Rivian’s micromobility spinoff Also has just taken the wraps off its TM-B e-bike, TM-Q pedal-assisted electric quad bike, and Alpha Wave helmet that represents “a breakthrough in rider safety and connectivity.”
2025-10-2218:00252451www.theverge.com
A shapeshifting, pedal-by-wire, USB-C chargeable e-bike.
The TM-B (aka Transcendent Mobility - Bike) with its 24 x 2.6-inch wheels and integrated front- and rear-lighting looks and functions like nothing else on the market. It features a new pedal-by-wire drivetrain called “DreamRide” developed in-house. The rider pedals a generator, which replenishes the battery, while a separate software-driven traction motor drives the rear wheel via a Gates Carbon belt.
The removable battery — available in either 538Wh or 808Wh packs, offering up 100 miles of range — features two USB-C ports. The batteries can be charged over USB-C at 240W, going from zero to full in two hours and 20 minutes or three hours and 45 minutes, respectively. They can also act as a portable power bank for your gadgets. An E Ink display shows the battery’s current charge.
As a Class 3 e-bike, it has a pedal-assisted top speed of 28mph (45kph). It also features a throttle good for 20mph where regulations allow, and an astounding 180Nm of torque on tap — enough to flatten steep hills and make quick starts off the line when carrying heavy loads. Hydraulic disc brakes help bring everything to a controlled stop, while regenerative braking could extend range by an estimated 25 percent.
The top frame of the TM-B is modular by design, so the bike can be transformed without tools into a cargo hauler, kid carrier, or cruiser with a bench seat. The seat post is unlocked via a quick swipe from the 5-inch circular touchscreen console. An inverted front fork suspension and air shock will help soak up bumps for riders ranging from 4 feet 11 inches to 6 feet 8 inches.
There’s also plenty of security baked in that automatically activates and deactivates when the rider is nearby. It locks the battery, back wheel, and frame, with tamper alerts and bike location provided in real time.
A $4,500 launch edition TM-B can be preordered now with delivery slated for spring 2026. A $4,000 base edition is scheduled for sometime later in 2026.
Also also unveiled its Alpha Wave helmet. “It incorporates Release Layer System (RLS), a technology that offers a step-change in rotational impact protection,” says Also, which certainly sounds impressive. It also features integrated lights and a four-speaker, wind-shielded internal audio system with two noise-canceling mics. The helmet integrates with the TM-B’s console, where music, calls, and podcasts can be controlled on the bike.
Lastly, Also’s TM-Q is the TM-B extended to a pedal-assisted electric four-wheeler to carry heavier loads. Also says it’ll be “bike lane compliant,” so it can be used for last-mile deliveries in congested cities. It’ll be sold in both commercial and consumer variants, the latter for ridding around gated communities.
The TM-B aesthetic is certainly divisive — I love it, but I was a big fan of Cake’s utilitarian designs before bankruptcy. It’s a lot to take in and certainly needs thorough testing to draw any final conclusion. But it’s good to see a fresh, deep-pocketed face breathing new life into e-bikes when entrenched players and boutique brands are struggling to stay afloat.
“Our vision is to bring together the latest technology with fun, thoughtful design to create small EVs that inspire people to adopt these more efficient modes,” said Chris Yu, president of Also. “This launch has been years in the making and it is just the beginning of a broader platform we are building that we believe will catalyze adoption globally.”
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Comments
This looks like a trendy car company solution to a commuter ebike. The ebike market is quite saturated already. Full suspension is kind of a gimmick on an ebike, my commute goes through some steep slopes, rocks and mud, and my hardtail is hapoy with it. The whole "pedaling to load the battery" is both inefficient (you'll lose north of 70% of energy on the most efficient bike dynamos) and less reliable than having a direct link between your pedals and the wheel. The only advantage I see is not having a derailleur, but your derailleur will still be there when your bike's dead. Belt drive has its fellowship, but I still prefer a chain: I've put >4000km in my commuter with marginal lubrification and maybe 2-3 cleanings a year, it's still kicking, and finding a belt is harder than a chain.
I'm assuming that they will find buyers, either because it looks like a cool toy, or because rivian has fans ; but for all intents and purposes I don't think it's a good bike. It's probably a matter of preference, I'm on my bike whether it's sunny in the summer raining the rest of the year, and sometimes under the snow. It's a convenience. My commuter receives very little attention from me, it just works. I clean the chain just about every time I have to replace the brakes, and that's it for maintenance. Everything that makes it less sturdy is a danger that it will be ledd reliable and more if a hassler, that's why I wouldn't go with unproven solutions like that
It still misses something basic for a commuter bike, a mudguard.
An urban or commuting bike without one makes no sense whatsoever.
Mudguards should be default for bikes. It's absurd that when it rains people ride bikes and walk around with a stripe of shite up their back and front b/c manufacturers are too cheap to include fenders (mudguards) on bikes.
The customers aren't much smarter of course - they bought the bike! Anyone fool enough to walk around (twice) looking like that deserves ridicule.
By JumpCrisscross 2025-10-2317:58 > customers aren't much smarter of course - they bought the bike
You seem to have undermined your argument for selling mid guards as a default.
> Anyone fool enough to walk around (twice) looking like that deserves ridicule
Whatever floats your boat.
By Theodores 2025-10-239:48 Chances are, you can buy a bicycle that is 'made' by whatever your favourite car brand is.
Need a Ferrari bicycle? How about a Ford, a BMW, a Mercedes or anything else?
Chances are that there is a bicycle out there with your favourite car logo slapped on the headtube. And none of them have sold, maybe with the exception of Peugeot, but they got out of bicycles too (albeit to license the brand). Note that Peugeot and scores of other auto companies started with bicycles before adding motors and wheels, so bicycles should be a core competency.
As for Rivian and their bicycle, they will sell a few to people that just want the bed of their truck to have a bicycle in it. Non-Rivian truck owners? They will take a pass.
But as a 'halo product', it should work. They can get the marketing they want from it.
Efficiency here is the NFR that would be like: perfect is the enemy of good.
Think of this an electric bike with optional pedal assist from the human. Efficiency is irrelevant if the range is large enough.
By charles_f 2025-10-2314:51 I have a large battery, I ran short of power a couple of times in the past year. These batteries age and if you want to use their range to limit that aging, at some point you'll have to gamble. It's already bad enough to human power those heavy electric bikes, adding more drag doesn't sound fun.
