or highway has tons of housing right next to it. Even in more rural areas people deliberately building a house right by the airport to make routine traveling easier

              • By camgunz 2025-05-159:06

                "Endless"? The proportion of housing near to not near airports and highways is infinitesimal.

        • By Jcampuzano2 2025-05-1413:38

          You're blaming the wrong people for the issue. Obviously there is demand for tourism in a way that hotels do not fulfill and the people who bought and rent out/host these residences are the ones enabling it by adding supply.

          As someone who spends time being digital nomad myself, it isn't my fault when I stay in an AirBNB that is available somewhere since I'm just consuming the available supply that is permitted by the local government and I'm all for residents having priority. Often time its a local resident who owns and rents out the place in the first place, blame them for not renting to locals if you want. Its the local regulations and governments responsibility to regulate this.

        • By HDThoreaun 2025-05-1414:57

          real estate supply is not fixed. It is the cities fault for refusing to expand supply in the face of rising demand.

    • By benjaminwootton 2025-05-146:32

      I started out loving AirBNB. Then I had quite a few bad experiences and flipped back to hotels as the price equalised. In the last year or two I’ve gone back to AirBNB as the hosts seem to have professionalised and hotel prices have headed north.

      Hotels.com also cancelled a brilliant loyalty programme of buy 9 nights get the 10th free which was another motivation to look elsewhere.

    • By dizhn 2025-05-147:171 reply

      I am currently on vacation in the Mediterranean and find a hybrid model to be the best of both worlds. We strictly use booking.com (we need to find a hotel at 6pm and check in at 7. Same thing the next day.Airbnb would never work.) Booking.com lists apartments too. I would imagine there's a huge overlap with airbnb properties. This way you're using the better company (they helped me out a bunch of times. And the listers are more inclined to behave on booking.com.) but staying in the same apartments with all the positives you listed. It's all self check in now too. I have yet to see any owner or manager.

      • By neves 2025-05-1411:561 reply

        Booking costumer service is a lot better. In it you find a great ally in negotiating with the property. But Airbnb...

        • By dizhn 2025-05-168:29

          This has always been my experience as well. And like I mentioned above, the people listing places on booking.com are much more likely to try to deal with you properly. I think on AirBNB the renters can even look at your prior reviews to judge how likely you are to give a positive review before they accept the reservation. And they can cancel at any time even after you've paid.

    • By jrowen 2025-05-144:142 reply

      I think the core value prop of Airbnb is (or should be) to provide a different experience than a hotel. It may have been "cheaper than a hotel" at one point and idk what the numbers are on how people are using it but in my experience it excels for larger groups or for people just looking for a more house-like experience than a hotel. Being able to stay in a nice house with a bunch of friends in any city is an amazing thing they made a lot more accessible.

      Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me to just shop on price and then compare the experience to booking a hotel room, it's totally different.

      • By zacharycohn 2025-05-152:47

        I think it gets complicated when there's a long, long list of chores you have to do when you leave.

        At the you're paying more than a hotel and you have to spend 2 hours deep cleaning the place... That's when you start to really reconsider.

      • By ghaff 2025-05-1413:571 reply

        Which has been VRBO to a large degree. Not sure how common that is for Airbnb as a use case. A lot of what I see is looking for a cheaper room.

        • By jrowen 2025-05-1414:411 reply

          Anecdotally I've never heard anyone say "VRBO." Maybe they are using it but just saying "yeah we stayed in an Airbnb" kind of like if you use Lyft but call it Uber cause that's the more common noun.

          So I feel like they did successfully establish themselves as the noun for that kind of thing, which to me speaks to the power of the idea and the marketplace they created because the name doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

          But overall I think the hotel room market is just much larger than the "boutique group stay" market so they have to maintain position as a direct hotel competitor (but I think it is an issue vis-a-vis people complaining here about things like having to coordinate with an individual even though they willingly chose that route).