>The whole "pedaling to load the battery" is both inefficient (you'll lose north of 70% of energy on the most efficient bike dynamos) and less reliable than having a direct link between your pedals and the wheel
Can't you still run it downhill and regain energy? A lot of downhills in the city can't utilize the gravity all the way, instead having red lights just at the bottom of the hill
Afaik almost all ebikes do not have regen. If it's a hub motor it's often geared with a one way bearing, and if it's mid drive (getting more popular) then you cant have regen as the chain is not back-drivable.
The efficiency gains of bicycle regen is not high enough and there is added drag of pulling a motor along if you are just pedalling normally. Most regard the trade-offs to be not worth it.
There is one Canadian ebike parts manufacturer that's pushing for regen, and their main reason for doing so is that it saves on brake pad wear.
I’ve had an ebike that had regen (Stromer ST2). It wouldn’t have any effect on the battery, but was great for savings life of your brake pads
By jandrese 2025-10-2316:11 I suspect that is correct. There just isn't that much available energy to recover in most bike stops. The point about brake pad wear however is more relevant than you might expect. Bike brakes can be surprisingly expensive and on my e-bike I went through a full set in only 700 miles.
Of course there is the minor problem that the hub was mounted in the rear wheel so it's only good for gentle to moderate braking, but thankfully that is the vast majority of what you do.
By actionfromafar 2025-10-239:411 reply I don't know if my ebike has regen or not, but if doesn't, it must be dumping that energy as heat somewhere. With the battery connected, the motor is breaking the bike. With the battery disconnected, the bike rolls as freely as a normal bike. It's very noticeable.
Yeah it’s just heat. Some e-bikes have a clutch to disengage the motor to prevent this motor breaking.
By actionfromafar 2025-10-2313:28 Wouldn't it be much simpler to disengage the battery electrically than a physical clutch? Or is the "clutch" just an electronic?
And where is the heat dumped? Why does the physical resistance disappear when the battery is disconnected?
By scotty79 2025-10-239:19 There are some scooters with regen I think. At least I've seen scooter motor controllers with that option. I'm not sure if it's worth it. Maybe in hilly landscape.
> Can't you still run it downhill and regain energy?
That just means you had stored potential energy, otherwise how are you going to get up the hill?
I'm not sure what you mean? You need to get up the hill to get down the hill, but today when I do that the energy downhill gets wasted through heating of my brakes at the bottom. If I could use that energy for easier time the next hill around that'd be really nice.
By jeffbee 2025-10-2314:08 On moderate descents a bike reaches equilibrium with the air resistance at a low speed, so there's nothing to recover.
Electric generator->battery->electric motor drive train should be fairly efficient. I'd be surprised if it was lower than 80%.
Traditional dynamos are fairly small parasitic loads and not really comparable.
By phkahler 2025-10-2311:54 Thats called a series hybrid and it kinda sucks. Motors only reach high efficiency at high loads, and you have 2 of them between the feet and wheel. That configuration is bad when the battery dies because you will feel that inefficiency.
Dynamo is the general term for electric generators from mechanical displacement. I'm not talking about the small contraptions that power lights on a bike, these are traditionally even worse in efficiency.
Lets be charitable and call it 90%, it's still going to charge the battery (which is described as a buffer), and that will have a max of 95%, discharge the battery, same, and power the motor, which has likely the same efficiency. You're at. 9.95.95*.9 = 73% efficiency at motor output. You're giving 27% to the gods of thermodynamics, unless you like the extra complex cardio you're getting, I don't really see the point. Regular bike transmissions are not free either, but they're closer to 95%.
Thinking about all that, I don't get why they didn't use a hub motor. Why adding a belt when you could have transmitted the power directly to the wheel?
By nimos 2025-10-2315:53 Your original post says 70% loss, i.e. 30% efficiency. In the context of an e-bike, to me, 70% efficiency is fine. It's a large bike and the majority of the power for the majority of users is likely going to be coming from the battery anyways.
Also presumably we should be comparing the efficiency to other ebikes not traditional bikes. I'm not sure how effective traditional ebikes are at integrating motor + human power together but I'd imagine there are some additional losses.
By buenzlikoder 2025-10-237:321 reply Normal bicycle drivetrains have efficiencies around 95%...
By mark-r 2025-10-250:41 Haven't there been studies showing that a bicycle is the most efficient form of movement available?
By IshKebab 2025-10-2312:30 > I'd be surprised if it was lower than 80%.
80% is really bad for a bicycle. A well-maintained bicycle drive chain is basically 100% efficient.
By hex4def6 2025-10-2317:11 I'm assuming the thought process behind the pedal->generator->traction motor is that you can keep the cadence in the ideal / most efficient range. Problem with mid drives is that (at least for me), I prefer lower cadence which means driving the hub drive at a less efficient range.
I don't hate it, but I'm curious to see what they think their target audience is.
Is it someone that wants to do a "last mile" from their car/train to office? Is it a car replacement? Is it a weekend farmers market family bike?
I feel like all of these require emphasis on different aspects. If it's a last mile commuter, it needs to be light / small so it can fit on a train or car trunk. Probably also needs to be light so it's luggable into/out of the trunk by an average person.
I guess for me, the most interesting ebike idea is that of a "last mile(s)". Something that I can easily pack in the trunk, and depending on my mood, allow me to park ~5-7 miles from work and cycle the rest of the way in. There are bits of my commute near my office that are often at a standstill, and ebiking would be significantly faster to skip those. This is much less of a commitment compared to doing the entire 20mi commute by bike.
I tend to agree with comments that point out that 'modern' e-bikes are really electric motor cycles or the original "MoPed" from the 60's. And they have the same appeal, relatively cheap to operate, fit in between regulatory categories, don't require a garage to store, Etc. E-scooters aren't much better (just worse kinematics). That said, I never thought the Segway was ever going to be more than a 'niche' product whereas I had already lived in a city[1] with thousands of mopeds. To the extent they are embraced by urban planners with reduced parking mandates and their own roadways I think they are a net win for cities, when they terrorize pedestrians on sidewalks, not so much.
[1] Brussels.
There are plenty of modern ebikes that are just bikes with a motor. I have one of these for instance (well, the previous generation): https://ride1up.com/product/roadster-v3/
The best description I've seen of using it is "cycling without hills".
The fact that we use the same name for these and "low speed electric motorcycles" is... unfortunate.
By trollbridge 2025-10-2312:03 Early motorcycles were also indeed just bicycles with a motor.
I think that the Class 1 and Class 2 and Class 3 regulations when properly followed tell you what you are getting. Since this is Class 3, it really is close to a Moped and has a lot more restrictions depending on your area similar to a motorcycle but still allowed on city streets without insurance in most places in the USA, but often has restrictions in parks etc.
The problem is that many other manufacturers have “selectable” class which really is meaningless and doesn’t really tell you what you are buying and often times is really close to a motorcycle. But unlike cars you can easily import bikes that don’t conform to the regulation so many don’t.
If I were buying a bike for my young child I would stick to class 1 or 2.
By horsawlarway 2025-10-232:443 reply I agree, the classifications are pretty solid when followed and I'm with you on class 2 being the right pick for most people - But I'd argue they're too complicated.
I think it's also a social issue right now, there's very little general information provided to bikers (ex - most people don't even know these classifications exist, and can't remember them if they do), and not a large enough chunk of the population is biking yet to get a general consensus on "acceptable" behavior.
Couple that with low enforcement, and it makes sense a fair number of people are just clueless.
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Just simple things like "bike speed limit" signs on trails/paths would probably help a lot.
I have a class 3 ebike, and I'd still 100% prefer to ride it on a trail with a speed limit of 20mph instead of having trying to mingle with cars on even moderatly busy streets.
The laws should let bikers understand the desired behavior, and allow them to self-regulate.
Especially given that this isn't in the same risk category as larger vehicles (e-bikes are half the weight of mopeds, and 28mph is very different than 45)
Then give folks tickets. They're too useful to go away - we'll get it figured out.
I think the MPH limit for ebike classification makes sense. But why do they need a 750W limit? Whats the harm in a motor putting out 3000W to get a loaded cargo bike up a steep hill at 8 MPH.
> a motor putting out 3000W to get a loaded cargo bike up a steep hill at 8 MPH
Probably two reasons to avoid this. Practically, it's more expensive because not only do you have a 3kW motor but everything else must handle the increased demands. It just gets more expensive all around just for a niche case equivalent of "everyone needs a truck to carry 16 sheets of drywall and 12 2x4s".
The second is that regulators were reasonably pragmatic. Top speed, peak power, and weight are good proxies for safety, rather than having to regulate every aspect of a bike's operation like with cars. Bikes are spending most of their time on flat ground on city streets where huge power/torque are not just unnecessary, they're dangerous. Already plenty of e-bikes are going all out (governors are easily bypassed) on sidewalks and bike lanes where the others have 100W "motors". In my otherwise very civilized part of the world, every day I ride I almost get run over by assholes on full blown motorcycles speeding on the bike lane because it's faster. I have never, ever seen one get a fine. Nobody can do enforcement of safety at rider level especially for very lightly regulated and unregistered vehicles.
By horsawlarway 2025-10-2317:50 > Nobody can do enforcement of safety at rider level especially for very lightly regulated and unregistered vehicles.
I don't particularly buy this. I think we've spent very little time and effort actually trying.
I also think that the lax enforcement as it currently stands is a pretty practical take... My read is that ebikes (even the class 3s) aren't actually out there killing people in crashes all that often.
Of the folks who are dying on bikes... the majority of the deaths are still happening due to collisions with motor vehicles. The second largest cause of death is the rider dying due to lack of helmet usage coupled with the higher speeds.
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Basically - I agree we should improve social patterns for not being a dick on a fast bike in mixed-use spaces.
But if we're talking about actual benefit to safety... the problem is still the cars and not the bikes. At least for now (again - it's shifting because e-bikes are just useful as all get out).
Your first point feels like it should easily be handled by regular market forces, ie no one can produce one in a price range anyone would want to buy.
I would suggest that the only good reason to have a peak power limit in law on the engine is so that if you unlock it/chip it you can't blast off at 60mph. But at that point you're breaking the speed limit either way, so I'm still not convinced a peak power limit is reasonable.
I have a powered bike that limits the speed to the lawful limit, but the engine has 500w instead of 250w, meaning my bike is better at getting up hills than my wife's. I don't think this should be illegal, and if I want to pay for a stronger engine, that is reasonably up to me.
That nobody is enforcing the speed limit on bike lanes is an enforcement issue, and it doesn't get solved by having unnecessarily tangential laws. And I'm certainly not a "deregulate everything" person.
> should easily be handled by regular market forces
I think we've heard this blurb so many times it should be a joke to be ridiculed by now. It usually prefaces a story about some abusive, exploitative action.
> But at that point you're breaking the speed limit either way, so I'm still not convinced a peak power limit is reasonable.
That's why I said that enforcement at rider level is impossible. The burden to check if someone removed some governor is so high that it might as well not be regulated in any way. Or you heavily strengthen and give an even broader mandate to LEO, and I hear that's what everyone wants more of these days.
So the easy way around this is to regulate the manufacturing or sales. You limit the power of the motor, you implicitly limit how fast the bike can realistically go, and how much weight it can carry at speed. This makes things a little bit safer. If you need more, choose a different vehicle. You don't buy a Fiesta and then shout in the wind that it's not allowed to have 18 wheels and carry 35t.
> That nobody is enforcing the speed limit on bike lanes is an enforcement issue, and it doesn't get solved by having unnecessarily tangential laws
I get that you really want something but this isn't an argument. The laws aren't "tangential" they are very much on point, trying to keep a balance between usability and safety faced with practical reality. Not the wishy-washy "the market will handle it" or "I should get it because I want it and anyone stopping me is stupid". The law allows every kind of vehicle for every need, under the appropriate conditions. You just think your conditions for your needs come first. Some people ride like that so the "tangential laws" exist to protect others from them.
By trollbridge 2025-10-2312:062 reply The “market handling it” would mean liability lawsuits followed by mandatory liability insurance, with insurers installing telemetry devices on an ebike to decide how much to charge you or even just drop you as an uninsurable risk altogether.
By throwaway173738 2025-10-2312:36 In other words enough people would have to get hit and killed that there would be a huge series of lawsuits. In that scenario those people are still dead.
“The market handling it” is why there are hordes of cars with purposefully loud mufflers blasting past my house at many hours of the day. My state chose to make it illegal to build something like that but it’s perfectly legal to sell the parts. So the market did what the market does.
> The “market handling it” would mean liability lawsuits
Amazon and Temu sell so much illegal and dangerous junk and no lawsuit changed this. People still get hurt or killed by battery fires, malfunctioning products, intoxication with all kinds of chemicals.
> followed by mandatory liability insurance
People complain that they have to wear a helmet. They won't be fine with mandatory liability insurance. The level of bike theft shows that bikes are notoriously untraceable, it's very hard or prohibitively expensive to enforce this.