          • By ghaff 2025-05-1415:15

            I agree with all that. One or two people mostly looking for a decent place to stay in the right location without hassle probably describes most travelers under most circumstances. I know it does me and I've travelled over 100 days a year at times. And that's probably not atypical of a lot of business travelers.

            Even these days I'm not mostly looking to deeply research my overnight stays much of the time and often default to my hotel chain of choice or a hotel/Aparthotel that I have previous experience with.

    • By sheepscreek 2025-05-144:311 reply

      Chesky is having a Jobs moment, when Apple went from making Computers to smartphones and much much more. It didn’t happen in a day though. More importantly, by that time, Jobs had already built Next from the ground up, and supported and funded the growth of Pixar into an animation powerhouse. He had all the additional experience shaping his perception on what people want and how people will react to something.

      I think Airbnb will have a branding issue. By transitioning from rentals to offering a wide range of services, they might dilute their brand before people have the chance to fully embrace and experience the new offerings.

      Perhaps they should reinvent themselves as a platform that manages travel and stays, emphasizing that their “airbnb certified experience” includes access to specific facilities and guarantees. This way, users can choose from other service providers in their marketplace with their own standards. That way, expanding to more services over time would seem like an organic expansion.

      Essentially, Airbnb could transition from managing services to a marketplace model that also hosts managed services and other providers. However, by maintaining a focus on “stays” or “travels” and slowly adding more ancillary services would prevent dilution before their metamorphosis is complete.

      • By dmurray 2025-05-147:12

        There will be a rebranding in the next ten years. Airbnb will get a slightly more blocky or rounded version of the same logo and ads everywhere announcing how "Airbnb is now Air".

        I can't tell who owns air.com, but the website it hosts is a tiny landing page from someone who would obviously sell.

        The rebranding will be met by a slew of astonished articles asking "they spent how much?" and almost as many apparently-thoughtful midwit counterpoints saying no, it looks obvious in hindsight, but it took real marketing genius to conceive of this in advance.

    • By eadmund 2025-05-1410:291 reply

      My issue with Airbnb stays is privacy. I don’t trust that the vendors (they’re really not ‘hosts’ nowadays) have not placed cameras and microphones throughout the rooms. I do trust that most (not all!) hotel owners don’t.

      • By shlant 2025-05-1410:412 reply

        is this even a widespread problem? kind of reminds me of the tiktoks of "hotel safety tips"[1]. Makes me think these levels of paranoia are unique to the US

        [1] https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/hotel-safety-hacks-t...

        • By throwaway2037 2025-05-1411:262 reply

          Agree. OP is weird. Google tells me:

              > Airbnb prohibits indoor security cameras and recording devices, including audio, in most listings globally.
          
          It should not be difficult to find a security camera. (Microphone is a different matter.) If you find one, you can report to AirBnB, and I am sure the renter will be immediately delisted. And, it is probably just plan illegal in many jurisdictions.

          • By abxyz 2025-05-1412:051 reply

            Security cameras (like Google Nest) are not the concern people have: hidden cameras are. It is possible to rig an entire property without any chance of guests finding the cameras. The scale at which it happens is a question (and varies based on country) but the illegality isn't the issue. The dissemination of videos and photos secretly recorded of guests and their children is the issue. There are people in prison for doing this but the damage is done, videos and photos of their guests are online forever.

            • By shlant 2025-05-152:47

              > The scale at which it happens is a question

              and my point is that there is no reason to think this is enough of a problem that any well-adjusted person should factor it into the "should I use Airbnb?" calculation. If someone thinks that is an issue then I would assume they never use public bathrooms.

          • By theshackleford 2025-05-1412:181 reply

            > And, it is probably just plan illegal in many jurisdictions.

            Yes because of course nobody would ever do anything illegal.