> with insurers installing telemetry devices on an ebike
Raises costs, requires cloud services and connectivity, and the owner can still hack the antenna off or shield it and the bike is now permanently offline but with no way to detect that on the street.
By trollbridge 2025-10-2321:481 reply Amazon and Temu aren't allowed to sell cars, because we still regulate our cars somewhat, so the cars that are sold in America and Australia and other places have to meet certain safety requirements. The manufacturer is also 100% liable for things like recalls or safety defects, regardless of which dealer sold it to you or if you bought car used.
You can say people "won't be fine with mandatory liability insurance". That's what it's "mandatory". If you get caught operating a vehicle without one, you might just well lose your vehicle and have it impounded on the spot, have to pay a hefty fine, and have to prove you have insurance before you're allowed to drive again.
Insurers can and do detect if your telemetry stops transmitting - for example, State Farm offers a substantial discount if you transmit telemetry. If you sign up for this and then yank the device out, they simply charge you a higher rate.
We also have things like "helmet laws". You can't (for example) operate a motorcycle in California without a helmet. If you do, you'll get pulled over and ticketed and are stuck being unable to ride it away until someone either brings you a ticket or you go for a nice long walk and get one yourself, with a high chance your bike gets impounded from the side of the road.
I don't know why the attitude persists that the government can't regulate things and enforce laws. They certainly can.
By close04 2025-10-249:59 Sorry but your post is all over the place. It's not nice to introduce random things in a conversation and force anyone who wants to respond to you to address all that randomness.
> I don't know why the attitude persists that the government can't regulate things and enforce laws. They certainly can.
Who said anything about government regulation? The latest part of the thread was about "the market" handling it, you yourself even said "with liability lawsuits", now you talk government regulation which is the opposite of that.
> Amazon and Temu aren't allowed to sell cars
Who said anything about cars? We're talking bicycles and other things people want to stay unregulated. They sell bad products and "the market" didn't handle it, not with lawsuits or regulation or enforcement. So many ebikes were catching fire in my complex while charging that the administration banned even storing ebikes in the underground parking or the individual storage units. The importer of the bikes (Amazon store?) was of course dissolved by that time.
> because we still regulate our cars somewhat
Who said anything about car regulations? That's exactly what people don't want with bicycles. Look at this discussion, people want to pretend even mopeds should still be called "just bikes" so they stay unregulated. The whole point of a bicycle is to be a simple unregulated vehicle with minimal capabilities. Not multi kilowatt motor vehicle that can carry heavy loads up a hill at speeds that most people barely cycle on the flat.
> You can't (for example) operate a motorcycle in California without a helmet.
Who said anything about motorcycles? You can operate a bicycle without a helmet because people weren't fine with mandatory helmet laws. Just like it will happen with "mandatory liability insurance and telemetry" for bikes. It might happen when we all live in a dystopia where everything you do is tracked, or for some bicycles that aren't really bicycles (mopeds and higher categories).
Whoever wants powerful motors or high carrying capacity should stop calling it "a bicycle" and call it a "moped" or "S-Pedelec". These already require insurance and a license plate. There are enough categories here [0] to cover all needs. Pretending everything on 2 wheels is a bicycle does cyclists a disservice and is like calling my car "an umbrella" so I'm allowed to take it everywhere with me.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_category#EU_classifica...
By smohare 2025-10-2315:28 [dead]
By appreciatorBus 2025-10-233:23 My opinion is been that 747’s, cars, trucks, bikes, E bikes, an even pedestrians should be regulated on kinetic energy - basically their ability to do harm to others.
My fear is that without it, regulatory arbitrage will turn every inch of land that doesn’t have a building into Death Race 2000. Cars are not allowed on sidewalks to protect friends? No problem - here’s an electric motorcycle disguised as a bicycle. Hi
By HALtheWise 2025-10-2315:55 Doing some quick math, if your bike is using 3kw to climb a reasonably steep (15% grade) hill at 8mph, we can calculate the weight it must be carrying, which ends up being about 1,200lbs
To answer your question, the limit on motor power exists as a proxy for limiting the weight, speed, and acceleration of ebikes within safe limits, since having an ebike charging uphill at 20mph with 500lbs of payload would present actual safety risks. Trying to regulate payload/speed/slope combinations directly has practical problems (police officers don't really want to stop delivery drivers to weight their cargo), while regulating motor power is much simpler.
By samth 2025-10-2314:07 You don't need 3000W, 1kW is plenty. I have a Yuba Mundo (one of the biggest long-tail cargo bikes) and my Bafang motor tops out around 1kW and it's plenty even for the biggest hills here in Bloomington (which is quite hilly).
By pandaman 2025-10-2323:06 The problem I see with the e-bikers is that they just can't ride even at 20 mph. They don't fall off the bike because it moves fast enough but otherwise they are completely inept: break with the rear wheel only, can't stay in the lane, can't corner, don't signal turns, don't warn when passing etc.
20 mph is a moderate speed for a road bike, however, you need to ride a lot to comfortably get to this speed and as a result, when you get there, your skills are adequate. A roadie riding 20+ mph is not going to enter a blind corner in a left lane or skid out trying to maneuver around some trash on the path. Why should we punish people who bike for exercise? It's not like e-bikers are going to wipe much less at 20 mph, your 100 lbs "sauron" without front brakes is going to skid even at 10 mph.
Adjusted for inflation the Segway would be close to $10,000 today after taxes.
That price tag and the way overhyped lead up to it's unveiling combined to kill any chance the Segway had. Dean's (RIP, I think) vision might have had a chance if it wasn't the same price as a lightly used new-to-me Kia Sephia.
At even half the $5000+ price it would have found a lot more adoption. Tourism companies still use the shit out of them and once they start dumping them, I bet they'll be the cool thing to have.
By intrasight 2025-10-231:17 It's Woodie Flowers who passed away
By slumberlust 2025-10-2311:22 Dean is not dead and has owned a biotech company in Manchester NH for a four decades now.
By onionisafruit 2025-10-230:301 reply Dean Kamen is still kicking
By guitarsteve 2025-10-231:23 Probably thinking of Jimi Heselden who bought the Segway company and died driving a Segway
It depends on what you mean with an e-bike, most e-bikes are pedelecs.
That means they don't have a throttle which is what a motorcycle or moped has.
You have to pedal to get an assist, this can either be a hub drive or a mid drive motor which have different characteristics (that's another story).
> most e-bikes are pedelecs
I think the "most" is overstated; I've been shopping for a year or two, and most of the ones I see have throttles.
Must be an American thing? I have never even seen anything else than pedelecs.
By skeeter2020 2025-10-234:02 I see lots of "sit down" electric fat bikes; they're all throttle assist. Many of the smaller wheeled models are as well.
By tim333 2025-10-2311:31 In the UK they have to have pedals to be legal.
By nntwozz 2025-10-2311:05 Globally, an average of 79.35% of e-bikes used are pedal-assisted types, which allow users to cycle faster and with less physical effort.
Less popular among e-bike users are throttle-assisted and speed pedelec bikes.
Percentage of pedal-assisted e-bike users:
78.06% (Europe)
79.56% (United States)
81.17% (Asia)
References here: https://laka.co/gb/e-bike-market-statistics#:~:text=e%2Dbike...
By ndsipa_pomu 2025-10-2322:50 Here in the UK, only pedelecs are exempt from road licensing laws, so the throttle bikes aren't legal to use on public roads. Additionally, they have to stop providing assistance at 15.5mph or so. However, it's common to see riders illegally using throttle based bikes (e-motorbikes really) on the roads.
By shellfishgene 2025-10-2313:29 In pretty much all of Europe e-bikes with a throttle are considered a type of mofa/motorcycle (depends on top speed) and come with all kinds of additional rules, such as needing insurance, mandatory helmets, having to drive on the road, license plate requirement and at type of motorcycle driving license for the fast ones.
The one thing about e-bikes that I don't get is: why the chain?
https://www.voromotors.com/products/emove-roadrunner-v3-seat...
This thing has 500W hub motors, no expensive derailleur, no chain to maintain, just tires and brakes. The hub motors have internal gearing. I love mine for getting around LA.
So the difference is having pedals? Even if said pedals are just acting as a throttle and not actually making you put in any effort?
By beAbU 2025-10-236:32 That thing you linked to is not a bike, it's a motorcycle. It should be licensed, taxed and insured like one.
The chain is to connect the pedals to the rear wheel as you might expect, assuming you want to be able to pedal.
I see the rivan thing has a toothed belt rather than chain.
By shellfishgene 2025-10-2313:23 If I understood the article correctly in this case the pedals are not physically connected to the wheel, it states the pedals run a generator that charges the batteries. So for this specific bike it would actually be possible to remove the belt (save for the other disadvantages of a hub motor).
By giobox 2025-10-2321:12 This Rivian bike is bizarrely "pedal by wire" - there is no physical connection between the pedals and the rear wheel.
Instead the pedals work as a throttle to set the speed of the motor and to charge the battery while you ride, reducing depletion speed. It also harvests energy when braking.
If the battery in this bike dies completely, or is removed, you cannot pedal to move it at all. The "toothed belt" (gates drive) connects to the motor, with no link to the pedals.
In theory this design could have been done with no chain/gates drive using hub motors and still work much the same, given all the pedals are really doing is turning a dynamo-contraption to charge a battery.
I think the chain makes sense you want to let the rider pedal. If you don't, hub motors are the obvious way to go.
By actionfromafar 2025-10-239:361 reply "The rider pedals a generator, which replenishes the battery, "
The chain is probably to keep unsprung weight low. Hub motors are not the best for comfort.
Why is that? Do you want sprung mass to be heavier or unsprung mass lighter?
I see how lower unsprung mass could be easier on the tyres but I have no idea how it could impact a rider who's isolated by full suspension.
By actionfromafar 2025-10-2313:33 Sort of both, lower unsprung mass means the wheel moves more easily up and down without the rest of the vehicle doing the same.
By iancmceachern 2025-10-235:481 reply Torque, electric motors need gearboxes just like everything else
This doesn't address the question "why a chain" though.
Many motorcycles have grunty torque, gearboxes, and no chain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Shaft_drive_motorcycl...
The BMW R 100GS Paris Dakar was the bee's knees for crossing the Tanimi Desert: https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw-r100gs-pd-89...
By iancmceachern 2025-10-2315:511 reply Yes, the gear reduction is done in the "gearbox" in those. Some bikes use chains to do the same.
If you have elecreic hub motors there is no room for these between the hub motor and wheel.
By defrost 2025-10-2323:44 So, we appear to agree, there could be a shaft or a chain between the gearbox and the wheel.
Ergo, the existence of an off hub gearbox neither forces nor requires a chain to be used to transfer power.
The arguments for why use a chain Vs why use a shaft are not predicated on the existence of a gearbox.
Shaft drives are less efficient than (clean) chain drives. Chains are just really, really good (outside of extremely dirty conditions).
Chains wear down, as do gear wheels.
They both have their pro's and cons, I've a few hundred thousand km's across the globe each with both shaft's and chain's.
Thank you for expressing your personal opinion though.
Everything wears down.
Chains are objectively more efficient than shaft drives -- it's not my personal opinion.
By defrost 2025-10-244:40 The two major downsides for chains are maintenance and longevity.
The main benefits to shaft drive are longevity and ease of maintenance.
That's objectively more efficient to those that travel a lot in harsh conditions.
Opinions are almost always personal.
By actionfromafar 2025-10-239:381 reply Shaft drive is more expensive to produce, tends to be a little heavier, and usually has more friction loss.
Shaft drive delivers power better, wears less than a chain, easier to maintain.
Swings, roundabouts, and tangential from answering why "Torque, electric motors need gearboxes" doesn't answer the progenitor question "why chain".
By onli 2025-10-2311:43 My bike vendor likes chains. They wear more easily, but are easy enough to maintain and change. Basically everything old school bike like has maintenance/repair advantages.
I'm not sure I agree, but more when compared with belt drive and internally geared hub. But then again, I believe him that those are hard to repair when they fail (even if they are sturdy until then).
By actionfromafar 2025-10-2313:311 reply I also prefer shaft drive over a chain. Much less hassle and if not punished, can be almost maintenance free. A chain is easily worn and can even rust away just sitting there.
By olyjohn 2025-10-2320:10 Not really if you just keep it lubed. I have a BMW shaft drive bike, and I have to change the rear end oil, the driveshaft oil, the transmission oil and the engine oil every year. My Honda just needs the chain lubed, adjusted, and engine oil changed. You check it every 600-1000 miles or so, but I can adjust and lube the chain in about 5 minutes.
By trollbridge 2025-10-2312:034 reply After seeing yet another brutal accident of an ebike yesterday, I suspect regulation is coming, including requiring drivers to be licenced the same way motorcycle operators are, vehicles registered the same way, and liability insurance required.