            • By throwaway2037 2025-05-1416:511 reply

              This is not a useful response. The intent of my comment was to say: If you are renting an AirBnB and you find "hidden" cameras, then you can first complain to AirBnB. If the local jurisdiction prohits cameras, then you can call the police to report it.

              • By theshackleford 2025-05-1420:04

                Neither is this.

                If I’ve already been recorded and say, the footage distributed no amount of complaining nor dealing with the police is going to reverse it.

        • By Loughla 2025-05-1412:05

          That's not real. People don't live like that. That's just engagement slop for tiktok.

          Also, I would argue that it may not be common, but it's much more likely with airbnb versus a hotel chain. Two reasons; more access to the space without witnesses, and the owner is more likely to know if their preferred gender is going to occupy that particular space.

          Meaning, hotel staff can be walked in on by other hotel staff, and there is no guarantee that the attractive person you want to see nude is going to get room 203. Whereas you can see who is renting your Airbnb, and you have access to it by yourself all the time.

    • By lacker 2025-05-144:011 reply

      Yeah, I've had pretty great experiences with Airbnbs. I'm usually traveling with kids, hotel rooms are small, it's really nice to have a kitchen with kids, and a lot of airbnbs have amenities that the kids like.

      • By jajko 2025-05-146:28

        Hotels try to milk parents with kids and either force you to take basically another booking, or have few 2-bedroom (or 1 bedroom and living room = parental bedroom) ones, often for almost double the price. Most were designed in another era, and it shows - booked rooms are basically just caves for sleeping.

        We only use such if there are no other options in given area or if we want food prepared (this quickly becomes another chore with small kids).

        I've never seen a well rated airbnb place with many reviews being bad. They may not be stellar in some aspect, ie small maintenance may be lacking but otherwise having a full kitchen with wash machine is pretty amazing for any type of trip, and one has a wide variety of locations and prices. Also it allows you to experience the place a bit more, compared to hyper sterile and uniform hotel experiences.

        Lets not forget airbnbs would never become a thing if they werent cheaper than hotels (or at least provided much better experience at similar price).

    • By ramesh31 2025-05-144:281 reply

      They've gotten much much better in the last 5 years. After all the small time would-be "empire builders" who overcharged for shoddy units and abused residential real estate laws got cleaned out of the system, it seems like what's left is a decent middle ground of professional operators running full time rental units, with a few of the original style unique experiences left here and there. The standards have gone way up, and it's generally better than a hotel at the same price point again, which it was absolutely not for most of 2015-2020ish.

      • By fireflash38 2025-05-147:471 reply

        Depending on the location you get a bunch of people basically who own a vacation home they get priority to use and rent out the rest of the time. Which is honestly rather nice for both the guests and the hosts.

        That was my preferred experience too - well maintained and lived in just enough to make sense. Some places do cheap out on "perks" that seem there only to boost themselves in rankings/filters, but otherwise been a pleasant experience.

        • By genewitch 2025-05-148:541 reply

          We did this in the 80s and 90s so this is not something unique to airbnb, airbnb just did it "on an app". When I say "did this" I mean rented a duplex or house for a couple weeks for a vacation.

          • By snowwrestler 2025-05-1412:121 reply

            VRBO did whole-house vacation rentals in the U.S. well before AirBnB. Still around and works well. I’d say we book about half the time through VRBO and half the time through AirBnB.

            AirBnB’s differentiator on launch was “rent just one room” in an owner-occupied dwelling. Remember when it was “the sharing economy”? There are still listings like that, but I think most of the money is in whole-dwelling rentals now.

            • By thoughtpeddler 2025-05-171:28

              I genuinely love that 'rent just a room' (or even just a bed!) function of Airbnb, and continue to use it till this day. Have met many interesting people (or as I heard another comment on here say "weird in a non-dangerous way" lol), and it's always felt like a safe and quality experience to me (so long as I always do the due diligence and use common sense to stay with hosts that have tons of positive reviews, etc). IIRC Airbnb had a push a few 'releases' ago to revive this core part of their founding purpose, but now it seems they've moved on to 'services'.

    • By socalgal2 2025-05-159:26

      Rented 25 Airbnb’s . half were bad. by bad I mean they were not as advertised. Claimed to have parking for my car. didn’t. claimed to have wifi. didn’t. claimed to be at a particular location on a quiet street, were actually several blocks away on a busy street. been to ones who’s hvac was so loud as to be unusable, etc…

      I stopped using them. will not got back

    • By pixelatedindex 2025-05-1422:03

      The whole cleaning routine for these places is getting pretty ridiculous though. I have to pay a cleaning fee, get the sheets from the bed and put it in the laundry, and whatever arbitrary stuff is in the checkout list. It never felt turnkey as a hotel.

      I think I’m the wrong audience though, as I’m happy as a clam with something like a Best Western or a Motel 6.

    • By WhyNotHugo 2025-05-1412:38

      Prices are pretty close to hotels, but laundry and Kitchen always tilt the scale in favour of AirBnb.

      When travelling for a week, I don't want to each out every day. I appreciate having a couple of things in the fridge for lazy moment, or being able to cook breakfast if I want to stay in late.

      And I can wash a bunch of clothes instead of paying €8 to wash a single shirt.

    • By devoutsalsa 2025-05-1414:331 reply

      I was a digital nomad for 4 years. The ability to do your own laundry is why I prefer an Airbnb over hotel, especially when you’re only living out of carryon luggage with a few days of clothing. Relying on hotel laundry is hard to time and is not cheap.

      • By MyPasswordSucks 2025-05-1418:141 reply

        If you were an analog nomad for 4 days you would have encountered a laundromat.

        • By int_19h 2025-05-1420:131 reply

          How widespread those are depends very much on the country. There are some in which most people haven't seen a laundromat in their life outside of American movies.

          • By mvdtnz 2025-05-1421:501 reply

            Laundromats are commonplace in every country I have visited, none of which are in America.

            • By int_19h 2025-05-151:35

              I didn't say that they are unique to America. And yes, many countries do have them in abundance. Many others do not, or they are rare enough that you might not have one nearby.

              I'm from Russia originally and the first time I have ever seen one outside of a movie was when I moved to Canada. Russia does have them, but, generally speaking, only in large cities.

    • By SwtCyber 2025-05-148:581 reply

      I get the ambition behind the "everything app," but if the core product gets diluted, none of the shiny extras will matter.

      • By wnc3141 2025-05-155:41

        markets are, by and large, too competitive for the "everything" app to ever exist. Air BnB works because they have figured out managing search and and a network of "hotels". This may not translate to other services in a way that other platforms could not do better. 'Why doesn't Uber do hotels?' - type of thing.

    • By golly_ned 2025-05-1418:44

      Yeah, this is way too snarky for what Airbnb actually is.

  • By dreamcompiler 2025-05-142:595 reply

    Airbnb made the same mistake Google did: They screwed up their core service. I used to be a steady ABB customer but now hotels are almost always cheaper, offer better service, and are more predictable.

    Not to mention that hotel websites are typically easier to navigate and contain a lot less React-sludge that makes every click take forever to respond.

    • By cobertos 2025-05-143:065 reply

      I had this experience too. Booked on AirBnb with someone who was about the same price as the hotels. Turns out the hosts were just employees of some letting company. They wanted photo ID, a deposit, and sign a second contract in a _separate website_, which I declined. Contacting AirBnb support they said this was fully allowed and I should have read the description harder. I did get a full refund but was told it was only because it was "my first time" and I've never had other issues.

      I'm glad I turned around and booked with a hotel. It was very personable, good value, and better than what I would've gotten for the same price on AirBnb for that city.