By karakot 2025-10-2315:55 When school ends, I often see middle and high schoolers riding cheap (and extremely fast) e-bikes through the neighborhood, frequently blowing through stop signs and generally breaking every road rules. So it's just matter of time before it all gets over-regulated.
and by a cheap bike I mean something like these "bikes":
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Suspension-Motorcycle-Batter...
https://www.amazon.com/Qlife-Adults-1500W-Suspension-Motorcy...
By shellfishgene 2025-10-2313:37 This is already the case in Europe. We have:
Pedelecs up to 25 kmh, motor only supports pedaling, max 250 watt
- Regulated like bicycles
S-Pedelecs up to 45 kmh, motor only supports pedaling; and e-bikes with a throttle
- Need helmet (specific ones, not any bike helmet)
- Need license plate
- Need insurance
- Need small motorcycle driving license (included in car license)
- Minimum age 16
- Can't use bike paths
By josefresco 2025-10-2312:09 Same here, a local woman was recently impaled by an ebike. I doubt they'll require licenses but they will start banning them on busy bike / pedestrian trails.
And mandatory helmets (even when it's not mandatory for normal bicycles).
By trenchpilgrim 2025-10-2316:19 Maybe for minors. I don't see the US enforcing helmet laws on adults.
By doctorpangloss 2025-10-235:341 reply The comments you are agreeing with: there's a lot about mopeds and drivetrains and Class 1/3, and yet nobody sees that this piece of shit doesn't even have fenders?
By ChuckMcM 2025-10-235:50 Yes, the bikes in the pictures do not have fenders. However, if you look at the press coverage, there are lots of studs on the frame for adding everything from cargo racks to front pannier wine bottle holders. That makes me unwilling to dismiss it out of hand. It is pretty clear that for this launch they were going for a 'look' and no doubt some designer at Also chose what configurations they would show.
My daily rider is a Trek Verve 2 (not electric) which Trek has a 'beauty shot'[1] of which features it without fenders. That said, mine has fenders because I don't like getting muddy water thrown up my back when I go through a puddle.
So my take here is that yes, this is a rather 'bougie' e-bike with pretentious design presentations, but if the engineers did their job correctly I expect you'll be able to equip it with fenders and other gear that you find essential on something you ride.
[1] https://media.trekbikes.com/image/upload/w_1200/Verve2Disc_2...
Mopeds but with crappier seats. Mopeds at least had decently comfortable seats and could seat a passenger —if we’re considering normal BMI folks.
Moped seats are for sitting, bike seats are for pedaling.
They're not worse, they're different because they need to be.
Are people going to pedal on these things? Mopeds could also be pedalled if stalled -unlike scooters. I mean, sure, I know their form factor is that of a bike --but its locomotion is more similar to that of a e-moped. Unfortunately with very lousy seats. At moped and these ebike speeds you want better seating.
By ygjb 2025-10-231:48 Yes. There are e-bikes that look like motorcycles or mopeds that can be pedaled, but are uncomfortable, and there are e-bikes that look vespa style scooters that have pedals but it's completely impractical to pedal them - the pedal operation is there to qualify under specific requirements to be classified as an e-bike.
So the interesting thing about this is the ... peddle-by-wire drivetrain? So unlike a normal e-bike, when its battery dies it turns into a stationary bike.
I love ebikes and generally like what Rivian does, but in a very competitive market it's hard to see the appeal of this.
By ehnto 2025-10-235:09 It is a trope at this point. I think Rivian has done a pretty good job here, but the trope is that the non-bike companies wanting to implement their technology, also feel the need to reinvent the bicycle part of the bicycle. Ignoring the decades of learning about what value a bicycle actually provides, and treats it like a technology problem.
Bikes are simple for a reason, they're light for a reason, they are maintainable for a reason, their ergonomics have been refined over decades, and so on.
I don't think non-bike companies shouldn't have a crack, it's fun to see new takes on it all, but bikes have been "disrupted" already by a dozen different forms of transport, they stick around in their current form because it fits well into the gaps the other modes leave. There's no big new problems to solve with the bicycle aspect, just pop your cool drivetrain into a regular bike and you at least get to keep the broader market of cyclists as customers.
By adrianmonk 2025-10-2223:231 reply I would hope they designed it where you can keep riding. It seems possible. Pick some charge level (say 20%) and provide less and less power assist as you approach that. Once you hit 20%, a control system tries to keep it about 20% charged. Basically you enter a mode where the battery becomes a buffer (between the pedal and wheels) rather than a power source. The bike would feel sluggish, but it wouldn't stop working.
You'd have to pedal rather hard (equivalent of riding 21.7 mph) to provide 250W of power[1], which is the minimum for most ebike motors.
1. https://a2zcalculators.com/science-and-engineering-calculato...
By adrianmonk 2025-10-2318:42 My reasoning that it's probably doable was based on efficiency.
What is the end-to-end efficiency of the generator, electronics, and motor combination? If it's 75% efficient, then you need to pedal 33% harder than normal[1]. If it's 66% efficient, then you pedal 50% harder.
Unfortunately, I can't find real data, so those efficiency numbers are guesstimates. Electric motors and generators can be very efficient, and I would hope that they'd use efficient ones for an application like an ebike.
As a point of reference, pumped hydro can be 70-80% efficient[2], and that involves a motor, a generator, and mechanical losses. That's not an apples to apples comparison, though.
---
[1] Where normal means a 100%-efficient link between pedals and wheel. Actual bike chains aren't, but they appear to be 95% or more.
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit...
By Retric 2025-10-233:45 Constant 250+W would force you to always travel at high speeds. That’s just not how E-Bikes operate.
Even 50W is a fairly significant boost for casual riding.
"rather hard" is really underselling things. Without considering generator->motor losses, 250W is a lot of power, even for a larger (>80kg/176lbs) rider. For basically anyone who doesn't train on the bike, this is an unsustainable effort.
Even a floor of 100W would rule out smaller/less athletic riders.
By esseph 2025-10-237:00 176lb is below the average male weight in the US by around 25lbs :(
By actionfromafar 2025-10-239:44 And once you are up to speed, you coast. Even on a normal bike. With the battery as a buffer, the ebike could easily bump you up to speed and use 250W or more for just a little while and then 0W for stretches.
You don't need to sustain 250W pedalling.
By blamestross 2025-10-231:021 reply This is an electric motorcycle with pedals. The presence of pedals that only-technically contribute to motion is a regulatory-dodge not an intended feature.
By intrasight 2025-10-231:181 reply As long as it only moves if you're peddling, it passes the regulatory test.