      • By octo888 2025-05-147:34

        > They wanted photo ID, a deposit, and sign a second contract in a _separate website_

        Yup my average airbnb experience in eg Spain is: dealing with an agent, asked to submit all my personal data to some random third party, all other communication done via WhatsApp, and often my number is given to third parties without my consent who spam me with things like offers of experiences/day trips etc

      • By mykowebhn 2025-05-148:503 reply

        Just note that in a lot of countries, like Spain, the rental or hotel establishments are required by law to collect a lot of your information. It feels totally intrusive, but it's the law unfortunately.

        • By pas 2025-05-1410:27

          Sure, but I expect AirBnB to handle this. (At least clearly communicate the requirement, cite the relevant statutes, link them, explain them, and help both parties be compliant while respecting users' privacy and hosts' time.)

        • By dspillett 2025-05-1410:12

          Also, in places where there are such requirements, someone not following them and requesting the information could be a significant red flag. What other ordinances are they ignoring that could affect your safety or just your enjoyment?

        • By lifestyleguru 2025-05-1410:282 reply

          I had some random folks in hostel reception taking full photo with their private smartphone of my id document "for the police", despite I clearly said I do not consent to have a copy of my document taken. Spanish hosts are absolutely shady and sloppy privacy wise.

          EDIT. Spaniards don't take it personally. There is a war at the EU borders and there are waves of scams and various predatory behaviours, plus usual organised scams from Balkans, China, and India. Visitors will not be happy about their documents being scanned.

          • By xav0989 2025-05-1410:441 reply

            Where it’s the law for the lodging provides to have a copy of ID, you either consent to have them make a copy of your ID or you don’t get a place to stay. You don’t get to not consent and also get a place to stay.

          • By rafram 2025-05-1410:592 reply

            They were probably telling the truth. It’s pretty common to have to register hotel/hostel stays with the authorities, and it’s increasingly uncommon to own a flatbed scanner - so what did you expect them to do, pull out a DSLR?

            • By vel0city 2025-05-1413:41

              I'd expect them to get the right equipment for them to operate their business instead of having people use their private cell phones to save my photo id to their personal iCloud account and God knows where else.

              It's like you're arguing banks should be absolved of using tls because it's just so tricky.

              If your business requires you to handle PII I expect you to have the right equipment and processes to handle it.

            • By lifestyleguru 2025-05-1411:021 reply

              Identify the guest and write down the details read from the document, that's what most in Europe outside of Spain are doing.

              • By ghaff 2025-05-1419:43

                I stayed with a friend in a Balkan country a couple years back and she had to take my passport and that of a couple of relatives down to the police station.

      • By bsimpson 2025-05-143:331 reply

        There are too many shady middlemen in the vacation rentals space. I refuse to rent any place that has a separate lease, but they're no longer unheard of.

        To some degree, I understand the businessification of rentals - it's uncomfortable for both parties if you're trying to get a grandma to meet you to exchange keys after a late flight. But also, that person-to-person charm is a big part of why people chose Airbnbs in the first place. If it's just an IKEA flip of an old apartment, why bother?

        I've actually noticed that my taste in interior design has been impacted. The "pastel and sculpted veneer" aesthetic that took over Airbnb, "modern" coffee shops, and supposedly adult furniture brands like West Elm disgusts me now. I suspect it would have appealed to me if it hadn't been badly copied with shitty materials so many times. Now, I associate it with hollow experiences, poor craftsmanship, and attempts to get me to pay more for a "quality" I won't receive.

        • By fuomag9 2025-05-146:50

          Here in Italy the law say that it’s mandatory to meet in person to give you the keys and to do identification, so the grandma should meet you anyway

          Of course there are people that still ignore this, but the government has started to crackdown on this a bit, for example some months ago they started removing key boxes on the walls in the street

      • By vishalontheline 2025-05-143:423 reply

        What city was this booking for?

        • By atlasunshrugged 2025-05-147:31

          Not OP but something similar to me has happened in Berlin, but in my understanding this is more due to local regulation which effectively makes "true" Airbnb's illegal and the places that remain on the platform are basically apartment letting businesses

        • By stavros 2025-05-144:40

          Not the OP, but happened to me in London.

        • By cobertos 2025-05-144:59

          This was in Manchester, UK

      • By wnc3141 2025-05-155:431 reply

        any chance this was the "sonder" brand? They have weirdly invasive identity requirements.

    • By fasthands9 2025-05-143:395 reply

      I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options.

      I think airbnb is still the better option in many situations - such as when you are willing to pay a premium to be in nature or you going on vacation with 6+ people.

      I don't really see how better tech would ever prevent this outcome. Perhaps this disappointing in terms of continual growth, but I think it was inevitable and still provides a good path for the company to be uniquely useful.

      • By darkerside 2025-05-144:082 reply

        The only way to compete against the economy of scale was the original thesis of AirBnB. People were renting out their primary homes to bring in an extra stream of income. It was never going to be mainstream profitable to buy a normal apartment and rent it out on AirBnB.

        • By OccamsMirror 2025-05-146:091 reply

          > It was never going to be mainstream profitable to buy a normal apartment and rent it out on AirBnB.

          It was never meant to be. It definitely has been though. Lots of people making much more money renting out AirBnBs rather than using their property for long term leasing. Which has obviously compounded the housing issues most cities are currently experiencing.

          • By pas 2025-05-1410:32

            Cities ossified to unimaginably bad levels, which clamped down demand for large-scale construction, which significantly contributed to the productivity of said industry stagnating since "forever".

            Compared to these structural problems short term tourist rentals are a complete red herring.

        • By fasthands9 2025-05-1414:32

          I don't think this is material to the user?

          Say I own a house and I just rent it out a few weeks a year. Even if it's not a source of income I am still going to price it to the highest amount that people are willing to pay.

      • By lotsofpulp 2025-05-143:442 reply

        > there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price.

        That way was to skirt laws around obtaining hotel permits and zoning and paying all the relevant hotel taxes and business insurance.

        • By xdfgh1112 2025-05-144:052 reply

          Exactly. Airbnb was much cheaper than hotels when it started because of this.

          • By fkyoureadthedoc 2025-05-1412:281 reply

            And better. It was all around a better experience, analogous to Uber vs taxi. But while Uber is still more convenient than taxi, I haven't even considered using AirBnB in years.

            • By hidingfearful 2025-05-1412:431 reply

              agreeing (strongly) that uber is better than taxi, and yet again on price it is because uber skirts the law-- drivers typically do not have commercial insurance etc and also uber subsidized rides for a long time with VC money.

              • By lotsofpulp 2025-05-1416:49

                That does not seem to be true:

                https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/insurance/?city=portland

                >When you earn with a transportation network company (TNC), referred to here as ridesharing, most states require extra—and costly—insurance.

                >Uber maintains this commercial insurance on your behalf. What’s covered depends on factors such as who was at fault; whether you were offline, online, en route, or on-trip; and your personal insurance policy. Learn more about the commercial insurance coverage Uber maintains on your behalf below.

        • By fasthands9 2025-05-1414:30

          This is a very good point.

          But I still think it was inevitable that cities caught up, either by restricting AirBNB units or giving in and allowing more hotel construction. There was no path for Airbnb to grow for 30 years without it ending up with basic econmics.

      • By ricardobeat 2025-05-1410:03

        They shouldn’t be competing. Renting out space on AirBnB was supposed to be an occasional thing and not a full time business.

      • By bgnn 2025-05-1419:40

        Here in Europe there are a lot of local websites for this kind of group accomodations in nature etc. and often the hosts there are much much more approachable and friendly, plus it's often cheaper than Airbnb.