By doctoboggan 2025-10-233:342 reply I don't think this is true, class 2 e-bikes are allowed a thumb throttle up to 20mph
This is a Class 3, so it needs pedals to hit 28mph. It also has a throttle up to 20mph for class 2 operation.
That's not how the regulation works. You can't have a multi-class bicycle. It can either have a throttle, or it can exceed 20, but not both.
Apparently Californa requires a label for what class the bike is[1]. I have never seen such a label on an e-bike and I've seen a lot of e-bikes in CA.
1: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... (312.5.c)
By jeffbee 2025-10-2323:51 There are just a lot of illegal Chinese electric motorcycles on the roads in California. That doesn't make them e-bikes though.
By intrasight 2025-10-234:49 I stand corrected. I did not know that class 2 allows for throttle-only operation.
By thinkling 2025-10-2223:01 > So unlike a normal e-bike, when its battery dies it turns into a stationary bike.
Maybe you pedal the generator on the kickstand for a minute to give it enough charge to operate the electronics, and then away you go working hard like on any other e-bike that's out of charge? I don't see why it couldn't move.
When a normal ebike dies you are left with a 50-60lb bike probably not with the gearing you’d want.
By llbeansandrice 2025-10-231:031 reply That’s still a pretty huge gap from 50lbs of dead weight. This is a horrible and expensive ebike idk why HN is trying to defend it.
By kjkjadksj 2025-10-2317:50 I’m not defending it. I’m just saying the idea of pedaling an ebike when it is out of power is not really a meaningful capability. You are best off calling an uber and throwing it in the back instead of suffering.
By notnmeyer 2025-10-230:42 an emtb with the assist off feels like you’re pedaling out of a black hole.
By Dylan16807 2025-10-231:091 reply Well then the normal ebike should spend another pound to add better gearing.
Once I put myself onto the bike I don't care all that much whether it's 15lb or 50lb.
By skeeter2020 2025-10-234:061 reply >> Once I put myself onto the bike I don't care all that much whether it's 15lb or 50lb.
This is a really dumb thing to say; it makes absolutely no sense. ALso you typically don't "put yourself onto the bike" but rather pedal it.
By Dylan16807 2025-10-235:082 reply If you can't figure out what I mean, maybe don't be so confident it's dumb?
I'm not talking about pedaling, I'm talking about sitting. Because now my weight combines with the bike. The difference between 215 and 250 pounds is not that impactful.
Edit: There are some differences in weight distribution, but I clearly don't mind those because they exist while the bike is powered too. The issue at hand is the pedaling, and that depends on total weight.
By Dylan16807 2025-10-237:37 Reading this back my wording looks a bit contradictory, so to be extra clear: "put yourself onto the bike" is the part that isn't about pedaling. Pedaling comes in later.
By philipallstar 2025-10-2315:241 reply The context is the weight of the bike when it has no battery - i.e. you're going to need to push it. You're not sitting on the bike in that situation.
By Dylan16807 2025-10-2320:12 The comment is about how a normal ebike is bad to ride with a dead battery specifically because of gearing and weight.
As in, if not for those problems you would keep riding and not push it.
So my response is that you should just fix the gearing (or buy one with good gearing), and 50lb isn't an issue for riding.
So both issues are resolved, and you could keep riding a normal design just fine. This means the design of the Rivian is a real detriment.
By eikenberry 2025-10-2222:50 Just don't think of it as an e-bike.. Think of it as an electric scooter with a built-in, manual charging solution. The question then seems to be how well it compares against other electric scooters?
By username223 2025-10-2223:022 reply "E-bikes" are much more efficient than electric cars, but they're just electric scooters with governors at this point, and only called "bikes" for regulatory reasons.
I have a friend who hates any electric bike not "pedal-assist". His opinion is they are electric motorbikes - that happen to have pedals as a backup option, usually not used.
And if anyone said "lets ride motorbikes with pedestrians" they'd be looked at funny.
I'm seeing more near misses each week AND in 20 years I'll be old enough to feel real vulnerable...
Everyone is vulnerable regardless of age. There absolutely need to be regulations around how these ebikes are allowed to go based on their power output.
By _carbyau_ 2025-10-230:56 I ride a motorbike. I'd argue speed is the limiter.
Some of these electric bikes are quite speedy - capable of mixing it up with flowing traffic. So classify them as being motorbikes.
If they can't go that fast, or are "assistive only" (require large fraction of rider pedal input up to a set speed) then legislatively they are a "normal bike".
The thing is, we already have the rules around each style of bike. It's just a classification thing.
Many electric bikes are masquerading and hoping no one looks too closely. So, just look closely. And hold actions responsible.
By tbrownaw 2025-10-232:37 > Everyone is vulnerable regardless of age.
Yes, and people who are slower and more fragile and take longer to heal are more so than others.
By hamdingers 2025-10-231:372 reply Okay but cars first obviously, right? Considering they kill orders of magnitude more people.
By hollerith 2025-10-231:52 Yes, it should be illegal to drive cars on sidewalks, too.
By trollbridge 2025-10-2312:12 E-bikes are shockingly dangerous, although at least the only kill their operators and other pedestrians, unlike cars and trucks which spread the carnage around to everyone.
By xnx 2025-10-2223:49 > based on their power output.
and mass!
Depends which e-bike. Mine is very much a trad bike with a small motor tacked on https://www.savvycycling.co.uk/e-bike-database/e-bike-archiv...
By username223 2025-10-2319:25 You're right -- that's a bike! It would be completely serviceable without the motor (albeit heavy), which I guess is how I define it.
By twodave 2025-10-233:59 It’s got double the range of any e-bike I’ve been around. On a full charge you’ll get very uncomfortable long before you reach half capacity. I think the pedals are only to fit into a certain vehicle category and perhaps to a lesser degree for range-extension. The expectation is that you keep it charged via an outlet.
By pfooti 2025-10-2315:29 While this is true, I've dealt with a sudden battery failure on my old model ebike (a kalkhoff from 2018 or so) and I can tell you that without any motor assist the bike might as well be stationary. It is quite heavy.
By mc32 2025-10-2223:43 Maybe they figure you pedal to charge it up before it’d go again -like a windup torch. It’s energy wasteful but who knows what marketing forced the engineers to do.
By gazook89 2025-10-2314:30 I’d rather electric car companies building bikes than cyber trucks, though they are in the same vanity category.
If I may also peddle my opinion, this e-bike is a fresh innovation and it's easy to see how revolutionary it is. What very competitive market has regen, 180 newton-meter of torque, programmable power curve, shape-shifting? This e-bike is incredible. These days, who lets their iphone battery die?
By makeitdouble 2025-10-2222:183 reply A phone can get charged with random 5V outlets and you can walk around with a 200g battery to make it last two days.
The bike won't fit any of that until there's hot swappable batteries sold everywhere, and when it's dead you'll be pushing it back home.
By ericd 2025-10-2222:41 When it's dead, you can order an UberXL and toss this in the back? Cheaper than a tow truck...
Also, 100 miles is a lot on a bike. I think they got rid of this design requirement by just making the range longer.
You could lean up against something and pedal to get a bit of charge back in the battery, then you just need to pedal it home like a regular dead e-bike, no?
I don't think the pedals are attached to the drivetrain. They look like they are literally just to charge the battery. So this bike is just dead when it's out of batteries? Unless I'm missing something.
I agree with you, but I'm not clear how it relates to what I said. You charge the battery back up slightly by pedaling, and then it's usable again. You just need to pedal hard enough on the way home that you charge it more than it discharges. Though I don't know what the various efficiencies are.
By WD-42 2025-10-275:43 There is no way you can charge an ebike battery by pedaling fast enough for it to actually get you anywhere in a reasonable time.
By Rebelgecko 2025-10-234:32 you can use your phone charger with this one too
Why should we care for "revolutionary" when the design that has been working for centuries is cheap, widely understood and universally available?
> Why should we care for "revolutionary" when the design that has been working for centuries is cheap, widely understood and universally available?
Because some designer wants to feel good about themselves, better than all who came before.
By rglullis 2025-10-2223:34 Horses were not cheap nor universally available. And cars had the obvious benefit that they did not leave literal horse shit around the city.
This "revolutionary design" does not offer any significant advantage over the existing systems for e-bikes. A regular e-bike without power is a just a regular bike. You can adapt a regular bike into an e-bike for < $600. Any run-of-the-mill mechanic can figure out how to work on a basic bike. This one will probably require some "certified Rivian expert" to work on it.
Only irrational neomania can justify being interested in this "revolution".
By nradov 2025-10-2222:15 Wow I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. If so then nicely done. If not then bro do you even bike?
By kridsdale1 2025-10-2221:44 > a pun
Eyyyyyyy
In the next sentence:
"It features a new pedal-by-wire drivetrain called “DreamRide” developed in-house. The rider pedals a generator, which replenishes the battery,"
So uh, keep peddling?
Yes, the motion->electric->motion circuit is not as efficient as direct pedal but you are explicitly not stranded.
By blacksmith_tb 2025-10-2223:297 reply If that worked well though, why pack a large battery in the first place? My suspicion is that pedaling provides a small percentage of the energy needed to move you and the bike and your cargo.
By tree_enjoyer 2025-10-2223:37 A traditional bicycle chain drive is something around 98% efficient - particularly if you're using internally geared hubs or a single speed with the chain line perfectly straight. What's a typical consumer alternator efficiency? Maybe 85%? And then a few steps for losses in the charging circuit and then again at the motor.
Not even napkin math, but ballpark I would think you're looking at having to pedal about 20-25% harder to accelerate the same rate compared to a chain, with no supplemental energy directed towards charging the battery (though I would assume al the energy goes through the power management system anyways).
However you get some gain in that you don't have to select a gear ratio, and that the electric motor provides torque efficiently at any rpm you can realistically expect on a bicycle. If it has an adaptive resistance level it will probably be more work (energy) but for many non-cyclists feel much more intuitive and simple
By seanmcdirmid 2025-10-231:03 I'm pretty sure its regulatory. As long as the rider has to pedal to get the bike going, it isn't classed as a moped with restrictions on being used on trails and such. Yet having pedal power mix with electric assist power is complicated, so this might actually be an economy compromise.
Note that China, who doesn't have the same regulatory burdens we do, they got rid of pedal assisted e-bikes for their own market long ago because they make the unit more expensive and less functional (or you see pedals on some of them, but they are never used, most people use them with throttles only).
I think the idea is to disconnect pedaling from road conditions.
When you’re biking, it’s preferable to pedal in “safe” zones (protected bike lanes, trails etc.) while relying on the battery for eg intersections and when sharing the road with vehicles. With a regular bike you have to pedal harder precisely at these zones which makes it a little scary. You can also pedal on fairly flat ground/use all that energy to climb up a steep hill quickly without pedaling etc.
By andyferris 2025-10-230:103 reply Exactly.
My government says the trigger (accelerator) is bad and made it illegal.
In usage, however, I feel WAY safer being able to accelerate (from standstill) through intersections. I once had a chain break at an inopportune moment while doing that - scary! Now my rear hub motor means there's no danger anymore.
By trollbridge 2025-10-2312:14 The government says my throttle is entirely legal. I just have to get a number plate, insurance cover, and take a riding test and get a licence.
Oh, and it’s a serious crime if I cause an accident and try to flee.
By joncrocks 2025-10-2310:11 Did they make it illegal, or did they say that this now pushes you into the 'powered vehicle' category and the need to meet the requirements that come along with that?
By skeeter2020 2025-10-234:101 reply Wow. I assume you're being serious but it sounds like you shouldn't be on the roads. Stating that a trigger accelerator makes you feel "safer... there's no danger anymore" (not sure when the answer to bicycle safety is going faster...) doesn't help the rest of us.
By Rebelgecko 2025-10-234:31 I kinda agree with them. Being able to accelerate more like a car makes it easier/safer to merge with cars
By refulgentis 2025-10-2223:39 Are you doing a bit? I’m worried I’m about to be the joke ruiner :) The battery is included so you don’t have to pedal. When the battery is out, you can pedal. The only thing I can come up with is you think it is literally impossible or extremely difficult to pedal an e-bike when it is out of battery. it’s not fun but the incremental battery weight is as if you gained 20 lbs, not impossible.
Edit: oh I see above there’s subtle confusion building over the thread that this is a new feature of e-bikes, as of this Rivian marketing. it is not.
By hyperbovine 2025-10-2223:37 Lance Armstrong can sustain about 450 watts. Rec cyclists maybe 1/4 that. E-bike motors are 250-500w. So not a small percentage but also not enough to be sustainable unless you are a world class athlete.
By notnmeyer 2025-10-230:45 charging by pedaling is just for range extension. obviously you aren’t breaking the laws of thermodynamics on an e-bike.
By FuckButtons 2025-10-234:03 It depends on how fast or hilly the area you’re traveling, but either way, that’s kind of the whole point? If it didn’t it would just be a bike.