        One big example is Gites de France [1] with 55k listings, which is a 70 year old guide. Most of these aren't anywhere else. It doesn't make sense to look elsewhere when travelling in France. Other countries often have something similar, maybe in a smaller scale. For example there are holiday homes websites in the Netherlands, with close to 1000 listings [2].

        [1] https://www.gites-de-france.com/en [2] https://www.vakantieadressen.nl/

      • By lm28469 2025-05-158:24

        > I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options.

        Reminder that airbnb was supposed to be about renting your place when you were out of town, not buying 5 buildings to become an hotel chain yourself...

        At least hotels don't ask you to clean the dishes, switch of the fridge and do the laundry before you leave

    • By Gigachad 2025-05-143:373 reply

      Shouldn’t it expected that a hotel would be able to provide a better service considering they are doing it in bulk and specialise in it. Vs a bunch of individual untrained hosts.

      Seems more like Airbnb ran out of money to burn and hotels lifted their game.

      • By riffraff 2025-05-146:27

        I think it's mostly the fact that AirBnB stopped being outside the law. Once municipalities started regulating them, hosts started paying taxes etc.. they lost the price edge.

      • By manwe150 2025-05-143:461 reply

        In corporate lingo, I think their “core business” is any vacation rental? Partnering with hotels could perhaps have been a viable path for them to grow that and still fit with their business acumen. But I use other platforms for that service now.

        • By lolinder 2025-05-143:521 reply

          What kind of partnership with hotels could they have made that would have set them apart from the dozen options I already have for booking hotels?

          • By pas 2025-05-1410:37

            There's no need to be super different. AirBnB has a huge userbase, cashflow, reputation, etc... they ought to provide a good search and booking service to users. (And there's all the potential for adding more and more upsell points and value-added services. From flights, insurance, car rental, local activities, museum and national park tickets to ... whatever they are now fucking around with, like fitness and food.)

      • By BiteCode_dev 2025-05-1412:271 reply

        No, AirBnB just became much more expensive. And it's disguised as processing fees, cleaning fees, etc.

        So if I ever take the risk of getting an Airbnb instead of a hotel, then I know the next time I book I'll pay cash directly with the host because it will be that much cheaper.

        It's like uber: the bait and switch to a service that becomes less good and more expensive is costing them because the competition survived the first wave.

        Also, the regulations caught up with them.

        Basically, they wanted to win by scummy means, like a lot of American startup that calls doing illegal or immoral stuff "growth hacks".

        Still worked well, they are a leader, but not enough to kill the game, and now they have to fight.

        Good.

        • By dreamcompiler 2025-05-1419:411 reply

          > ...the next time I book I'll pay cash directly with the host because it will be that much cheaper.

          This probably won't work for you. It specifically violates Airbnb's TOS to attempt this, and Airbnb scans all messages between you and the host to ensure that you are not attempting this.

          As for arranging it with a F2F conversation with the host, it's been years since I've rented an Airbnb and met a host F2F. That doesn't happen much any more.

          • By BiteCode_dev 2025-05-155:10

            The next ones I'll do it and I know it will work because I've been doing it regularly for years. I always get the personal phone number of the host, AirBnB can't do jack about it.

            In fact, it's not legal for AirBnB to prevent it in my country.

    • By SwtCyber 2025-05-149:00

      Between loyalty programs, clearer pricing, and just not having to stress about cleaning rules or weird checkout times, they’ve quietly caught up while Airbnb got distracted

    • By gsf_emergency 2025-05-144:42

      >same mistake Google did

      This made me realize that their original strategy was to extract the promise from the fat long tail of their respective supply ("unique experience" for abnb, "relevant search results" for goog). But then the Septembers are apt to become eternal if you can't keep it at a level manageable by humans, like a dang-or-2

      From TFA

      >I want to be a luchador!” he tells me, then immediately regrets it.

      (dang is probably quite great at minimizing regrets a la Jeff, the insta ones most of all)

      >Leave it to the subconscious to highlight what matters.

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